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Manul versus Auto. Is it time to change?

6224 Views 68 Replies 32 Participants Last post by  Tasos, 
R
I have bought manual cars the last 20 years. I like the "feel" of an a manual for reasons that probably do not need explaining to folks on this board. That being said, after 4.5 years living the V I have not enjoyed my time with the manual driveline on the V1. Again, for reasons that do not need explanation.

Yesterday I went to a dealer here in Canada and saw a V2 for the first time. They had recieved four cars in total so far. Three are sold and ALL are auto. The saleman said that there was just one unsold V in the country with a manual.

My first instinct was to say, "Well when they have a manual available I'll be back". He tried to make veiled suggestions that they did not know how much longer the V would be made. "88 engineers at GM high performance division has been disbanded and the engineers reassigned". etc. I other words, get one whilst you can. Whatever, I don't mind buying used. I said I liked the ZR1 as well but too expensie right now I would wait and buy used. His observation..."Is that a good idea. A car like that would get driven hard".

Well candidly, the car CAN and SHOULD be driven hard because it can take it no problem, Secondly, in my experience the VAST majority of Corvette owners baby their cars. You see them on Ebay all the time. Four years old and 10,000 miles. *sigh* I'm also interested in a 2005 DB9. These are offerred at 50% of MSRP right now and you cannot FIND a car with more then 20k miles. Most are 10 - 15 k in miles. They sit in a garne all the time. Whata wayse. What depreciation.

On reflection however, I should perhaps give the auto a chance. I have no doubt that it is a "good" transmission.

So my question to the diehard stick shift drivers. If you went with an auto, any regrets. Do you still enjoy the sense of "fun"? I was just watching Jeremy Clarkson driving the ZR1 and his comment was "thank goodness you could still get a car with a manual and not all the "floopy" shift paddles.

I drove a Corvette with the shift buttons and candidly it did not appeal to me. They still shift like an auto. No heal toe, no control of the revs as you let out the clutch, no compression downshifting and a sliding clutch.

So what are peoples thoughts
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J
Rickerbucks said:
So what are peoples thoughts
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I don't exactly fit your qualification to answer this thread, as I actually went with a manual in the V. But, I'll offer up my (325 mile) experience, so far. Take it for what it's worth (probably less than you paid for it.. :) )

I simply can't imagine driving a sports, or sporty, or GT car without a manual. And that goes doubly for the V. I know GM spent an enormous amount of time tuning the auto in the V, and I know it's a damned good transmission. But, at the end of the day, it's a push-button-to-shift transmission, and to me there's just something... missing.. from it. Like the third pedal.

I just got back from a 200 mile trip through the Shenendoahs, in VA. A good portion of my trip was on VA Rt. 211, which is, in my opinion, one of the finest roads in this entire state. Once it hits the mountains (which it does, twice) it becomes a very twisty snake: some corners are literally greater than 180 degrees, perfectly banked, etc. Three lanes of traffic: 2 up hill, and 1 down.

Now, I'm still in my break-in section, so I kept the gears high (5th and 6th up the mountains... imagine that..) and the revs low. Even so, the car behaved perfectly, and I never once thought, "Gee, this would be so much MORE enjoyable with an automatic."

In fact, if that thought ever actually enters my mind, I'm going to have a short discussion with my shotgun!

The manual in this car is perfect. I do wish 6th was a lot taller, but that's not what your asking about. It shifts smoothly and cleanly, the clutch effort is nearly non-existent, and I actually did experiment a couple of times with light-throttle no-lift-shifts.... it works.

I say: go manual. Wait for one to be available, or hell, ORDER one!

jas
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R
If it's any help, the same transmission employed in the ZR1, the TR6060 is also used in the V2. The Tr6060 has been highly regarded in the cars it's been used in. A great successor to the T-56.
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N
I've been driving stick for my entire life with the exception of my last vehicle (Jeep SRT8) and I'm soooo happy to be back in a manual. For me it feels like I'm driving again.
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jvp said:
The manual in this car is perfect. I do wish 6th was a lot taller, but that's not what your asking about. It shifts smoothly and cleanly, the clutch effort is nearly non-existent, and I actually did experiment a couple of times with light-throttle no-lift-shifts.... it works.

I say: go manual. Wait for one to be available, or hell, ORDER one!

jas
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+1000, i have no experience with the tremec tr-6060 in the v as mine hasnt came yet, but i have alot of experience with that identical transmission in other cars (07 gt500, and 07 z06) and from what ive heard its vastly better then the tranny in the older V.

