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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry. Just an attention getter. It worked. As a possible new CTS-V owner, I am hoping ya'll would answer a few questions for me.

I am a current generation BMW M5 owner and a Vette owner. My '08 M5 lease is up Oct. 1 and I need to start planning soon. I have driven both the AUTO and 6-SP manual CTS-Vs. I really like this car and am serious about changing my daily-driver for the first time in 10 years! I would have looked at the Audi RS6, but it is not USA-bound. The M3 is totally eaten for lunch by the V and might be a bit too small for me. The IIHS crash tests are good all the way around on the CTS, which is comforting.

I am inclined to go for the stick for maximum input, driveability and FUN. The SMG-III in the BMW has its issues and quirks and has been abandoned by BMW for the DCT in later models including the new M3 and upcoming M5. I am currently driving my 6th M5 and second E60 (current generation). If I get another M5 in October, it's the last model year of the current body style as the new 5er will be out in Spring '10, with the nextgen M to follow in 12-18 months. I think am ready for at least a two year change. My questions are:

1) Any idea if the 6 speed manual will hurt me on resale?

2) Does the 6-speed manual have the 1-4 skip-shift?

3) I am used to a heavier steering feel on BMW. Do you think in time I can accept the lighter more "pivoting" steering feel on the V? It doesn't seem like the suspension button changes steering feel.

4) What actually detunes this engine from my 638 horses
in my ZR1? And can it be retuned?

5) Any word on the competition brakes option (J63) for 2010?

6) The fit, finish and interior materials are better on the M5, but the Bimmer is $28k more.

7) Any M guys care to comment on the driving experience changes that I might notice? Pro and con. How about comfort and materials quality?

8) On the track, anyone boil the brake fluid? Brake fade?

8) All and any input is appreciated on a fantastic offering from Caddy.

Thanks in advance.

C6ZR1
 

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wow a lot of questions that i dont have the answer for. other than my buddy has an E60 M5 and he drove my V and his response was WOW.

thats all i can input.

sorry
ab
 

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'09 CTS-V Clack 6psd (manual), Recaro, Loaded...
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381 Posts
I'll try to answer a few.

Skip shift.. Yes it's there, but I have never actually noticed it. It is not nearly as intrusive as it was on my Fbody, ZR1 or Z06s.

6MT: I'm hoping that it helps my resale due to rarity but I will be shopping to a narrower group of people looking for manual. If you already own a ZR1 then you might be happier with the auto for a DD

Heavier steering feel: This happens with the TC (when set to competition mode). Its much better IMO.

Engine De-tune from ZR1: Forged pistons and different valves, different blower (1.9L vs 2.3L) and different IC (single brick vs. dual), different tuning.

I'll let someone else answer the rest.
 

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1) Any idea if the 6 speed manual will hurt me on resale?
To early to know. It's according to what the market gravitates towards.
2) Does the 6-speed manual have the 1-4 skip-shift?
Yes... but being a Vette owner U should certainly know about the CAGs Eliminator.

3) I am used to a heavier steering feel on BMW. Do you think in time I can accept the lighter more "pivoting" steering feel on the V? It doesn't seem like the suspension button changes steering feel.
Up to U. Are U pen to change? The car is unbelievable, and every drive Ive had in the M5 or M6 suggests that the Cadillac is at least 20% a better car

4) What actually detunes this engine from my 638 horses
in my ZR1? And can it be retuned?
The CTS-V runs a slightly lower compression ratio of 9.0:1 and the LSA engine doesn't have titanium rods and intake valves like the ZR1's engine. The LS9 uses forged pistons, while the LSA uses cast ones. The Intercooler of the V is a single on while the ZR1 has a double. Lastly, the LSA (CTS-V) has a wet sump set-up instead of the ZR1's dry sump.

5) Any word on the competition brakes option (J63) for 2010?
Don't know


6) The fit, finish and interior materials are better on the M5, but the Bimmer is $28k more.
Just can't see it. Perhaps it's because the BMW interiors these days look about as inspired as a Heroin Addict who has just had his "Fix."

The CTS... in fact all Cadillac interiors of late and future are so well designed I easily put them ahead of almost every luxo maker with exception to maaaaaybe Audi.


7) Any M guys care to comment on the driving experience changes that I might notice? Pro and con. How about comfort and materials quality?
No Comment

8) On the track, anyone boil the brake fluid? Brake fade?
None IMO. The Brakes hold up better in fact than the $30K more expensive M5/M6 despite the slight weight advantages.


8) All and any input is appreciated on a fantastic offering from Caddy.

I will assume U love the ZR1. I have a Z51 and wouldn't trade it for a 599GTB for more than the 3 days outta the year the Ferrari wouldn't be in the shop.

