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'95 Concorse and '96 DeVille
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Gentlemen:

I have been having a very difficult time ascertaining if a 2004 LD8 N* 4.6 Engine will accept my 1995 4.6 N* Intake, Exhaust, accessories and electronics? Will fit-up with my 1995 DeVille Concourse?

What modifications if any will be necessary to make this update in our car. Car has close to 200,000 miles which is why I am considering a "Mr. Goodwrench" Engine.

Local Dealer not much help, I know it is a different part number. BUT WILL IT WORK?

Yes, I read about a 200 posts. I need the voice of experience, here fellas. Parts books may give the numbers, but no one at the local dealer has any experience dating back to 1995.

I left GM dealerships in 1988 when I retired from being a Line Mechanic.

Thanks, guys,
Tom
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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68,458 Posts
Re: Longblock swop 2004 to 1995 4.6 fwd possible with 95 electronics?

There is no way on earth that swap will work. 1996 saw the change to OBD-II diagnostics and engine controls. 1996 was a different engine design change. 1998 was another. 2000 was a radical change involving the entire engine and controls systems.

Nothing but 1995 and pre- fits a 1995. The 2000+ ignition system and triggers is radically different from pre-2000. The 1995 uses an ECU - Engine Control Unit; The 1998+ use a PCM - Powertrain Control Module - a PCM will not talk to an ECM engine.
 

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Re: Longblock swop 2004 to 1995 4.6 fwd possible with 95 electronics?

Duh !!! Where was it ??? (Bad night ...........)
 

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98 DeVille, 97 DeVille d'Elegance
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Down in N* forum there is an interchange thread. Some bits may fit but the engines are very different to the point most things don't swap.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
Re: Longblock swop 2004 to 1995 4.6 fwd possible with 95 electronics?

nope - not gonna work -
 

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'95 Concorse and '96 DeVille
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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Longblock swop 2004 to 1995 4.6 fwd possible with 95 electronics?

Thanks for the replies. Perhaps I did not make it clear, that the long block from 2004 production year, was designed for engine replacement by General Motors, Cadillac Division-- Mr. Goodwrench. It is a Mr. Goodwrench FACTORY NEW engine. I figured with nearly 200 thousand miles on mine, that since I am detecting CO2 in the cooling system, it may be just as well to replace the whole thing. I did the Blue to Yellow fluid test, and it turned a very Light Green.

GM Parts man at local dealer says the assembly is that dreaded DISCONTINUED. I, after finding a source for the 2004 engine, figured that the physical properties of the 2004, other than the Intake, Exhaust, and such would be the same. I planed to use the controls for the 1995 Concourse DeVille, and attach all the sensors to the 2004 assembly with the later production embellishments to the hardware construction designs being updated in the 2004 Mr. Goodwrench engine assembly.

It comes will all covers, and internal parts. I would have to reuse the Starter, Intake, fuel rails, Exhaust manifolds, and the various other associated parts. At least, this was the original plan.

Before I shell out the mega-bucks for a Cadillac Factory New assembly, with the 3 year warranty and mileage package, I joined this forum to learn the requirements and if it would work, I would make the purchase.

Being a retired Dealer Mechanic, but still possessing the tools and physical ability to do this work, and a nice shop to work on it in, I am [or was] toying with the idea of making a swap to an updated design. It sure appears that the thing will fit physically, and hook up. However, I was leery of the Variable Valve Timing features of the two engines. I planed to USE ALL OF MY ORIGINAL electronics.

So there you have it. New, Factory NEW assembly, for a FWD Deville designed for 2004-2005 going into a 1995 FWD Concourse DeVille.

Any of you fellas have a different answer to the original question now that you have this new information? If so, please, once more, give me a response. I have the car ready to disassemble on the rack in my barn and will proceed with the swap if most of you feel it may now be possible. I sure hoped this would work, but too cautious to take the expensive gamble.

The cradle will still come out of the car, and I will just get down and dirty, doing a repair--installing studs, new head gaskets and etcetera; OR install a new assembly if possible.

Sincere thanks,
Kindest regard,

Tom
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Re: Longblock swop 2004 to 1995 4.6 fwd possible with 95 electronics?

I have the exact same answer: It will NOT work.

(and, FYI, neither the 1995 nor the 2004 Northstar has VVT.)

Your "electronics" - please read post #2 again. So totally different between the engines, control systems, control modules and diagnostics that it is not even remotely funny.

Your 2004 "Goodwrench crate long block" fits 2000 - 2004 (maybe some 2005 Deville) FWD - and even the 2004 ignition coil setup is different from 2000-2003 and radically different from pre-2000. It will be physically impossible for you to use the intake manifold from a 1995 on a "2004". Different intake, different heads, different EGR, different fuel rails, different....... everything. ........ and remember: Your engine uses hydraulic lifter bucket cam followers; the 2000 went to roller cams.

Click my username, open the profile. Left column - 2 albums, 6 pages of 2000+ Northstar stuff. Compare the engine and parts pictures and schematics with your 1995 layout. Night and day.
 

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98 DeVille, 97 DeVille d'Elegance
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Answer the same if complete or partial engine... Not going to work. Try and find a replacement for that year (rebuilt or new) is your best bet.
 

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'95 Concorse and '96 DeVille
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Discussion Starter #10
SUBMARINER 409, JAYOLDSCHOOL, RODNOKØ1, and BASSCATT:

Thanks to all of you guys who are in the know. Now, I will therefore repair my 1995. I plan to replace the head bolts with studs.

Thanks a million to you guys who have taken the time to respond to my queries. Planning to use 1st quality parts and take my time. Not working "flat rate" on this one.

Regards,
Tom
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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For your 1995 rebuild - pay very close attention to the 4 cams and the 32 cam followers (lifters). Once those follower faces begin to score they not only wear through but also ruin the cam lobes. Same for the 3 timing chain guide/tensioner sets - the nylon slippers.

May I suggest a dry run through the GM service manual set - either hard copy from eBay or online from
www.alldatadiy.com (the GM manuals plus a LOT more - and it's updated (sort of) where the paper manuals are not.)

There are a lot of special techniques and procedures - for starters, the oil pump is driven by crank pulley torque friction: Do it a little wrong and you have no oil pressure at startup.

Also, look at your vehicle VIN - the 8th character is the powertrain identifier:

A Y is the 275 hp/3.11 final drive economy setup
A 9 is the 300hp/3.71 final drive "performance" setup

...................and there ARE some parts differences between the two VIN designations The VIN character will tell you which engine your car has - best to know now.
 

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2011 DTS Premium w/1SD | 1999 Deville Base (RIP @179K Miles)
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Didn't the 300Hp Northstar debut in the 1996 model year concours? I thought the 1995 model had the 4.9 for base and 275Hp Northstar for the concours.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
Re: Longblock swop 2004 to 1995 4.6 fwd possible with 95 electronics?

Perhaps I did not make it clear,
your original post WAS perfectly clear -
you want to install a 2004 engine into a 1995 car -

the engine BLOCKS are too different to modify -
and are NOT compatible -
 
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