To contrast things, ive driven my brothers 03 m3 and and a z8 and both have comparatively rubbery and long throw shifters. The throws on the tr-6060 are short and precise. Ive heard that shifting the old one was like dislocating your sholder, and popping it back in.

This issue no longer applys, the TR-6060 is a world class brand name tranny that belongs in cars like the Z06 and CTS-V, get the stick like any true sports car should have.
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RapidRob
jvp said:
The manual in this car is perfect. I do wish 6th was a lot taller, but that's not what your asking about. It shifts smoothly and cleanly, the clutch effort is nearly non-existent, and I actually did experiment a couple of times with light-throttle no-lift-shifts.... it works.

I say: go manual. Wait for one to be available, or hell, ORDER one!

jas
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Good post jas!:thumbsup:

X2000 - order a manual while you can IMHO. Many dealers are stocking autos because they think they will be easier to move, (lessons learned from previous v1's I guess), but I'm very happy with the manual tranny in my v2, even though I'm still working through the break-in period as well. Nothing wrong with the auto tranny for sure - but in THIS car, the manual just fits perfectly as far as I'm concerned.

Rob
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cts-me said:
+ but i have alot of experience with that identical transmission in other cars (07 gt500, and 07 z06)
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Careful there. I don't know about the GT500, but the 07 Z06 did NOT have the TR-6060. It has the last of the T56s. The TR6060 came into being for the 08s and up.

jas
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neuronbob
Sigh. You guys are 100% right about the manny tranny. I love my automatic V, mind you, and bought it to allow for the low likelihood of an emergency during which the non-stick-driving wife has to drive the car.

It's why I'm keeping my S2000 even with a V in the stable....need a sports car that I can shift in. That, and shifting a 9k rpm is just as pleasurable an experience as feeling the butt dyno working in a V2.
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T
The 2004 and 2005 CTS-Vs that I had both had manual transmissions since that was the only thing available. The last car I had with a manual transmission before that was a 1966 Pontiac GTO and all vehicles before that were manual. Since the 1966 GTO I had a 1973 Cad, 1979 Eldo, 1988 Riviera, and 1995 Eldo. All had automatics. When Cadillac offered the CTS-V with an automatic I jumped on it and have never looked back. Manual transmissions are a gigantic PIA, in my opinion, and I will never go back unless forced to, as was the case with the 2004-2007 CTS-Vs.
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D
Ricker: We have several things in common. If I can't shift it, I typically don't buy it, unless it is a daily driver or a beater. I've been shifting for over 45 years now and refuse to change. 15 muscle cars over the years, all manuals. A 98 and 04 Z06 vettes, manual. 06 V1, manual of course. Now, let me say this. My V1 linkage was probably the bottom of the barrel as far as quality. But, a UUC helped a bunch. It's been said before, the Tremec6060 in the V2 is one of the very best manuals I have EVER owned. Trust me on this......drive one for three blocks and you'll say, "this is what should have been in the V1!" And coupled with the dual disk clutch......priceless! Dick
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T
I just got rid of my 08 Z06 with the TR6060 transmission and I'm glad I did. I went with the auto just for peace of mind of not having the issues with the manual. Look up some service bulletins about grinding in 1-2 and then think about the manual. I hated driving the Z feeling the gears grind in 1st, 2nd and eventually 3rd and 4th. GM's answer, it is normal for the trans to grind for the first twenty miles while shifting when the weather is cold. My answer BBB and Lemon Law. Read up on the TR6060 the trans is not all that it is made out to be.
I enjoy a manual transmission and might miss it over time. Right now, still going through the break in period, the auto shifts just fine.
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JFJr
Rickerbucks said:
So what are peoples thoughts
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If you have to ask this question to a forum, you are obviously not a "car guy." Manual transmissions are for people who really like to drive. They appreciate all the options that a manual transmission offers and love the drivetrain noises and other sensations that are present in a manual transmission car and absent in an automatic transmission car. Have you ever driven a manual transmission car and the equivalent of the same car with an automatic transmission? If you have you would have noticed that the automatic transmission car felt totally different and somewhat "dead" by comparison. If all of this is foreign to you, get the automatic transmission version of the 2009 CTS-V, and don't be asking other people to help you make the decision. FYI, the TR-6060 is about as good as it gets for a manual transmission in a torque monster like the LSA.
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OldRoadDawg
JFJr said:
If you have to ask this question to a forum, you are obviously not a "car guy." Manual transmissions are for people who really like to drive. They appreciate all the options that a manual transmission offers and love the drivetrain noises and other sensations that are present in a manual transmission car and absent in an automatic transmission car. Have you ever driven a manual transmission car and the equivalent of the same car with an automatic transmission? If you have you would have noticed that the automatic transmission car felt totally different and somewhat "dead" by comparison. If all of this is foreign to you, get the automatic transmission version of the 2009 CTS-V, and don't be asking other people to help you make the decision. FYI, the TR-6060 is about as good as it gets for a manual transmission in a torque monster like the LSA.
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:highfive:
Took the words right out of this old guy's mouth.
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OldRoadDawg said:
:highfive:
Took the words right out of this old guy's mouth.
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+1, only im not so old :lildevil:
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GMX322V S/C
Rickerbucks said:
...So my question to the diehard stick shift drivers. If you went with an auto, any regrets...
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I'll answer this question directly: nope, no regrets. In 33 years of driving, I've been lucky enough to have company cars, so I've only owned two other cars, both with manuals. The first, a 2200 pound Mazda RX-3 coupe, powered by a race-prepped rotary engine, would've ran away from the V2 in the twisties--but what a cranky, obnoxious beast to live with. I still have my 2nd car, a 1990 Mazda MX-5--and for pure sports fun it's hard to beat--'cause if you can't go fast with 115 HP, 441 more ain't gonna help. Now the V2 is on a completely different plane of existence compared to my first two cars--truly a "bi-modal bullet," but still a grand touring sedan in my book. The auto fits for what I bought the car for; the fact that it brings no performance envelope penalty (save for top speed) is just gravy. If I want more involvement, I still have my other car :)
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B
Imagine this scneario, you are in tight steady traffic at 30-40mph with an auto. Probably in 5th or 6th gear <1500rpm. You want to squirt ahead to merge into a gap in the left lane for an upcoming turn. You press the loud pedal, and the auto says oh I see you want to go fast now, and downshifts to 2nd gear and you are wailing at 5000rpm. I HATE that behavior and every automatic I have ever driven does it. I chose the manual, I like to shift, I like to tell the car what I want it to do, I like the involvement.