The CTS-V is a 4seat ZR1 with less noise, and more comfort:sneaky:
 

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2009 CTS-V , 2010 SRX 2.8T
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as a 6spd stick owner i can tell you that there is not 1 single owner of the V that bought it in manual that has regretted it. Thats how good the manual shift/clutch is on the V
 

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2017 ATS-V Sedan, Vector Blue/Black, 6MT
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I think I can help with some questions.

As far as resale goes, it's too early to say. Some of us will only drive sticks, and since they are much rarer, it may help retain resale. Or maybe not. In consolation, the purchase price is $1300 cheaper due to decreased gas guzzler tax. The mileage should be a bit better, saving more money. Plus, I bet the stick may be more durable, given that it doesn't need a transmission temperature gauge or a speed limiter. The Tremec is very similar to the one in the ZR-1.

I have a 1993 M5 also, and I feel that the steering is better on the V, with more feel. I haven't driven the latest M5 (no desire, sorry), but I just love the steering.

I know the manual says the car has skip shift, but no matter what I do, it has not kicked in even once! I've purposely tried to engage it, but I can't get it to work. This leads me to believe it's not there. My car has a build date of 3/09.

I'm not sure of the brake situation on the V, but for the street they're great. Most BMW M brakes have had to be modified to survive track use in my experience, so this is kind of a draw.

While the materials may not be quite as nice as some on the BMW, the overall effect is still very upscale, and in my opinion better looking and laid out. I loved the ergonomics on my '93, but current BMW's are ergonomic disasters IMO. The Cadillac's ergonomics are far superior, if not perfect. It's especially great that there is no I-drive, and I wouldn't miss the annoying and needlessly tricky turn signal stalks, either. I love my (optional with Recaros only) microfiber wheel, too.

Some other advantages over the M5 include less understeer (and more power oversteer), and generalized civility and ability to putter around in without complaint, unlike most M cars which are more high-strung and unhappy at low speeds, The ride is particularly amazing, being very firm and full of feel, then just gliding over the bad stuff without any kick or harshness. Magneride rocks! The G-meter is seriously cool, as are the tracers on the tach and speedo. Lastly, you can buy a stripped 128i for the price difference, and current M5 resale values are none too good, unlike my '93, which kept up for a while like 911s. And, it's made in America!
 

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Ordered CTS V - ordered 03/13 delivered 06/24!
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#5) I understand that the brakes could be 6 - 8 months away. That's what I was told when I inquired.

BTW, I would never buy a car for resale, buy what you like! Chances are others will like it as well.
 

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2009 CTS-V Radiant Silver/Ebony Auto
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I'll chime in- current ctvs, Porsche 997s- former (2) m3's, 550i auto,Z06, etc...for the money best car I HAVE EVER OWNED! Steering is only complaint wish it was a little stiffer but it isn't any lighter than my 2008 M3 was. As far as build quality if you have been on BMW forums I spent 2 months shoving tennis balls under my rear deck per fix to eliminate rattle so I personally don't want to hear about build quality BECAUSE THIS CAR LIKE THE NEWER VETTES ARE ON A DIFFERENT PLANE IMHO. So steering heaviness my only complaint. Resale- you know what the used BMW market is like right know! They are probably taking a bath on that M5 you are turning in. Resale on V- my advice take care of it, keep it because it will be the last of a dying breed.
And as others have said, 2-3000 dollars and your in ZR1 hp territory- Jesse/WFM tune for 2-300 bucks is amazing and safe

way to grab forums attention!

I'm sure 6-speed manual is fun, but as DD auto with Jesses tune is a blast
 

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As a current E60 M5 owner, as well as a '09 CTS-V owner, I can offer you the following thoughts with respect to your questions between the 2 cars:

Steering feel: Yes, there is a lot more feedback in the M5 steering. The CTS-V competition mode adds a little more weight to the steering, but not necessarily more feel. However, the V tracks every bit as well (or better) than the M5 in turns and you do get used to placing the car in corners despite the lighter steering. Also, the magnetic shocks in the V have a better ride compliance, while providing handling equal to the M5's electronic damping (maybe not a completely fair comparison because I have 20" wheels and H&R springs on the M5, but I have a feeling this would bear out stock vs stock also). As a daily driver, I much prefer the V.

Interior/ overall fit and finish: I really like the interior of the V. I do have a really bad right rear door rattle and one or two in other places since day one in the V, whereas I still don't have any in the M5 (and it was one of the first cars, delivered in Oct of 2005). The convenience features (especially the Nav and harddrive) are great in the V. I have 2 places on my V where the paint was not applied correctly, but they are not bad enough for me to do anything about. I have a tough time justifying an extra $30K for the M5 just to correct these few little issues. Overall, you will find the V a very nice environment to play in!!!

