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Discussion Starter #1
Guys- Figured you would get a good laugh and a cry out of this one.

I was traveling down the freeway last night and was merging into an exit lane (2 lanes wide, exit only.) As I was centered over the line, there was a 3 foot tall cone in the road on its side directly centered with the front of the car. I swerved to the right to avoid it and clipped the cone about 3 in on the bumper and dragged it about 40 feet while I was regaining control (stability, TC saved my butt. The backend was @ about 45 degrees from straigt and there was a cement wall where the shoulder would have been at that point.) It took me another 50-100 feet to recover and pull over. I poped OnStar and had them run a diag to make sure it was driveable. The confirmed everything showed up ok, so I grabbed my flashlight and surveyed the damage really quick. The cone nailed the bumper/foglight assembly. I would have missed the cone if I made it another 3 inches to the right. :-( Oddly - the foglight and everything to the rubber on the front driver tire was GONE. Yes - the light itself, the brake ducting, the inside of the wheel well GONE. I can see the rubber/platic burned on the tire tread straight through where the light assembly should be. :bigroll: The only thing left is the dangling connector which oddly is well preserved.

Part 2. The arse ram gets another wind and goes for the glory. I decided to roll back around and see the damage over the road firsthand/gather evidence. So I hopped on the exit road, back onto the freeway in the opposite direction to make a U turn again. *Set the scene* The onramp is 1 lane wide, and has a row of bushes between you and the freeway up until the lane dies into the first lane of traffic. Your best luck at merging is to watch for headlights on the road because you can't see crap before the lane just juts into traffic.
So here is me, pissed about the cone and paranoid that something is up with the suspension. Right when I hit the end of the bush wall, there is a car directly lined up with mine to the left of me. Brake or punch the gas? Previous braking 5 min earlier led to loss of control. Hrm- punch it. Well, I got ahead of the car and downshifted to drop some speed. Just then, blue and red lights.... Yup, I just have the best timing in the world.
I pull over and explain what just happened and *why* I punched the gas. One of us HAD to brake or punch it, or else we would have been in an accident. The first words out of his mouth - I was just called to pick up the cone that you mentioned, and I understand what happened. But YOU should have braked and YOU were speeding.
Now - when the lights flashed, I was doing 86. I don't deny that. The officer contended that he was doing 80 and that I *MUST* have been doing at least 100MPH, so he wrote me up for 90PHM in a 65. FURTHUR, I asked him for the incident number for the cone in the road as proof and his response was this:
If I give you the incident number, I am going to add 2 points to your record. One for Excessive speed exhibition and one for wreckless driving. Its your choice if you want the extra tickets.

I am one of those type of people - it takes A LOT to piss me off. Man, this cop hit my buttons just right. I wasn't arguing - I stated the facts and left no emotion in my explainations. I was being 100% respectful and warranted NO negative responses.

Despite all of his crap and attitude, I am not going to persue any legal action against him. Karma will bite him in the arse 10X someday. BUT. I am curious - how would you guys fight this? 90MPH is 25 MPH over the limit, so I cannot go to traffic school. My insurance is already going to go up because of the cone, I cannot afford to have a ticket on my license.

I was thinking 1 of 2 things-
1. Plead not guilty, and push the court date back a few times to lessen the chance that the officer will show up. When he does, fight tooth and nail - request proof of survey for the road, request proof of calibration for speed on the cruiser. If he doesn't have it onhand, the judge will dismiss the case.

2. Please no contest and plead to the judge to have traffic school, warrented by the situation. (the visibility due to the bushes, short merge, and lining up for a second accident in 5 min... what would you have done?)

I also consulted my attourney who thinks 99% that he can get me out of it, but will cost $1400 + fees. The ticket will be around $350-$400 plus traffic school @ $30. Plus my $500 deductible.

My poor arse hurst and my V is a mess. :mad:
 

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The way I tend to look at it is this...

You were speeding, and you got caught... This isnt a bad thing because most of us do it alot... Especially me.

1400.00 is really a small price to pay to keep your D.L in good standing for that really bad ticket that is someday alsmost surely going to come. Pay it and sum it up as cost of doing business in your V.
 

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2012 CTS-V Sedan, 2011 CTS Coupe, 2010 Ford Raptor
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Sorry to hear about your luck!
When I got my reckless driving ticket for the 142 in a 70 I plead not guilty. I have my first court date on the 25th of this month. Luckily since it was out of state they will let me have it over the phone. I'm going to say I'm sorry and that I know what I did was wrong and hope for a reduction to excessive speeding or hope to go on 1 year probation. A drop in the $910 fine would be cool too.
I would tell u to plead NG and push it back. It will give you more time to think about whether or not you want to get a lawyer or have any other options.
Just my $0.02
Good luck!
 

