Less than 3mpg for the drag race!!

 

And then the peanut gallery chimes in with "of course the Benz is faster". Times that close are a virtual tie, and, yes, the auto makes that dead even. The price discrepancy is disgusting...

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I have hit 5 mpg at Summit Point...

 

As usual, they have a manual (Caddy) versus an automatic (Benz) and then say each shift in the Caddy slows it down........ DUH

 

Nothing in the article convinced me I want to trade for the benz. Thanks, I'll keep my V and the 50K.

 

Also worth noting is the only reason the E63 could keep up with the CTS-V is because it had the P30 performance package. A normal E63 AMG still costs about $95k and only makes 518 HP, and weighs more than the V. In other words, you have to buy the performance package on top of the AMG performance model in order to run with a showroom stock CTS-V. Not sure that's worth $111,000.

 

You beat me to the point...
Stock E63 without the PP gets smoked...
There was an episode of Battle of the Supercars on Speed that pitted the w212 E63 (with the NA 6.2 engine) against the CTS-V. The Caddy DESTROYED the MB. It pulled bus lengths in the drag race.

 

Give LPE 50% of the price difference ($42k) and tell them to smoke the AMG...and they will give you a big pocket of change...and easily smoke that wagon!

 

There is no car that beats the V in terms of performance and value

 

Should have tried Auto vs. Auto.....im sure the 3/10ths would be negated.

 

Its hard to fault the E63. Mercedes has done an impressive job at making it better to drive, and that engine is a great piece. I agree with everyone that the E63 is not worth the asking price, but its still an impressive beast.
I dunno if anyone is noticing, but these are 2 wagons. Both would embarrass mostly anything out of MB or GM even into the 2000's.

 

I'm not so sure anymore, cars like the atom, CTS-V and GT-R have proven you don't need world-class pricing to go with world-class speed. Once you take the shock and awe away from a 550HP V8, what are you left with? A generally well apointed and animal-hide lined car? Hyundai is proving, anyone can do that with a good set of engineers and design team. It's fast, nice, and well built, but impressive? The price they're asking for it is impressive, the rarity and some of the technology (carbon ceramic brakes) is impressive, but the package as a whole? I'm not convinced.

 

Yep, like they are doing with the Corvette, if you told Cadillac designers and engineers they had a budget of an extra $15G per car, most of the interior and build quality shortcomings would be strengths...

 

honestly? I don't think it would even take that much. GM has way more resources and buying power than Mercedes and BMW, they also lack an import tax on their cars as well.

 

If you're staring at the dashboard of a 550 hp car, you're doing it wrong.

 

that's not my point

My point is. if you've got two 550HP cars and there's a 50 grand price difference, why is the more expensive, slower one impressive? I used to think it was because of the dashboard, now though I just scoff and tell myself 'anyone can make a car of that quality when you're paying that much'

these days all that's left *is* the dashboard, and maybe the car's feel to justify the extra 50 grand.

 

It's not your point, but it's mine. I used to care about interior quality greatly. It's why I avoided American cars in the 90s like the plague. My 05 V was my first American car in a while, and while I grudgingly accepted the interior of my V (and then maimed it ) I was quite irritated by it. It only took a few hundred miles of ear to ear grins to convert me. Since then, I really don't care about interiors anymore. If the seat creaks, and the dashboard squeaks, so be it. As long as I got a great chassis and powertrain, that's all that matters.

 

I agree because I value performance over luxury or panache.
But on a relative scale of wealth, if cost was not an issue, I dare say that most people will take the M5, Panamera, E63/CLS63, etc...despite the fact that the Caddy may be faster and perform better.
I liken this to some of the Caddy owners who look down at the Chevy/Ford owners, saying they cannot match the luxury and name of the Caddy...

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Umm, I'm POed about the jibe against the Recaro seats. I just took a 14 hour 800 mile 1 day trip to South Central Virginia and back, and never felt any discomfort at all from my Recaros. Through twisting farm land and over the blue ridge mountains then back to PA. This article was just stupid IMHO. I am also curious what goes into the P30 performance package other than a boost increase? I wonder how long that engine will last, and no offense, but at that weight penalty with the airbag rear suspension, forget the drag race. Put them on a road course and say good-bye to the Mercedes. You'd never see it again.

