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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, I usually ramble on for a bit so I'll try to keep this short....I doubt it, though!

I've been set on an STi for a daily driver/autox car for a few months. Great performance, four doors, fourwheeldrive, and not too costly. STi can be tuned quite easily and there is an abundance of suspension upgrades that could put me back in the running of FTD, fastest time of day, at my local autoX.
**Note: I won my class, CSP, for two years in a prepped MR2Spyder but I have a need for a childseat-friendly vehicle, thus leading me to the sedans. Other than the CTS-V, there are no real competitors that I would consider. And I believe that a mention of "400 horsepower" holds as much weight as Bill Schatner reciting "Denny Crane" to a jury:yup:

New developments with my employment have led to an ability to entertain the CTS-V as my next car. It seems to be what I've always wanted...a luxury car with the heart of a Vette...it seems like an answered prayer. Great performance, room for my son, and certainly acceptable for client meetings. The handling is great for a stock car, .90g is very respectable for the weight, and with the optional shock package it should be even better but I have concerns.

So much for not rambling...So, here's the question...
With the upgraded shocks, can the V be competitive in AutoX? I'm sure a stiffer set of antiroll bars would help but I'm more concerned with tunability.
I've seen that Mallet sells the Penski's, but those are just too expensive. Are there any suspension alternatives to the SPO shocks(as I've read that you cannot lower the car via Eibach or HR, due to the leveling feature...that soo sucks, because the shocks are probably begging to be matched with stiffer springs)?

Thanks for any help/advice. I believe that the V could be the Leatherman Tool of cars with the proper aftermarket support, all the necessary ingredients are present. I just need that special spice....

Be good,
ace996
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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Discussion Starter #3
Leloz, I have looked at the S4 and was impressed with a few of its features, but it just doesn't do it for me. Its too small inside and frankly...a little bland. I had an A4 turbo before and although it was well supported by the aftermarket, it was plagued with problems. I've always wanted a vette, and with my situation of being a new father, a five seat V-06 is just too tempting. And, of course, its American...finally an American sedan that pulls at my heart.

No doubt that the V can be made into a competent Autox weapon, I just need a little direction. I understand that the car is relatively new to the public and that the market dictates availability of upgrades. Its just a shame that there is so little attention to the suspension, as the motor really doesn't need any help.

Be good,
ace996
 

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I contacted one of the team members for the SCCA V cars, and he said they are running stock suspension, including the rearend assembly.

I know those cars are very competitive, so much so that they were forced into adding weight for awhile.

PHOENIX PERFORMANCE, INC 610-482-0141 Ask for Joe, he seems very helpful.
 

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Good deal, I just thought the S4 might be a better contender, but then again it puts it in SM once you start modifying. I did quite a bit of AutoX when I had my 944 S2. My son had a modified Passat 1.8 Turbo ( same as the A4) and he used to AutoX it as well, nice cars but he recently sold it when he went overseas.

Do they make coilovers or a nice spring/strut combo for the V? I am sure with some tightening of the suspension and frame you can put that 400hp to better use on the track. Goodluck!
 

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How competitive? Who else is running?

The short answer, though, is that in stock class, I don't think a CTS-V will be competitive, though I've never actually seen one run. CTS-Vs are classed in A stock, which is the new home of the S2000; the CTS-V is too big, too heavy, and lacks sufficient tire width to really challenge the S2Ks or other A stock denizens (like the STi and the Evo) on anything but the fastest, straightest courses. A useful comparison is the E39 M5, which has similar power, weight and size to the CTS-V, but which is never really competitive. If A stock is empty in your area, you might have a better chance.

I do suspect, however, that the CTS-V will be a load of fun to run.
 

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ZIP
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I autocrossed for the first time in my V this fall. In fact, it was the first run in a RWD car since racing my parents' '72 2002. I have autocrossed extensively in a '92 SHO which was extensively modified.

As for the V, I was pretty competitive against Cobras, a Lightning and a couple older(mid 90's) M3s, all with race tires. I had the runflats. I was running 133 seconds while most Cobras were 130-132. One did run a low 129. There was a prepped STi with custom shocks, springs and a few other pieces I can't recall. He also had extensive engine work and would backfire flames out the tailpipe. With race rubber, he was getting 123s.

