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2011 DTS
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Discussion Starter #1
I loved my 2015 XTS even though after I bought it, Cadillac updated the CUE system to include Apple CarPlay and some other nice features in subsequent years. And of course you couldn't upgrade the prior versions of CUE at any price. But I planned to buy a new Cadillac in 2019 so no worries.

Then, a few months ago, as I started contemplating whether I wanted to buy a new CT6 or go to a new XTS, Cadillac announces that they're abandoning sedans and moving to all crossovers or SUV's. For a number of reasons I want to stay with a luxury 4 door sedan. And I don't want to buy one that will drop in value faster than it should because it's the end of the line.

So I looked at everything from a Jaguar (I've had 3 in the past) to a Lincoln Continental. A friend who used to only drive BMW pushed me to look at Genesis and I was shocked at the value. For $56K I got a G80 3.8L with both the Ultimate and Sport packages. It has the quietest cabin I've ever been in and more options than I've been able to learn in the few weeks I've had it. Loved my Caddy and would have stayed in the family but don't love the direction Cadillac has chosen to go. I would have remained a loyal customer but like folks who loved Pontiac or Oldsmobile, there's no love from the other side. I'll still have GM in the garage. A 2011 Corvette Grand Sport LT3 with a 6 speed manual and just under 12,000 miles. But it will be my last GM vehicle.

Has anybody else been as disappointed in the move away from sedans as I have?
 

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2017xts vsport platinum, 2011EXT, gt500
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1,019 Posts
In always amazed with folks that post on a Cadillac enthusiast forum to say they didn't like the xts,won't buy another gm product,and has bought a Korean car,whose country is ripping us off,just like China,only on different scale.i used to compete with Korea and Chinese in telecom market,and they both had huge tariffs on incoming product to their country,and would subsidize exports to the US.
 

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2011 DTS
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6 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Did you actually read my post or just decide to get angry and vent? I loved the XTS. I loved the CUE system. I have had more than 1 Cadillac and intended to buy another. But I don't want a SUV or Crossover. My post was to ask a question. Does the decision for Cadillac to abandon sedans bother others. You, apparently not. Me it did so I went to another vehicle. As to your political thoughts, you'd be better served posting them on the FAUX News website. Global business comes with issues in every market but if you're there then you're there to compete. I'm assuming you did well.
 

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2016 XTS luxury, 1995 Sedan Deville Base 4.9 l
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95 Posts
I too am really disappointed that there will be no more Cadillac sedans. I test drove an XT5 prior to buying my XTS in 2016, and was disappointed in the ride. I would be in the market to buy another Cadillac sedan in a few years but I guess I will need to search elsewhere for a comfortable sedan. Going to look up the genesis g80.
 

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2015 XTS Premium
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1,182 Posts
What's ridiculous about it is that they're making expensive and permanent changes due to a fad. Gas prices are low, so SUVs are popular. What happens when gas prices are back to nearly $4 a gallon? Everyone's going to be looking for cars again and GM and Ford are going to have nothing for them. It's one thing to re-allocate production - commit more resources to SUV production and reduce car production, but to completely ELIMINATE entire car lines? Poor judgement, and it's going to come back to bite them hard.

Conversely, for Genesis to have nothing but cars at this point is embarrassing. I know they are a new-ish brand but holy crap, they are getting raped by not having SUVs. Seems like they are no smarter than Cadillac.
 

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2000 Deville DHS
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792 Posts
You do know there are two cars in the pipeline right? CT4, CT5
Those are going to be cars? Oh wait, I might’ve mistaken them for the XT4 & XT5... Wait, what the hell am I talking about?

I don’t even know what the hell I’m talking about with these stupid names they’ve come up with. XT? CT? What the hell does any of that even mean? Whoever came up with these dumb names should’ve never been hired. I hear it’s some French guy that came from Infiniti.

As far as Cadillac letting us down by moving away from cars, count me in. Remind me to shoot myself if you ever see me owning a Cadillac crossover or SUV in the future. They sold us out!
 

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2016 CTS 2.0 AWD Luxury
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953 Posts
ELDORADO2K,

I'm with you on the alphabet soup names. I think XTsomething is the utility vehicle and CT is the car. Don't quote me on that. Can't say I actually care. I preferred the names. Maybe my fondness for names is the association with good Caddys. Quite frequently when I enter or leave my garage I automatically say 'it's a good thing you're pretty" to that bucket of bolts GM sold me as a Cadillac.

I'm so happy I had a chance to drive/own the great ones. Still swoon whenever I see a traditional Cadillac.
 

