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2017 Camaro ZL1; 2011 CTS-V sedan; 2004 Lightning
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Not taking the side of GM, but I would have to believe that the majority of people grenading their diffs are those people that rage on thier V's.
Grenading, sure. But howling? I'm a rolling start guy, yet I'm on my second diff.

In my somewhat younger days my manual shift RX-7 endured incredibly harsh treatment from yours truly for four years, and nothing on the car ever broke. Nothing. GM might point out that the torque was much lower, and they'd be right. On the other hand, everything about the drivetrain was properly scaled to handle the power that the the 13B engine DID produce.

GM can't make the same claim about our CTS-Vs.
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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1,241 Posts
Here's some fun...

GETRAG Corporate Group - 645

This is a little different than what I used for a Lemon Law fight with GM over my '05 CTS-V. I'll look for that info now...

Found the posts and the site from Getrag has been changed....I wonder why???...

"Well the Getrag is rated for 309 ft-lbs of torques according to...

GETRAG Corporate Group - Unternehmen 420 Nm = 309 ft-lbs

And our cars generate a maximum of 395 ft-lbs...so there lies the problem."

The stats on the site have been changed, but I have the docs in my legal file. Too bad they haven't changed the part...sad.

Good luck,
ace
 

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Cadillac
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Don't let this die, gents. Spread the word... If you're on other forums with a "Off Topic Lounge," or whatever, bring it up, post the article, ask for advice/feedback... Get the word started and spreading.

Worked on my '99 Cobra.
 

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CTS-V
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874 Posts
A stock LS6 puts to the rear about 1100 lb-ft at 4800 rpm in 1st gear; supercharged is over 1300.

Cast iron. Cast iron. Cast iron.
:horse:
You just want one like the picture, with wires going to it, so you can mess with the tune!! :halo:
 

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'04V, '05V, '06SRT8, '10V, '13ZL1, '12 V, '16 Z06 SC757
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6,440 Posts
Let's get a few facts straight.

FACT - The current rear differential is not a performance piece and will not hold up to performance driving.

FACT - There are multiple failures regardless of driving style or habits.

FACT - GETRAG and GM engineers know there is a problem.

FACT - This would be a VERY expensive problem to fix, not to mention the PR nightmare.

FACT - Both GETRAG and GM will deny, deny, deny.

FACT - Accusing other forum members of abusing their vehicles will not fix the problem.

FACT - If you drive a CTS-V long enough, eventually the rear differential will either howl or fail.

FACT - I had 6 failures. Only one was from a standing start. The other five were shifting, going around a corner and one was actually just rolling out of my neighborhood one morning at under 15mph and 1/4 throttle.
 

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2006 CTS-V
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4,042 Posts
had 6 failures. Only one was from a standing start. The other five were shifting, going around a corner and one was actually just rolling out of my neighborhood one morning at under 15mph and 1/4 throttle.
Maybe these rears fail because too many of you drive like pussies!

Seriously though, it seems GM has decided dealing warrenty claims is cheaper than solving the problem in the engineering department.

I think they're wrong, but making foolish financial decisions would be nothing new for "The General".
 

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You always did have a grasp on the reality CVP.....

Let's get a few facts straight.

FACT - The current rear differential is not a performance piece and will not hold up to performance driving.
[This is a Performance Car?]

FACT - There are multiple failures regardless of driving style or habits.
[Failures.....wait....are we talking about the CTS-V still?]

FACT - GETRAG and GM engineers know there is a problem.
[Again with this "problem", problem, what problem?]

FACT - This would be a VERY expensive problem to fix, not to mention the PR nightmare.
[Oh, this has absolutely nothing to do with it, there is NO PROBLEM!...geeesh!]

FACT - Both GETRAG and GM will deny, deny, deny.
[I'm sorry, you had a question?]

FACT - Accusing other forum members of abusing their vehicles will not fix the problem.
[Now this one, gasps.....isnt the fact you bought this car enough evidence you are responsible for any, and its well established theres no "problem", breakage, repairs and/or damage caused by you merely starting this car on a daily basis?]

FACT - If you drive a CTS-V long enough, eventually the rear differential will either howl or fail.
[This is PREPOSTEROUS!!!!!!, there is no evidence of any type of this occuring on any of the 2010 CTS-Vs!!! You sir, need to stop making these preposterous statements!! Its troublemakers like you sir that make it very hard to maintain the brainwashing program we have spent a kabillion dollars on, and so far, with the exception of a handful of you resisters, its worked well, look at the post a few back...a very good example of the brainwashing working.]