I thought the comments about the Recaro's were also silly. Initially, I found the curve on the upper third of the backrest uncomfortable. But after adjusting the seat properly, it's been fine.
No question the Caddy is the better performer on track and back roads.

 

Umm, I'm POed about the jibe against the Recaro seats. I just took a 14 hour 800 mile 1 day trip to South Central Virginia and back, and never felt any discomfort at all from my Recaros. Through twisting farm land and over the blue ridge mountains then back to PA. This article was just stupid IMHO. I am also curious what goes into the P30 performance package other than a boost increase? I wonder how long that engine will last, and no offense, but at that weight penalty with the airbag rear suspension, forget the drag race. Put them on a road course and say good-bye to the Mercedes. You'd never see it again.

 

The Recaros are awesome.

 

I am also curious what goes into the P30 performance package other than a boost increase?

your $7,300 buys;
sport tuned suspension
Sport steering wheel
limiter raised to 186mph
carbon fiber engine cover
Extra horse powers.

I spent some time thinking about it last night and acutally, it's not as much a price gouge as I thought, it might acutally be a decent value.

I wonder how long that engine will last

I wouldn't be concerned about it. At All. That engine can take a lot more power than an LSA can.

Umm, I'm POed about the jibe against the Recaro seats. I just took a 14 hour 800 mile 1 day trip to South Central Virginia and back, and never felt any discomfort at all from my Recaros

You need to go sit in something esle from a sports sedan. The Recaro's can be made to be tolerable, but others are much more comfortable as soon as you sit in them *and* are still supportive. If they do one thing right, they certinally look the part, and they do hold you pretty well. Otherwise, a lot of the $3400 is the licensing, crash testing and everything associated with a saftey product change. I would bet GM spent at least 1/3 of that $3400 on anything 'but' the seats. You're also talking about $3400 seats that rock, make a lot of creaking noise--I'm convinced that my left side bolster support has collapsed, and they're so tall that at 6' 2" I have 1/4'' of space to the sunroof opening. For $3400 they should be perfect, and they're just not. Don't get me wrong, I much prefer them to the Lear seats, they're a necessity if you plan on acutally tracking the car, but they have a lot of room for improvement.

 

your $7,300 buys;
sport tuned suspension
Sport steering wheel
limiter raised to 186mph
carbon fiber engine cover
Extra horse powers.

I spent some time thinking about it last night and acutally, it's not as much a price gouge as I thought, it might acutally be a decent value.


I wouldn't be concerned about it. At All. That engine can take a lot more power than an LSA can.


You need to go sit in something esle from a sports sedan. The Recaro's can be made to be tolerable, but others are much more comfortable as soon as you sit in them *and* are still supportive. If they do one thing right, they certinally look the part, and they do hold you pretty well. Otherwise, a lot of the $3400 is the licensing, crash testing and everything associated with a saftey product change. I would bet GM spent at least 1/3 of that $3400 on anything 'but' the seats. You're also talking about $3400 seats that rock, make a lot of creaking noise--I'm convinced that my left side bolster support has collapsed, and they're so tall that at 6' 2" I have 1/4'' of space to the sunroof opening. For $3400 they should be perfect, and they're just not. Don't get me wrong, I much prefer them to the Lear seats, they're a necessity if you plan on acutally tracking the car, but they have a lot of room for improvement.

Well, I have spent a lot time in various AMG's, and the recaros are a whole lot better than those seats. I have spent some time in high end beemer performance cars, and I like the recaros better. Don't know about audi or Porsche or a Nissan GTR. I like the recaros, and I have read about the creaking and rocking, but mine don't do that. If they did, I guess that I would have different opinion, but I get lucky sometimes, and I guess that I got lucky with these. I do hope that they fix the seats for those people with the problem though.