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2016 Escalade ESV, 2017 GMC Sierra 6.2
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1,794 Posts
Cadillac is not abandoning sedans by any stretch of the imagination. They will always have a four door sedan in their lineup. But the market has spoken loud and clear that Americans prefer SUVs so Cadillac is focusing on getting some more on the market and reducing/redoing their sedans lineup.
Also, count me in on the dislike for alpha-numerical car names. If they change the Escalade to an XT8 or something...I’ll be very unhappy.
 

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2014 XTS Luxury Ruby Red
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184 Posts
I too traded my 2014XTS for a 2018G80 Sport 3.3TT. Love everything about the Genny, ride,build, and power are stellar.
A couple of things I miss from my Caddy is remote start on the FOB and Onstar. Genesis needs to work on their BlueLink and APP.
 

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2011 DTS
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6 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
What's ridiculous about it is that they're making expensive and permanent changes due to a fad. Gas prices are low, so SUVs are popular. What happens when gas prices are back to nearly $4 a gallon? Everyone's going to be looking for cars again and GM and Ford are going to have nothing for them. It's one thing to re-allocate production - commit more resources to SUV production and reduce car production, but to completely ELIMINATE entire car lines? Poor judgement, and it's going to come back to bite them hard.

Conversely, for Genesis to have nothing but cars at this point is embarrassing. I know they are a new-ish brand but holy crap, they are getting raped by not having SUVs. Seems like they are no smarter than Cadillac.
You could be right about no Crossovers or SUV's but Genesis as a separate company from Hyundai is relatively new and has shown a prototype SUV in auto shows. Rumor is one will be introduced next year. Why I switched from Caddy was they completely dropped sedans. My wife is in a wheelchair and it's easier for me to get her in and out of a vehicle that sits lower than the crossovers plus I just prefer sedans. German and Asian car makers seem to take a longer view and I feel more comfortable that Genesis will continue their sedan lines for a long time. Two things I preferred in my XTS: The rear seat backs folded down and in the G80 they don't. And believe it or not, the Genesis key fobs do not have a remote start feature. You can do a remote start through their Connected Services (Hyundai's alternative to OnStar) app but that's not as convenient as starting with a key fob. Seemed like a real oversight for a car loaded with so much good technology otherwise.
 

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2015 XTS Premium
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1,182 Posts
You could be right about no Crossovers or SUV's but Genesis as a separate company from Hyundai is relatively new and has shown a prototype SUV in auto shows. Rumor is one will be introduced next year. Why I switched from Caddy was they completely dropped sedans. My wife is in a wheelchair and it's easier for me to get her in and out of a vehicle that sits lower than the crossovers plus I just prefer sedans. German and Asian car makers seem to take a longer view and I feel more comfortable that Genesis will continue their sedan lines for a long time. Two things I preferred in my XTS: The rear seat backs folded down and in the G80 they don't. And believe it or not, the Genesis key fobs do not have a remote start feature. You can do a remote start through their Connected Services (Hyundai's alternative to OnStar) app but that's not as convenient as starting with a key fob. Seemed like a real oversight for a car loaded with so much good technology otherwise.
I know but my point is that to not have an SUV NOW is a disaster. They aren't a new company, just a new name. The sedans they have now are just rebadged Hyundais...hell they even existed as Hyundais BEFORE the Genesis name was spun off. Why not have a rebadged Santa Fe and Tucson? Seems insane.

I don't see any reason to feel comfortable that ANY automaker will continue building a full sedan lineup. It seems pretty clear to me right now that it's just a matter of time before everyone trims their sedan offerings to bare minimum.

No remote start on the fob would be a deal killer for me...but every brand seems to have their own unique absolutely mind-boggling mistakes so that's no surprise.
 

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'02 ETC CE, '04 CTS-V, '04 XLR, '13 XTS Platinum
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It's safe to say BMW will continue to build refined, full-sized sedans, (aka: Ultimate Driving Machines) along with a few other high-end automobile (Euro) companies until autonomous eco-eggs become the Next Big Thing. BMW has a long history of sticking to a standard naming convention over multi-generational vehicles, translating to evolutionary progress. Cadillac can't come close to their model longevity. Just when they start making headway, they change direction and start anew, still trying to play catch-up. Cadillac doesn't need to just outperform the Europeans, they must first outperform their past performance.

