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i was reading the thread, and got my thinking what the damn big deal everyone makes out of hard plastics and too much plastic etc, ever been in a BMW??? ALL IT IS IS PLASTIC! Toyota camry is all plastic too, infiniti g35....ALL PLASTIC. Why do american cars get such a bad rap?
 

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Caddy Man said:
i was reading the thread, and got my thinking what the damn big deal everyone makes out of hard plastics and too much plastic etc, ever been in a BMW??? ALL IT IS IS PLASTIC! Toyota camry is all plastic too, infiniti g35....ALL PLASTIC. Why do american cars get such a bad rap?
I think it has alot to do with the look, the feel and the fit of the plastic. No doubt most cars these days are made with plastic, it's durable, cheap, easy to form. It's the finishing touches to the plastic that make the difference, the way it's all put together and how it all appears, differing textures and shapes, feels all comming together in a unified form..

Just look at your CTS for instance, it has 4 different textues/looks that I can think of off the top of my head. The smooth matte of the radio/hvac system, the cross hatch of the dash, the dimpled rubbery plastic under the dash, the criss cross of the door, if you have wood grain there is another texture. Honestly I don't mind it, I think it makes the CTS look high-tech almost computerish, but for many in the luxury market everything has to fit together, with this multitude of un-related textures in the CTS it makes the "plastic" appearance really stand out. No to mention the sharp lines, just take a look at your door! It has lines just as sharp as your headlights, but one "look" at it says, wow, that must be hard and sharp (even if when you push on it you know it's soft and almost rubbery!)

The CTS' interior is edgy just like the exterior, but like many reviewers of the CTS have said, that edginess doesn't work as well inside as it does out, people want smooth, nice to the touch intergrated and luxurious interiors, even if they are plastic :)

 

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I don't get it either. I have no complaints about the interior, other than the stupid analog clock on the cluster (which they've got rid of now anyway). And I agree completely with Caddy Man - my previous car was a '92 BMW 325. Its interior was just as plasticky (not even as nice IMO) and you didn't hear anyone complaining about it.

I think the complaints may be simply because the auto journalists weren't prepared for the CTS. They were expecting an interior similar to what you'd find in other Caddys (which I would never buy).

-GT
 

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I like the interior ... and have no problems with it's fit and finish. I've owned Toyota's, GM's, Fords, and BMW's. I am a new CTS owner and one of the things about the car that attracted me was the sharp lines both inside and out.

"CTS is like Steeley Dan ... you're either a fan or not."
 

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Caddy Man said:
i was reading the thread, and got my thinking what the damn big deal everyone makes out of hard plastics and too much plastic etc, ever been in a BMW??? ALL IT IS IS PLASTIC! Toyota camry is all plastic too, infiniti g35....ALL PLASTIC. Why do american cars get such a bad rap?
Cadillac interiors are alot cheaper than its German rivals... Yes indeed, many of us have been in BMW's before, probably many people here have owned them... their interiors are superior to Cadillacs, they are all 'soft to the touch' plastics and rubber, that are supple looking and have consistant textures. The interior of the CTS isn't too bad in my opinion when compared to Lincoln and Chryslers 300C. Both of those interiors LOOK nicer to the eye, but are full of rock hard plastic panels and look-alike wood textures, that are immediately evident once you sit in the cars. It's a simple fact that the Germans do the best interiors, followed by the English and Japanese. Drive a 3 year old German car and see how many rattles you hear....next to none! An american car is rattles abound after 3 years.
 

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The interior of the CTS turns me off. I like warm, comfortable appearing interiors. I loved the interior of the most-recent Eldorado and the Seville STS.. The DeVille DTS.. Those were my kind of cars. The CTS is too mechanical looking inside. That's just MY opinion, though.. I like the woodgrain and the warm, supple look of that Lexus IS up there. That's just what I like. It reminds me more of what *I* am used to seeing in a Cadillac (of years ago). The new Escalade interior is right on the money. Of course, differnet people have different opinions...
 

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haute_heir said:
Cadillac interiors are alot cheaper than its German rivals... Yes indeed, many of us have been in BMW's before, probably many people here have owned them... their interiors are superior to Cadillacs, they are all 'soft to the touch' plastics and rubber, that are supple looking and have consistant textures. The interior of the CTS isn't too bad in my opinion when compared to Lincoln and Chryslers 300C. Both of those interiors LOOK nicer to the eye, but are full of rock hard plastic panels and look-alike wood textures, that are immediately evident once you sit in the cars. It's a simple fact that the Germans do the best interiors, followed by the English and Japanese. Drive a 3 year old German car and see how many rattles you hear....next to none! An american car is rattles abound after 3 years.
I get what your saying, but i disagree with germans doing the best interiors. They engineer good cars, hence no rattles, but thier interiors are also very plasticy and very cold feeling. Ive sat in countless BMW's and Mercedes. I think japanese interiors are very soft and supple and the English defintly hold it down. Jaguar interiors (mostly on the XJ) are very warm and inviting, with wood everywhere, and lambskin carpets etc.
 