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just my 2 cents worth... got stopped twice for speeding in my camaro ss, 1st time 110 in a 55 and another 105 in a 70, got driving school both times, because i explained that i drove a company vehicle for a living and i knew i was wrong in driving that fast but a ticket on my record at that speed could cause the loss of my job..... dont know what you do for a living,,but a company vehicle story might help the driving school idea,
 

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If it's any consolation.. i just got back from court today for doing 94 in a 65 (on 66E) in Fauquier county... waited almost 3 hours before i stood in front of the judge.. but i pleaded guilty and talked the judge down to $250 fine and thats it... he said other judges would have sentenced me to one night in jail for each mile per hour over 90 along with 500-1000 fine and driving school... he was in a good mood and i got lucky! :alchi:
 

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The officer admitted to speeding 15+ mph and concluded that you were speeding because you passed him as you were speeding. ANY lawyer can get you out of that ticket. He was breaking the law just as you were. At no time can an officer break the speedlimit without his lights on. Delay the court date as long as you can and find a cheaper lawyer. I've gotten out of 4 reckless tickets and i'm positive you can fight this one!
 

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If it's any consolation.. i just got back from court today for doing 94 in a 65 (on 66E) in Fauquier county... waited almost 3 hours before i stood in front of the judge.. but i pleaded guilty and talked the judge down to $250 fine and thats it... he said other judges would have sentenced me to one night in jail for each mile per hour over 90 along with 500-1000 fine and driving school... he was in a good mood and i got lucky! :alchi:
Dont say that!!!! Not cool! Now I'm nervous for my day.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The officer admitted to speeding 15+ mph and concluded that you were speeding because you passed him as you were speeding. ANY lawyer can get you out of that ticket. He was breaking the law just as you were. At no time can an officer break the speedlimit without his lights on. Delay the court date as long as you can and find a cheaper lawyer. I've gotten out of 4 reckless tickets and i'm positive you can fight this one!
:worship:
First ray of sunshine I saw come out of the clouds. Any clue if there was a previous trial I can reference for precidence? I hear karma coming :stirpot:
 

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The officer admitted to speeding 15+ mph and concluded that you were speeding because you passed him as you were speeding. ANY lawyer can get you out of that ticket. He was breaking the law just as you were. At no time can an officer break the speedlimit without his lights on. Delay the court date as long as you can and find a cheaper lawyer. I've gotten out of 4 reckless tickets and i'm positive you can fight this one!
Good luck going to war with this one, but...
 

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What's traffic/driving school? says the guy from Maryland..

Go with the lawyer and protect your license. Who knows what will happen in the future? i.e., you could end up suspended or in jail if you get tagged with something again.
 

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Can you not get the incident number from Onstar? As they're probably the ones who called the cops to the scene anyway. If nothing else you can get the call to onstar as proof.
 

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The officer admitted to speeding 15+ mph and concluded that you were speeding because you passed him as you were speeding. ANY lawyer can get you out of that ticket. He was breaking the law just as you were. At no time can an officer break the speedlimit without his lights on. Delay the court date as long as you can and find a cheaper lawyer. I've gotten out of 4 reckless tickets and i'm positive you can fight this one!
PONDO...Tisk Tisk. You speak of that which you do not know. Police are not required to run with Lights and sirens. It is at their discretion or departmental policy. There are many calls that require police to run with lights off.
 

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PONDO...Tisk Tisk. You speak of that which you do not know. Police are not required to run with Lights and sirens. It is at their discretion or departmental policy. There are many calls that require police to run with lights off.
Like attempting to chase down a V on I-40 in the middle of the night in BFE! I would have loved to see the lights a bit earlier...like around 90mph!
 

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My advice would be to make sure your lawyer actually specializes in traffic law before using him. There are lawyers in every area that specialize specifically in traffic law. I've fought a TON of tickets (When I was younger and stupider I actually maxed out the "step" insurance system at 35!) and I can't tell you how many times I've been in court and seen regular lawyers try to fight speeding tickets and fail miserably. There are particular laws a good lawyer can exploit in each region, and a specialist will know them and a regular lawyer won't. They don't always work, cuz if a particular judge wants to nail your ass they will - sometimes there's nothing you can do about it. But if a judge plays by the rules, there *are* nice loopholes that a specialist lawyer will know. Like for instance, where I live an officer has 6 business days to file the ticket with the merit ratings board, otherwise it's not admisable as evidence and you can file a motion for dismissal that you bring up before the cop even testifies! Filing a written motion for dismissal (not a finding of "not responsible", which means you're not guilty, but an actual dismissal because there isn't a ticket cuz it wasn't filed according to the law!) throws everyone off balance - the judge, the officer... everyone. I read through the state laws in my area for hours and hours before I found that loophole, and it was nowhere near the chapter on the actual speed law since it's more of an administrative law, so you may have to do some heavy-duty research, but it might be worth it! I got out of 105 in a 65 using that defense and it worked like a charm. Then tried it again in the same state in what was basically a kangaroo court, minority woman judge and woman state trooper - no male was getting out of that courtroom alive! They wouldn't even let me file the motion or make objections! Unfortunately alot depends on what judge you get - they are the master of that courtroom and for the most part can do whatever the hell they want, even taking away things like your ability to object or cross examine the witness for the prosecution (officer) which you would think are just assumed rights...