Eliminating Cadillac's full-sized sedan segment alienates a core demographic, (older, affluent buyers who want to haul friends with four sets of golf clubs to the course in comfort) that sustained the brand for decades. In twenty years, that demographic will be dying off, (golf is waning too) but it's still a large group with brand loyalty and the discretionary money to spend. I think the board at GM collectively shot themselves in the head with their decision to drop a full-size sedan (CT6) whose R&D was completed. Their strategy is purely reactive now, chasing trends, --as opposed to being proactive and innovating transformational technology. (Vibrating safety seats, rear view camera mirrors, and Super-Cruise being their biggest innovations in a long time.) As the market becomes increasingly saturated with look-alike SUVs, the driving experience (many of us enjoy) is giving way to the utility experience (how "Sport" came to be associated with Utility Vehicles is beyond my comprehension).

Electrification and autonomous driving IS NOT being clamored for by the general public, (sales prove it) so the Big Question is: Who's really driving the train the GM board boarded so abruptly? Had the government mandated stricter CAFE standards to force automakers to abandon combustion engines to force this strategy past current technology, I'd understand. While great on paper, electrification isn't the answer for climate-friendly energy anyway. (Fusion power is, but that's decades away.) Tesla has yet to turn a profit, and Musk's ego with the resulting hype has overshadowed his ability to deliver on many of his ideas, however appealing.

Cadillac plans to introduce two more sedans - a sub-sized (CT4) ATS replacement, (never a stellar-selling vehicle segment in their line-up) and a smaller version replacement (CT5) of the CTS, (as if it wasn't already small enough.) If you want to transport two or more passengers in comfort, Cadillac wants you to buy an SUV/CUV.

It's become increasingly obvious that Cadillac as an innovative brand is floundering leadership-wise. They've bet their big money on China, which is on even shakier financial footing than the US, and subject to anti-US backlash by their government if things really get ugly, really quick. Why US companies continue to transfer ANY technology to a country that is becoming increasing dystopian towards its citizens and laser-focused on surpassing the West, (they can stick with a plan while our politicians devour each other with drama instead of governance) is retarded. US companies are cutting their own throats for instant gratification (profits now) that will ultimately end in regret (or worse) later when China is positioned to dictate terms they can't ignore (or refuse.) And make no mistake about it, that IS The Plan boys and girls.

Why did I go off-topic with politics? Because when you get down to it, everything is connected. Blame it on Globalization if politics offends your sensibilities; they're inextricably intertwined. Until I see otherwise, I perceive GM as focusing more on the emerging Chinese market, (which is very interested in electrification and autonomously-linked vehicles, because at the end of the day for the Chinese government, it's all about control) at the expense of the US market, even though SUV's aren't as popular in China (yet). GM is looking 10-20 years out, (as they should) but the implications don't necessarily bode well for the US --in more ways than one.

And autonomous vehicles? Hell, we can't even get autonomous trains working properly in this country, and that's a lot easier to pull off by orders of magnitude.

In short, it's getting easier and easier to contemplate another brand when it's time to replace my current sedan for another vehicle I'm more confident will be produced (and refined) longer than one generation (ie: ATS, XTS, CT6.) I have one SUV in the garage; no need for two. YMMV.

CC

Editor's Note: Amended to include GM's (new) official stance (or spin) on the change of status of the CT6: Yesterday, it was announced the CT6 would remain in production after all, just not where it is now. The explanation was, "We didn't communicate this very well." . . .

Two months to roll back an announcement they were killing off their "halo" car?!!! Two days would have been embarrassing.

This speaks volumes regarding how out-of-touch with reality the current GM board really is.
 

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Prev: 2018 ATS 2.0T NOW: 2020 CT4-V JR
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Hyundai is sold next to Genesis in most locations, so they figure SUV buyers can get the Hyundai.

Cadillac did not cut cars. CT4 + CT5 should be ready for 2020. They are late as usual replacements for ATS + CTS.

I don't need a car as big as CT6, but it is disappointing to see it cut, when it's now better than ever for 2019, especially when now
all they have to do is built it for a few more years until the next full size car is ready. Cadillac has been scrambling to add SUVs,
late as usual. The GM story is late. When they catch other brands, the other brand already have something better ready to go.

Genesis looks like a good Cadillac replacement. G70 is like ATS and won MT Car Of The Year.
Genesis probably depreciates just as fast as a Cadillac.

My plan is getting a CT4 or CT5.