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Caddy Man said:
I get what your saying, but i disagree with germans doing the best interiors. They engineer good cars, hence no rattles, but thier interiors are also very plasticy and very cold feeling. Ive sat in countless BMW's and Mercedes. I think japanese interiors are very soft and supple and the English defintly hold it down. Jaguar interiors (mostly on the XJ) are very warm and inviting, with wood everywhere, and lambskin carpets etc.
the English have very attractive interiors no doubt. The Italians do as well, but they lack in durability and often the leather bubbles the wood cracks and things fall apart after a short period of time. The Germans have the best engineering, this includes interior engineering for ergonomics, etc... Everything in a german car, is right where it ought to be. There is no fiddling around with controls in their car (exception of the STUPID i-drive system). Their interiors are layed out very pleasantly, Mercedes and BMW interiors last very well, and the plastics and rubber are of higher grade. Everything is soft to the touch, everything looks nice and fits perfect. The sofness of their materials prevents creaks and rattles, unlike hard plastics which only make noises more evident in American cars. Bottom line is, the interior of the CTS looks State of the art, I thinks its an ok looking interior, it could be a little richer feeling by redoing the textures and softening up the interior feel a bit (literally).
 

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haute_heir said:
the English have very attractive interiors no doubt. The Italians do as well, but they lack in durability and often the leather bubbles the wood cracks and things fall apart after a short period of time. The Germans have the best engineering, this includes interior engineering for ergonomics, etc... Everything in a german car, is right where it ought to be. There is no fiddling around with controls in their car (exception of the STUPID i-drive system). Their interiors are layed out very pleasantly, Mercedes and BMW interiors last very well, and the plastics and rubber are of higher grade. Everything is soft to the touch, everything looks nice and fits perfect. The sofness of their materials prevents creaks and rattles, unlike hard plastics which only make noises more evident in American cars. Bottom line is, the interior of the CTS looks State of the art, I thinks its an ok looking interior, it could be a little richer feeling by redoing the textures and softening up the interior feel a bit (literally).
now i agree with this ...other thing ive noticed is, lexus interiors do not seem to age well. My dad has a 98 S 320, and even though the materials are high quality, the seats arent buttery soft like in lexus. German cars generally have higher toughness of materials if you know what I mean. I have amny freinds whos parents own lexus, and those interiors are so soft and buttery, they dont last well at all and looks terrible after several years.
 

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haute_heir said:
the English have very attractive interiors no doubt. The Italians do as well, but they lack in durability and often the leather bubbles the wood cracks and things fall apart after a short period of time. The Germans have the best engineering, this includes interior engineering for ergonomics, etc... Everything in a german car, is right where it ought to be. There is no fiddling around with controls in their car (exception of the STUPID i-drive system). Their interiors are layed out very pleasantly, Mercedes and BMW interiors last very well, and the plastics and rubber are of higher grade. Everything is soft to the touch, everything looks nice and fits perfect. The sofness of their materials prevents creaks and rattles, unlike hard plastics which only make noises more evident in American cars. Bottom line is, the interior of the CTS looks State of the art, I thinks its an ok looking interior, it could be a little richer feeling by redoing the textures and softening up the interior feel a bit (literally).
I'm not so sure about them having the best engineering. I owned a '92 325 until buying the 2003 CTS (so about 12-13 years). Prior to that I've driven mostly GM (Grand Am, Grand Prix STE). I loved the BMW, but it amazed me how so many people pointed to that card as the benchmark and drooled over it. Their engineering had just as many faults as other cars. For example, virtually every window switch in the car ended up being replaced (first the light would burn out, then a little while later it would stop working). I took one apart to see why they were failing and couldn't believe how mechanically complex they were for such a simple part (they were expensive to replace also). Ahhh, superior German engineering. While I'm sure it happens, I've never had a window switch fail on a GM car. Every part that I would expect to need replacing on the BMW needed to be replaced - it was no more durable than the GMs I've owned. The parts were considerably more expensive, though. Perhaps better engineering doesn't equate to higher durability, but one would have hoped it did.

And let's not forget that one of the biggest problem areas of the CTS is the differential whine from the German differential. Hmmm ... (that's me thinking :hmm:, it's not the sound of the diff whine)

-GT
 

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HEy, last year, JD Power rated both Buick and Cadillac in the top 5 in terms or reliability and number of problems. But apparently, GM vehicles fall apart and don't last....
 