I would prefer to see more in the actual engine internals. I have seen the result of increases in boost pressure on engines that have not been worked otherwise, and it usually leads to eventual demolition of the valve train and scoring of the piston walls. The LSA has a a hardened crank, titanium crank arms and other improvements to make that engine handle the power. I have heard nothing from Mercedes concerning those types of improvements, and having had a diesel mercedes where the crank arms regularly bent on the engine, and the engine was prone to hydrolocking from internal leaks (1991 350SDL), I am not going to "trust" that mercedes has over engineered the engine in the first place. I have also had to experience a total rebuild on an AMG CLK55 when the engine only had about 2,000 miles on it so I think that I will be hard to convince that they got it right.

 

The Recaros are awesome.

 

You tell me which you'd rather have

This is a REAL Recaro

Honestly? It reminds me of the seats out of the old B5.

which look like this (remember.. these are 13 years old..)

They're better than the Lear seats, and comfortable enough that I can tolerate them, but awesome? Not even close, and that's all I have to say about that.

 

It's just a personal preference thing. I personally think the Recaro seats are way to firm (especially for a Cadillac). That being said, there are people who like them enough to hand over $3400. If Cadillac had an option for an upgrade comfy seat with extra padding & shiatsu massage, I'd be enjoying that right now!

 

Maybe because I'm bigger they fit me best? I don't know, but I can drive in my car day after day, all day long...

 

You can't even get those unless you live in Europe.

I will concede that. My point I believe stands however.

I had a 2010 S4... the Caddy seats are better.

All I can say is my observations have been with test drives, and of said test drives, I found that the balance of Comfort and Support could be better with the recaro's. Certainly they're very supportive, but they're also very flat. You've owned a B8 for a few years, and I'm ~ 230lbs/ 6' 3". Did you find them overall better in comfort and support, or were they just a good compromise of support over comfort?

 

I will concede that. My point I believe stands however.

All I can say is my observations have been with test drives, and of said test drives, I found that the balance of Comfort and Support could be better with the recaro's. Certainly they're very supportive, but they're also very flat. You've owned a B8 for a few years, and I'm ~ 230lbs/ 6' 3". Did you find them overall better in comfort and support, or were they just a good compromise of support over comfort?

I think that's the biggest problem... we're all different sizes and we all have different backs. I'm not sure what you mean by "flat" since you can change the seat angle, etc... all I can say in that compared to the seats that are available out there, I think the caddy's recaros are top notch and a must have. You won't find anything close to this cool in that price range... you can go out and buy some aftermarket seats but you won't get anywhere near the features for the price. (heat/power etc)

Look at a GTR's seats... look at a 911's seats.. M3 or M5? I don't think they have anything on those in the caddy. Heated, cooled, hip and side adjustments, lumber etc etc etc... There's a button to move every part of the seat and the damn things even extend. Maybe that's the problem, too many options?

 

I'm 6'1 285. I find the comfort excellent. And I'm used to sitting in a Town Car seat every day.

Now, my brother doesn't like my passenger seat and says it's too hard. But he says it's worlds different in the driver's seat. So maybe break in matters for the cushions. Also, mine was a demo with 4,500 miles.

 

I'm echoing the positive comments about the Recaro seats, and mine don't rock or squeak either. I spent less than ½ hour total in finding the right adjustments for me; then I put the settings in memory and haven't changed a thing since. I haven't driven comparable AMG's or M's, so I can't speak about them. All I know is that the Recaro seats are comfortable and supportive for me, regardless of driving time, and the lumbar support soothes my lower back. I'm 6' and 186#.

Jud

 

I'm also 6' and 185... so sounds like height might play the biggest issue here. Of course we'd need more data, but that's a start.

 

I had a problem with the Recaros that I've not seen mention that often. I'm 6'5" / 210 lb, and do a lot of biking and regular weight training, so I am long and lean with pretty big thighs. I found the thigh bolsters, even at their extremes, to be very uncomfortable for me. The rest of the seat fit great and I loved the side bolsters, but those thigh bolsters were crazy uncomfortable, so my V will not have Recaros. Plus, the fact that the Recaros are just a little bit higher in seating means that I end up not having enough head room when the seat is put in a position to allow for the kids in the back seat.

I'm just not built to fit in those seats. Alas.