Now I'm sure I could've gotten down into the high 131-low 132 if I had more runs. This powerful RWD was very new for me. Plus towards the end of the day, when my times were getting better, the F1s were getting greasier. With race rubber, I know I could get down to about 127.

So, mod for mod, I doubt you'll ever get close to an STi, but for most others, you may do well.
 

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CTS-V
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I've been running my bone-stock CTS-V in A Stock - Novice. Six events so far. I've beat some STi's and been beaten by others. Still learning so mostly I get beat. If you already have the skill set, I'll bet you could clean-up without mods. Second gear torque is insane in the V and you can go way deep with the Brembos.
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the info, V-pilots. It sounds like there is potential with the platform. I am concerned that A-stock would not be the place for me, as the S2Ks in my region are fierce and the V doesn't have the ability to run enough tire to make up for the weight. The torque curve is desireable, though and it'd be nice to have power on demand.

I'm curious as to just how good a V can be with the proper suspension goodies. A bigger set of anti-roll bars and stiffer springs and shocks would probably open up a good deal of potential for the V. Now I play the waiting game and see who will address the suspension issue...Eibach, H&R, Koni, ect. I saw that Lund has a fitment for the CTS with Eibach coilovers but there is no other info to be found other than a picture on their site.

Weight would need to be lost. I figure there's probably +20lbs of diet in the runflats, a similiar amount in the exhaust, and those seats are probably a ton.
The rear brake rotor could be swapped for a 13 incher with some creativity and the flywheel needs to be swapped...is it really 80lbs???? There's probably a wieght possibility of 3700lbs, if I'm not completely insane but more tire is needed.

I'll do more homework and see what can be done. It may just be an interesting summer.....if I can explain to my wife why the new $50K car NEEDS to be gutted. "Lighter is safer, honey!" Wish me luck.

Be good,
ace996
 

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ace996 said:
Thanks for all the info, V-pilots. It sounds like there is potential with the platform. I am concerned that A-stock would not be the place for me, as the S2Ks in my region are fierce and the V doesn't have the ability to run enough tire to make up for the weight. The torque curve is desireable, though and it'd be nice to have power on demand.

I'm curious as to just how good a V can be with the proper suspension goodies. A bigger set of anti-roll bars and stiffer springs and shocks would probably open up a good deal of potential for the V. Now I play the waiting game and see who will address the suspension issue...Eibach, H&R, Koni, ect. I saw that Lund has a fitment for the CTS with Eibach coilovers but there is no other info to be found other than a picture on their site.

Weight would need to be lost. I figure there's probably +20lbs of diet in the runflats, a similiar amount in the exhaust, and those seats are probably a ton.
The rear brake rotor could be swapped for a 13 incher with some creativity and the flywheel needs to be swapped...is it really 80lbs???? There's probably a wieght possibility of 3700lbs, if I'm not completely insane but more tire is needed.

I'll do more homework and see what can be done. It may just be an interesting summer.....if I can explain to my wife why the new $50K car NEEDS to be gutted. "Lighter is safer, honey!" Wish me luck.

Be good,
ace996
In looking at the rules, it seems as though the CTS-V would be in ESP (all American sedans over 3.0L not otherwise classified)--it's not listed in any of the other SP classes. In ESP, you still have the STi problem to deal with. With SP mods, STis are going to pose an even bigger problem for the CTS-V than in A stock, I would think.

Even in SP, though, you can't change brake sizes.

I guess you'd be talking about E Prepared, but by the time you get there you are talking serious coin to be competitive.
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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Discussion Starter #11
JST, it is not the STis that worry me in ESP, it is the Evos. They can run tires up to and beyond 275width, and at several hundred pounds less weight. The STis can run only 255 max tire without bodymodifications but, again, with much less weight and power to all four tires.

I'm sure that no matter what I do to the V I will not be the most competitive in the class, as the weight/tire limitations are still there. However, with a little work, perhaps the V would rattle a few egos!!

Now, I'm wondering if it is financially feasable to undertake this journey. Rims/tires/swaybars/coillovers/exhaust(for the much safer weight savings, of course :p ) is going to be a consideration....

STill debating,
ace996
 

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ace996 said:
JST, it is not the STis that worry me in ESP, it is the Evos. They can run tires up to and beyond 275width, and at several hundred pounds less weight. The STis can run only 255 max tire without bodymodifications but, again, with much less weight and power to all four tires.