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AznPrydeRegalRyde said:
HEy, last year, JD Power rated both Buick and Cadillac in the top 5 in terms or reliability and number of problems. But apparently, GM vehicles fall apart and don't last....
I always tend to doubt "Reliability" rankings. Traditional Buick and Cadillac owners never really beat on their cars mecahnically, how often do you see your grandma flooring her 1999 Park Avenue or 2000 Cadillac DeVille?

I think if one looked, you'd find that cars that aren't abused by thier demographical owners tend to report less problems.

Not that this is an excuse mind you, a car should perform reliably if you drive it hard or not. But I tend to think about that when I look at the ratings. Assuming GM knows this, then we must be building some high quality CTS' (aside from rear-end differentials)

I'm very excited to see the long term reliability rankings for the CTS as this is one of the first Cadillacs in a long time which has a younger more "excitable" driving demographic :cool:
 

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AsAkAs said:
I always tend to doubt "Reliability" rankings. Traditional Buick and Cadillac owners never really beat on their cars mecahnically, how often do you see your grandma flooring her 1999 Park Avenue or 2000 Cadillac DeVille?

I think if one looked, you'd find that cars that aren't abused by thier demographical owners tend to report less problems.

Not that this is an excuse mind you, a car should perform reliably if you drive it hard or not. But I tend to think about that when I look at the ratings. Assuming GM knows this, then we must be building some high quality CTS' (aside from rear-end differentials)

I'm very excited to see the long term reliability rankings for the CTS as this is one of the first Cadillacs in a long time which has a younger more "excitable" driving demographic :cool:
Yeah, i never thought about it that way. I can defeinitely see that.

I was also thinking about MErcedes finishing so low. Is it possible that high-end car owners report MORE problems because they demand a higher level of quality? For example, my cupholder broke in my Regal very early on. I didn't end up replacing it until the first time it went in. And I didn't even mention it, they just saw it and fixed it. Chances are, I wouldn't have bothered to mention it.

Now if it was an S600, I think i'd report a thread coming undone in the leather stitching.

I think JD Power should break down which problems and how severe.
 

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I dont think BMW interiors are cold. VOLVO interiors and SAAB interiors are dark and cold, but go together well.

German interiors, BMW included, are PURPOSE BUILT and designed to enhance the driving experience as much as the internal appeal of the car. All of my BMWs always smelled terrific, had no tears or rips in the leather and took the abuse I gave them without so much as a peep. My Cadillac STS interior was not so forgiving and was dirty, dingy and rattly after a month of owning it. The switchplate on the seat cracked and broke off, the top part of the dash was coming up and while it tried hard to be a soft interior, it almost tried too hard and none of the pieces fit together too terribly well because nothing had firmness behind it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
AznPrydeRegalRyde said:
Yeah, i never thought about it that way. I can defeinitely see that.

I was also thinking about MErcedes finishing so low. Is it possible that high-end car owners report MORE problems because they demand a higher level of quality? For example, my cupholder broke in my Regal very early on. I didn't end up replacing it until the first time it went in. And I didn't even mention it, they just saw it and fixed it. Chances are, I wouldn't have bothered to mention it.

Now if it was an S600, I think i'd report a thread coming undone in the leather stitching.

I think JD Power should break down which problems and how severe.
I think they can, if the company (such as GM or Toyota) wants to pay for the more detailed information, on the surface it looks good, but as you said, it would be nice if we could get more details.

As for high-end luxury drivers demanding more perfection out of thier cars i'd say you're right, and this level of precision is carried over into the cars, when something goes wrong on a 76,000 dollar car like the XLR people are up in arms, they expect it to be perfect (just hop over to that forum to hear them all freak out)

My first car was a 1984 Ford LTD Wagon, my second a 97 mustang who's trasmission blew out, my third a great 2000 pontiac grand prix, and now my Cadillac CTS. Each step of the way I paid more and more for my car and each car has it's own special nuisances or problems the funny thing is I think every car does, when you put together a machine as complex as a car it's bound to have something break over the course of it's life. The rust on my LTD, the transmission failure of the Mustang the WOT shudder of my grand prix and the CD changer gong crazy every now and then when I step into my CTS.

I just say it adds flavor, I think all you can do is take the good with the bad and enjoy one's car for all it's "98 problems per 1000 customers" or however J.D and Power goes about rating things.

Yes, I expect alot out of my cadillac but no car is perfect. In fact I dare anyone to find me one that is. :p

Edit: Sorry for the rant, i just got out of an argument regarding toyota's "superior" reliability with a friend i'm all fired up! :D
 
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