GenesisG70Forum.com - The Largest Hyundai Genesis G70 Forum, Community And Owner's Club
 

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2015 XTS Premium
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It's safe to say BMW will continue to build refined sedans, (ie: Ultimate Driving Machines) along with a few other high-end automobile (Euro) companies until autonomous eco-eggs become the Next Big Thing. BMW has a long history of sticking to a standard naming convention over multi-generational vehicles, translating to evolutionary progress. Cadillac can't come close to model longevity. Just when they start making headway, they change direction and start anew, still trying to play catch-up.
BMW is even more behind the times than Cadillac. That's why I came over FROM BMW to Cadillac.

But agree with you on China. That's why i'm intrigued to see if Trump is able to deliver on any of his promises. No one else has the balls to mess with China in terms of trade.
 

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14 XTS Premium, 16 Lincoln MKC Reserve AWD, 14 VW CC Executive
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It's safe to say BMW will continue to build refined sedans, (ie: Ultimate Driving Machines) along with a few other high-end automobile (Euro) companies until autonomous eco-eggs become the Next Big Thing. BMW has a long history of sticking to a standard naming convention over multi-generational vehicles, translating to evolutionary progress. Cadillac can't come close to model longevity. Just when they start making headway, they change direction and start anew, still trying to play catch-up.

Eliminating their full-sized sedan alienates a core demographic, (older, affluent buyers who want to haul friends with four sets of clubs to the course in comfort) that has sustained the brand for decades. In twenty years, that demographic will be dying off, (golf is waning too) but it's still a large group with the money to spend. I think the board at GM collectively shot themselves in the head with that decision. Their strategy is purely reactive now, chasing trends, (as opposed to inventing them with transformational innovation) that have been around since at least 1991 when Ford introduced the Explorer -the best-selling SUV ever. As the market becomes saturated with look-alike SUVs, the driving experience (many of us enjoy) is giving way to the utility experience (how "sport" reflects these vehicle's capability is beyond me).

Electrification and autonomous driving IS NOT being clamored for by the general public, (sales prove it) so who's really directing the plan the GM board has decided to embrace? Had the government mandated stricter CAFE standards to force automakers to abandon combustion engines to force this strategy past current technology, I'd understand. While great on paper, electrification isn't the last word on climate-friendly energy anyway. (Fusion power is, but that's decades away.) Tesla has yet to turn a profit, and Musk's ego has overshadowed his ability to deliver on many of his ideas, however appealing.

Cadillac plans to introduce two more sedans - a sub-sized (CT4) ATS replacement, (never a stellar-selling vehicle segment in their line-up) and a smaller version replacement (CT5) of the CTS, (as if it wasn't already small enough.) It's becoming more and more obvious that Cadillac as a brand is floundering leadership-wise. They've bet their big money on China, which is on even shakier financial footing than the US, and subject to anti-US backlash by their government if things really get ugly. Why US companies continue to transfer any technology to a country that is becoming increasing dystopian towards its citizens and laser-focused on surpassing the West, (they can stick with a plan while our politicians devour each other with drama instead of governing) is retarded. We're cutting our own throats for instant gratification (profits now) that will ultimately end in regret (or worse) later when China is positioned to dictate terms we can't ignore (or refuse.) And make no mistake about it, that IS The Plan boys and girls.

Why did I go off-topic with politics? Blame it on Globalization. Until I see otherwise, I perceive GM as focusing more on the emerging Chinese market, (which is very interested in electrification and autonomously-linked vehicles, because at the end of the day for them, it's always about control) at the expense of the US market, even though SUV's aren't as popular in China (yet). GM is looking 10-20 years out, (as they should) but the implications don't necessarily bode well for the US --in more ways than one.

In short, it's getting easier and easier to contemplate another brand when it's time to replace my current sedan for another vehicle I'm more confident will be produced (and refined) longer than one generation (ie: ATS, XTS, CT6,). I have one SUV in the garage; no need for two. YMMV.

CC
US Automobile manufactures have lost already and they don't even know it.

All the Euro Manufactures are in the middle of retooling, and retraining their workforce to build EV's, da USA is just pumping out the same old pick up's, SUV and Crossovers. Oil is a finite resource, and can be used to blackmail others who need it, in the early 70's the US Gov knew that and started the wheels in motion to go to solar, even going as far as to putting solar panels on the WH, but the administration that came into power in 1980 decided that oil was better and went out of their way to stop the advance of solar power in America and we are where we are at today.

VAG, Volkswagen Auto Group, has a number of EV cars and crossover's hitting the streets in the next 2 years, GM and Ford have bupkis.

The Porsche Tycan , 600hp EV sports car, hits the streets this year, the best GM or Ford has to compete is the Volt. GM can't even be bothered to build an Electric Vet or Camaro.

The point being the rest of the world is moving forward and America is proudly regressing for the time being.
 
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