FACT - I had 6 failures. Only one was from a standing start. The other five were shifting, going around a corner and one was actually just rolling out of my neighborhood one morning at under 15mph and 1/4 throttle.
[LIES...LIES...ALL LIES!!!! LALALALALALA....I CANT HEAR YOUUUUUUUUUUUU
ANY AND ALL ABOVE COMMENTS ARE NOT EITHER AUTHORIZED NOR IMPLIED AUTHORIZATION BY ANYONE SMARTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. THESE ABOVE COMMENTS ARE MEANT IN NO WAY TO CAUSE FEAR, HARM, ILLNESS OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF REACTION THAT COULD POSSIBLY MAKE YOU WHINE LIKE A BITCH. EVEN THIS LAST SENTENCE WAS NOT INTENDED TO CAUSE ANY HARM OR REACTION TO THOSE WHO ARE NOW WHINING LIKE BITCHES. ANY IMPLICATIONS THAT ANY OF THE ABOVE COMMENTS ARE AN IMLPIED REACTION FROM ANY OF THE MAJOR CAR COMPANIES IS STRICTLY IN YOUR MIND. HOPEFULLY ITS OBVIOUS, THAT IF THESE COMMENTS WERE FROM ANY CAR MAKER THAT ALL OF THE CUSTOMERS COMPLAINTS ARE ENTIRELY DUE TO THE CUSTOMERS INABILITY TO ACCEPT THAT FOR THIER HARD EARNED 50K THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO EVER FIX A CAR, WHICH OF COURSE IS A RIDICULUS NOTION IN AND OF ITSELF.

AND SINCE I'M HERE I WANT TO KNOW WHO THE COMPANIES ARE GETTING RICH SELLING WHEEL HOP REMEDIES TO CADILLAC OWNERS.......CUZ IT SURE AS THE HELL AIN'T ME.
 

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06 CTS-V (sold)
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680 Posts
Thanks for the info.

I'm new to the forum and new to the CTS-V (bought an 06 last week). Looks like the 06 has stronger half-shafts and it was mentioned that the diff was different with stronger teeth on the gearsets. I hadn't read this anywhere else. Anyone have any more info on the changes made to the 06?

FYI, I've spent a lot of time on the Vette and GTO forums over the last five years (I have an 02 Corvette Z06 and am a member of a GTO forum) and the CTS-V is not the only GM vehicle with the whinning diff problem. This problem appears to be very common to 06 Vettes and all years of the GTO. Its starting to crop up on the Vette forums for the C5/C5 Z06 model years 02-04 as they accumulate miles on the fleet.
 

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05 CTS-V
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23,162 Posts
Not taking the side of GM, but I would have to believe that the majority of people grenading their diffs are those people that rage on thier V's. People that join forums like this generally fit that description :D To prove that the diff will fail under normal driving conditions would probably put them in some form of liability, but then again that is what safety recalls are for and I highly doubt that is going to happen.
:rolleyes: :jerkit:

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2006 Black CTS-V
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LETS MAKE THIS HAPPEN PEOPLE!!!!
Maybe I've watched too many home improvement shows lately, but when you say this why do I get visions of a horde of hard-hatted construction types carrying sledgehammers swarming towards GM headquarters? And half an hour later hollering, "MOVE THAT BUS... MOVE THAT BUS!!!" in order to reveal 04/05 Vs with performance rear differentials in them.

I guess I'm a little confused as to why GM, knowing that the diff couldn't withstand the output power of the 04/05 V's stock engine, would go ahead and greenlight its use anyhow.:confused: Anyone here have any good insight into what thought process would go into KNOWINGLY making an inferior product? A product that has been previously branded as high quality.

But I'm not an engineer or a bean counter at a corporation. GM must have had a good reason for doing what they did. :annoyed: I'm just a small business owner who was taught by family to always try to do the job right the first time. And if you make a mistake, say you're "sorry" and make things right with a smile no matter how hard it hurts your pride or your wallet.

And it shouldn't matter if you are selling something for $5 or $50,000 either; but I quess, with this kind of business philosophy, that's why my family business will always be a small one.:eek:
 

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2015 BMUU 335i MSport, 2006 STS-V--2005 CTS-V ( traded in)
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Using existing parts at the time of production reduces overall production costs, especially on a model that was to be in limited production in the first place as the V series, instead of designing / purchasing a whole different unit just for our few thousand cars per year. This basically applies also to the reason we don't see a specific fix. Cheaper to simply replace the units that do fail and wait for customer warranty to run out than to engineer a worthy replacement as the car itself is getting a redesign in 08. The current CTS-V will have the kind of production numbers in it's 4 years of unit production ( 04,05,06,07 ) than a lot of GM models get in a single year. A full blown recall is a more expensive move (all cars get them replaced failed or not ) and draws attention to a poor design at a time GM is trying to improve a quality image and compete in a tougher market.
 