The National Motorist Association used to have a good brief on things you can try in court, and I've had some success with some of them. The only one I would really recommend is if the officer starts testifying by reading off the ticket, as soon as they start reading, completely cut them off and say to the judge "Objection Your Honor, the witness for the prosecution seems to be reading from a document instead of testifying from independant recollection" and see what they do. Some judges will just tell you to shut the hell up because it's not your turn yet, but theoretically since you are really playing your own legal counsel, you have the right to object if a witness (the cop) is doing something wrong, and legally speaking they are supposed to be testifying from memory and not reading a script. The reason you do this is to put the cop off balance since they do this a hundred times a week and always just read off the paper. If the judge upholds the objection, they will probably tell the cop they can read the document (ticket) to "refresh their recollection", but you'll already have thrown the cop off balance, and he might forget to cover certain aspects of his script that are necessary for a finding of "responsible" or "guilty" on the speeding charge. For example (again - where I live) there are theoretically three parts to the law on speeding that the cop needs to establish for a finding of "responsible". I don't remember exactly what they are (you would print it out and bring it with you on the day of your trial) but it's something like they have to establish that it was YOU driving the car, they need to establish that you were exceeding the posted speed limit, and they need to establish that they saw you exceeding that speed limit for a certain distance. So for instance on that third one if you saw the cop and slowed down before you had exceeded the speed limit for the minimum distance in the law, then theoretically at the end of your testimony you could ask for a finding of "not responsible" because you didn't travel the minimum distance over the posted speed limit. (I think it's a quarter mile for a divided highway where I live but I'd have to check)
So if you were cross examining the cop, you might show him a picture of where he pulled you over and ask him if that's exactly where he pulled you over, then provide some sort of "certified" measurement of the distance from when he could have first seen you (the end of the exit) and where first turned on his lights. If that's less than the distance he needs to see you speeding, then you might have an out.
So my point is - it's worth reading all the actual laws, and look for loopholes in there, and ways think of what the cop is going to have to establish to get you, and then see if you can provide proof that he didn't establish that stuff.
Chances are the judge won't really know the exact specifics of the law, so have a couple copies of the law with you so you can give him one and cite it exactly as it's worded in the offical books. They hear hundreds of un-prepared people every week, just sheep getting processed through the money-making machine, so you're going to surprise them! In fact, when I got out of that 105mph ticket, the cop afterwards came up to me and said he was really impressed and hadn't seen a regular person do that before!

If you file motions, bring a couple copies of that too, because the judge will probably ask you to give the cop a copy of it, and might want one for himself, but you'll also have to VERBALLY ask the judge to hear the motion, which means you need a copy for yourself. :)

Good luck man - I feel for you!

-B
 

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PONDO...Tisk Tisk. You speak of that which you do not know. Police are not required to run with Lights and sirens. It is at their discretion or departmental policy. There are many calls that require police to run with lights off.
That is true. However, the office's speed created a situation that required DarkMatter to react they way he did. Just thinking out load... DarkMatter may thought they would not collide because he assumed the approaching car (the officer) was doing the speed limit. Suddenly, DarkMatter realizes the approaching vehicle is going much faster, and now it is to late to slow down... and accelerates to avoid a collision.

Like I said... just thinking out load.

While it is true that police can run silent, they are still required to use lights/horn when approaching intersections (or slow down for them). Imagine what would happen if they ran silent through an intersection, not giving other drivers any warning.
 

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That sucks. I hope the best for you.
 

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While it is true that police can run silent, they are still required to use lights/horn when approaching intersections (or slow down for them). Imagine what would happen if they ran silent through an intersection, not giving other drivers any warning.
Here's a case to stimulate your imagination.

http://cbs3.com/capemay/local_story_152184512.html

It caused quite a ruckus in NJ, and the media and talk radio were all over it. Cop runs stop sign at high rate of speed and no lights and kills a couple of teenage girls. Cop indicates he was chasing suspect (no lights), but eyewitnesses said his was the only car to go through the intersection.
I believe the story hasn't reached its conclusion, and the battle lines are drawn between law enforcement supporters and those who sympathize with the victim.

Whisler, consider yourself lucky that you and cop didn't collide at those speeds. The media would be making you out to be Jesse James running from the bank robbery...

Brian R.
 
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