I'm sure that no matter what I do to the V I will not be the most competitive in the class, as the weight/tire limitations are still there. However, with a little work, perhaps the V would rattle a few egos!!

Now, I'm wondering if it is financially feasable to undertake this journey. Rims/tires/swaybars/coillovers/exhaust(for the much safer weight savings, of course :p ) is going to be a consideration....

STill debating,
ace996
Honestly, if being competitive in autocrossing is one of your key concerns, I'd pick a different platform. What about a 330i (non-Performance Package)? Or possibly a G35 sedan? Either of those might provide you with the space you need, while still being classed in a place where they could be competitive with reasonable mods. The new 330, available in a couple of months, will probably advance the bar even further, though it's not clear where it will be classed.

OTOH, if you like the way the V drives on the street and just want to screw around a bit with autocrossing for the hell of it (essentially the boat I am in), there's no reason to let classing issues stop you from buying one.
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I wish I could just screw around, as the V is reallya dream come true. The thing is that I am too competitive and wouldn't have fun. I sold my A4 to get the Spyder to autox. I love it when Vipers, Vettes, Porsches realize that a japanese 120whp convertible spanked them.

I am an instructor athe SCCA and BMWCCA and have driven both 330 and G35, great cars...but I hunt for FTD and any bimmer short of a prepped M3 is not worth it. I wish BMW had the E46 M3 in sedan, I'd own one now if that was the case, but it looks like the STi is gaining ground. It's tunable and at $20K less than the V, a more value-based platform from which to build. And I hear they aren't too shabby when the weather goes bad...something about them Europeeons racing them in snow:cookoo: :cookoo: :cookoo:

I'm still a couple months away from the trigger pulling time, and if I decide to race my Ducati again then all bets are off, I'll be getting a pickup...or a van down by the river...signing divorce papers:eek: .

What to do....,
ace996
 

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ace996 said:
I wish I could just screw around, as the V is reallya dream come true. The thing is that I am too competitive and wouldn't have fun. I sold my A4 to get the Spyder to autox. I love it when Vipers, Vettes, Porsches realize that a japanese 120whp convertible spanked them.

I am an instructor athe SCCA and BMWCCA and have driven both 330 and G35, great cars...but I hunt for FTD and any bimmer short of a prepped M3 is not worth it. I wish BMW had the E46 M3 in sedan, I'd own one now if that was the case, but it looks like the STi is gaining ground. It's tunable and at $20K less than the V, a more value-based platform from which to build. And I hear they aren't too shabby when the weather goes bad...something about them Europeeons racing them in snow:cookoo: :cookoo: :cookoo:

I'm still a couple months away from the trigger pulling time, and if I decide to race my Ducati again then all bets are off, I'll be getting a pickup...or a van down by the river...signing divorce papers:eek: .

What to do....,
ace996
Go with the STi, and save your pennies and dimes for the rumored E90 M3 sedan. Or the M5 with the true manual transmission that BMWNA said is coming next year. :shocked2:
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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Discussion Starter #15
I stewed with this question for some time...today, I finally took the V for a test drive. I was very impressed with the V, great engine...compliant suspension...absolutely beautiful interior. There was a light rain today, and I didn't want to deeply explore the traction limits with the +50yr old salesman , who was still very uncomfortable even after our drive, but I was very surprised at how the car handles for such weight. He asked what I was doing when I turned off the stability control, "nothing...just leaving the babysitter home...don't worry, I'll be gentle" :eek:

I really wish I wasn't so impressed with the car, as I financially didn't want to like it this much. It handled much better than I had thought and the engine sounds were soul-stirring. I envy you V-pilots, as there is something special about this car. Now I have to crunch some numbers....

Be good,
ace996
 

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CTS-V
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I had the same dilema. I had a 2002 E46 M3 and when my daughter was born, bending over and putting her in and out of the car became less and less fun. I test drove pretty much everything out there to find a 4 door performance car. Nothing! S4, AMGs, Volvo 60R, etc. They all did nothing for me. Finally decided to get an SUV and a 04 Honda S2000. Now 1.5 year half later I got rid of the S2000 and just bought the V. Couldn't be happier!!! I think it'll perform pretty well in track events and autocross with the right mods. It already handles very well for a stock car. In fact, my wife likes the V more than the M3 and she used to love the M3.
 
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