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Cadillac 2004 CTS-V
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173 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
The biggest problem I have with this issue (am I'm not speaking out of any anger--my diff has never had any issues) is that GM is being very difficult with the poor fellas that are having diff problems. I think the majority of us V owners are reasonable people who expect to be treated fairly. Cadillac has a known design defect with their vehicle and they continue to decline repairs under warranty. We're not asking for a total recall of the diff whether there are problems or not--just do the right thing and repair the ones that have issues under warranty.
We Cadillac owners are being disrespected and ignored--something I would never come to expect from this type of company.
PLEASE CADILLAC: DO THE RIGHT THING!!!:tisk: :tisk: :tisk:
 

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2005 Cadillac CTS-V
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800 Posts
Being a NewV owner I haven't had any problems yetwith my rear diff. That said from what my experience has been like with my dealer, I wouldn't want them going near my rear diff. They are poorly trained and inexperienced when it comes to the V.

If Cadillac wants a new image as a youthful performance car company then 'charity begins at home'. Most of the dealer network I have read about on this forum and others is just as bad or worse than mine. Get these shops trained and certified on the cars so they can at least diagnose and work on them.

James and Ewil3rd at Lindsay are certainly exceptions to the rule but given the Cadillac reputation for quality and service they SHOULD be the norm.
 

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LS6 V
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282 Posts
Using existing parts at the time of production reduces overall production costs, especially on a model that was to be in limited production in the first place as the V series, instead of designing / purchasing a whole different unit just for our few thousand cars per year. This basically applies also to the reason we don't see a specific fix. Cheaper to simply replace the units that do fail and wait for customer warranty to run out than to engineer a worthy replacement as the car itself is getting a redesign in 08. The current CTS-V will have the kind of production numbers in it's 4 years of unit production ( 04,05,06,07 ) than a lot of GM models get in a single year. A full blown recall is a more expensive move (all cars get them replaced failed or not ) and draws attention to a poor design at a time GM is trying to improve a quality image and compete in a tougher market.
This about sums it up. GM must think that in the long run, the cost to correctly fix the problem will exceed their profit on the margin. They've accounted for the average failure rate vs mileage/warranty and probably figure this will move in their favor. Very, very, very, shady, but something big businesses always do.
It's very simple economics. A perfect example:
Wal-Mart accounts for yearly losses due to theft. They can spend all the money they want on security systems and extra personel, but in the end it's just not efficient. The cost for maximum security will eventually exceed the benefit. In the end, they'll mazimize benefit by spending $XX on security and allow $XX amount of theft per year.
That's who we are to GM, people. We're their "thieves".

In the grand scheme of GM's automobile manufacturing, we're forced to look at GM's plan of equilibrium benefit vs loss. We may never see action unless this thing snowballs with media help.:annoyed:
 

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That's the problem, though. They've got a lot more to lose than X amount of dollars.

Cuz whatever equation or mathematical profit-based formula they're using, even though average failure rates, warranty period, mileage, yadayadayada may have all been accounted for, they certainly forgot to consider the largest factor as far as any business is concerned - all those future customers they have alienated and henceforth lost. Simple economics? Eh, I call it bad economics and just plain bad business. Stupid ass corporations. Suck my nana. Whatever the hell that means. Suck it.
 

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LS6 V
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That's the problem, though. They've got a lot more to lose than X amount of dollars.

Cuz whatever equation or mathematical profit-based formula they're using, even though average failure rates, warranty period, mileage, yadayadayada may have all been accounted for, they certainly forgot to consider the largest factor as far as any business is concerned - all those future customers they have alienated and henceforth lost. Simple economics? Eh, I call it bad economics and just plain bad business. Stupid ass corporations. Suck my nana. Whatever the hell that means. Suck it.
Well put.
Especially, the suck it part. :D :D:yup:
 

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04 RAVEN BLACK CTS-V: FREEFLOW INTAKE w/K&N, MAGNAFLOW, CAGS
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Guys as far as media coverage, if someone can get me that article I will try everything in my power to make it seen publically. I work for NBC in the CNBC building and have a friend in the building who has contacts at our Detroit office which is used primarily to cover everything automotive. We can't let this thread die, I don't care if we are GM's write off or not, this whole situation is totall bullshit. We know the document exists, now we need it- PERIOD!!!:yup:

James
 

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CTS-V
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Guys as far as media coverage, if someone can get me that article I will try everything in my power to make it seen publically. I work for NBC in the CNBC building and have a friend in the building who has contacts at our Detroit office which is used primarily to cover everything automotive. We can't let this thread die, I don't care if we are GM's write off or not, this whole situation is totall bullshit. We know the document exists, now we need it- PERIOD!!!:yup:

James
 

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09 Silver V 06 Silver Z06
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Hell yes to this thread, if the guy who wrote the article @ GMHTP is any kind of enthusiast he will bring this article to light!
 
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