Driving experience: It is taking me awhile to adjust to the supercharged LSA engine in the V. After driving the M5 for 3+ years, I have become very accustomed to the immediate throttle response of the NA V10 motor. I find it easier to modulate and control at the track. You have to get used to the 1 second lag with the V after you have summoned the power with your right foot. Once the LSA comes on boost, it feels like you just lit one of the rockets on the space shuttle. You have to be aware of all of that power when you exit corners on the track. The V is my daily driver. I use the M5 on the weekends mostly, and for spirited drives with a motor club we have here in Atlanta. I have Eisenmann Race exhaust on the M5, so it is a little much to use it during the work week when you have to talk on the phone (everyone always comments "How fast are you driving?", or, "Who are you racing?"--even when I am only gently accelerating or going 30mph!!!). I personally like the SMG III, but for a daily driver (Atlanta traffic) I needed an Auto, so that is what I have in the V. If this were not a daily driver, I would have bought the 6 sp man.

Bottom line: GET THE CTS-V!! You will not regret it!! And I will see you in the fall of 2012 in the our F10's.
 

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Lastly, you can buy a stripped 128i for the price difference, and current M5 resale values are none too good, unlike my '93, which kept up for a while like 911s. And, it's made in America!


Shoot.. U can buy a BRAND NEW Camaro SS for the price difference and 2 Iconic Cars in your garage with over 400HP. :bouncy:
 

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Cadillac 2009 CTS-V Radiant Silver
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Shoot.. U can buy a BRAND NEW Camaro SS for the price difference and 2 Iconic Cars in your garage with over 400HP. :bouncy:
*8888888888888888888888888888888888

There are two SS camaro

you wanted the SS or 2SS
 

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lol you should see how all the bmw owners are going crazy on their board now that motortrend has stated that the new m3 is the best car in the world.....LOL, i just posted that hasn't motortrend always been swinging on the m's nutz ??
 

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There are two SS camaro

you wanted the SS or 2SS

I'm gonna have to go with the Manual 426HP version in that situation.

That's crazy huh???:confused:

I find it hard to believe that I can get a 2 ZR1s for the price of 1 599GTB, but at least it would be exotic. But there is simply no reason why the BMW M5, as plain, and "common" as it is, offering less performance than the CTS-V, should cost so much more than the V that I could go get a $30K Camaro with 426HP with the difference.:bigroll:
 

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'09 CTS-V, 3K miles & '87 Turbo Buick, 29K miles
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Part of the reason might be that they never had to compete with a 556 HP Caddy up until '09. If the Caddy CTS-V stays in business for a few years, it might help level the playing field a little in that area. Previously, if you wanted some HP along with some luxury, you only had primarily BMW & MB to contend with.
 

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I will be succinct. I traded the current gen M5 on an 09 V. The V is better in nearly all respects. Maybe the M had a slightly nicer interior but not enough to matter. Of my 3 current "fun" cars the V seems almost on a par power wise with my 06 SRT Viper Coupe but slow compared to my 09 Viper Vert.

Of the 4 cars including M if I had to go for a long drive it is the V for me.
 

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But there is simply no reason why the BMW M5, as plain, and "common" as it is, offering less performance than the CTS-V, should cost so much more than the V that I could go get a $30K Camaro with 426HP with the difference.:bigroll:

How much of that extra price is bundled up in import taxes? I've heard the CTS-V costs more than a new M5 in Europe.
 

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Regarding the Camaro. I absolutely love cars, and in no way am I biased one way or the other about any particular brand, but...

I got the see a Camaro at an auto show and I was VERY disappointed. Mind you, I haven't driven one and I may feel differently afterwards, but I was absolutely ambivalent about it. There were many others looking at it while I was standing there and the general consensus was one of apathy. No one that I spoke to was very excited about it after seeing it in person.

Tony
 

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I traded my M6 for the V. I just couldn't get the SMG transmission and the high revving V10 to work for me in daily traffic. I also have a Ford GT for track days and I guess I became spoiled on torque. The caddy provides enough to HP to make it fun on the track but is has bucket loads of torque which make it a blast for day to day use. Altogether I would say the Cadillac is a phenomenal daily driver and a sufficient track car whereas the M6 was just sufficient on both fronts.
 

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I'll try to answer a few.

Skip shift.. Yes it's there, but I have never actually noticed it. It is not nearly as intrusive as it was on my Fbody, ZR1 or Z06s.

6MT: I'm hoping that it helps my resale due to rarity but I will be shopping to a narrower group of people looking for manual. If you already own a ZR1 then you might be happier with the auto for a DD

Heavier steering feel: This happens with the TC (when set to competition mode). Its much better IMO.

Engine De-tune from ZR1: Forged pistons and different valves, different blower (1.9L vs 2.3L) and different IC (single brick vs. dual), different tuning.

I'll let someone else answer the rest.
While it has absolutely nothing to do with power output,... it maybe worth noting that the LS9 is dry sump and the LSA is wet sump. There are circumstances where that 'could' be important,... especially since he asked about boiling the brake fluid! LOL! Not sure if his C6 has a dry sump system, but if it does, this tid-bit could be important to him.

=====

Never mind,... I just read some else already touched on this!
 
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