A couple other reasons to consider the manual.
1. A manual in a high-po sedan may become a rare thing. Witness the availability of the auto in the V2 versus the V1 and the percentage of auto vs manual (75/25?)
2. The manual is approx 100lbs lighter
3. The manual gets better MPG, and has lower gas guzzler tax
4. The manual will almost certainly handle increased power better than the auto

My last sports cars was an S2000 (the one with the 9000 rpm motor) and it had perhaps the worlds best manual transmission - butter smooth, firm positive engagement, extremely short throw, etc. And it needed it since it had to be shifted a lot to keep it in power - it had <200ft-lbs tq. The LSA is a torque monster, and doesn't need to be shifted as much, even more reason to choose the manual in my opinion.
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For me stick shift all the way! My 08 Z has the same stick, so far so good! Enjoy and drive it,
don't let it drive you!
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RapidRob
tbss08 said:
Read up on the TR6060 the trans is not all that it is made out to be.
I enjoy a manual transmission and might miss it over time. Right now, still going through the break in period, the auto shifts just fine.
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Indeed, sounds like you may have experienced a bad apple TR6060 cuz there is absolutely no grinding in any gear in my copy. Shifts are short, firm, and precise, with perfect clutch action. And, as I said, I'm still breaking the car in - so it's lookin real good so far.:cloud9:

Rob
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M
I just test drove a stick yesterday, and I was pleasantly surprised. It was better than the stick in my '08 CTS, and felt better to me than a lot of the recent BMW sticks, too. There is a wonderful road behind this dealership with lots of curves and elevation changes, and shifting up and down and heel and toeing was just a joy. The handling and grip was a revelation, too. This car has the Recaros and the microfiber wheel, too, and they all added to a feeling of oneness with the car. What a great driving tool! I can't imagine that the automatic would be this much fun, as good as it may be. If you've enjoyed driving a stick in the past, I don't think you'll regret it. I have no desire to even try the auto, having tested the stick. As for this one, well, I'm working on it! More to follow.
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neuronbob
backup said:
My last sports cars was an S2000 (the one with the 9000 rpm motor) and it had perhaps the worlds best manual transmission - butter smooth, firm positive engagement, extremely short throw, etc. And it needed it since it had to be shifted a lot to keep it in power - it had <200ft-lbs tq. The LSA is a torque monster, and doesn't need to be shifted as much, even more reason to choose the manual in my opinion.
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Hey, another S2000 (prior) owner. :thumbsup: Looking forward to driving mine to work in the AM to give my V a break.
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