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hmmm
How about devilles vs sevilles, I think I see more devilles.
If it was me, I'd take the STS....maybe they are rental or fleet cars.
Also Devilles are purchased by limo firms, hence more rolling around maybe?
How about devilles vs sevilles, I think I see more devilles.
If it was me, I'd take the STS....maybe they are rental or fleet cars.
Also Devilles are purchased by limo firms, hence more rolling around maybe?
nope, all the ones ive seen have had temp tags in the back. not many limo companies around here, like 1 or 2 maybe. well im sure there are more but you hardly ever see them. i cant even think of seeing but maybe two STS' at the Cadillac dealership. but on the road ive only seen two, well 1 in a parking lot and the other on the road.powerglide said:
I've yet to see a single one, whether here in the suburbs of Philly or at home in southern Delaware. Various STS's all the time though, nearly everywhere I'm at.
huh, must be a location kinda thing or something. i never see them. i havent seen one in about 2 months now... the last one i seen i posted about cause there were a whole bunch of other Caddies around, i think i called that thread "Cadillac show" but i dont remember.caddycruiser said:
Jesda-
I'm in St. Louis too, have seen one silver DTS in/around South city (Benton Park/Fox Park) area by my office at least 4 or 5 times now. It is always the same one, has the mustard and mayo's on it. Have also seen a red one out in Kirkwood once. Seems like a fair number of '05 STS on the road here - I stopped keeping count after the first 10 or so I noticed, and I've seen maybe 3 or 4 XLR's in the past year. I think I saw another DTS about a week or so ago, in black but I just got a brief glimpse as it went around a corner so I'm not entirely sure.
I am suddenly seeing a lot more SRX's, and the CTS is almost ubiquitos here from my observations. I am seeing more CTS V's (though I think some are fake - dressed up in the V grille without the power to back it up) and Escalades are everywhere.
It is funny how there seem to be a load of 93-2004 STS and as many or more Devilles, though it varies widely by neighborhood. Also there are a lot of Eldo's in STL, I wonder if they are as common elsewhere. At least it's nice to see a lot of Cadillacs around. They must be doing something right...
KDirk
I'm in St. Louis too, have seen one silver DTS in/around South city (Benton Park/Fox Park) area by my office at least 4 or 5 times now. It is always the same one, has the mustard and mayo's on it. Have also seen a red one out in Kirkwood once. Seems like a fair number of '05 STS on the road here - I stopped keeping count after the first 10 or so I noticed, and I've seen maybe 3 or 4 XLR's in the past year. I think I saw another DTS about a week or so ago, in black but I just got a brief glimpse as it went around a corner so I'm not entirely sure.
I am suddenly seeing a lot more SRX's, and the CTS is almost ubiquitos here from my observations. I am seeing more CTS V's (though I think some are fake - dressed up in the V grille without the power to back it up) and Escalades are everywhere.
It is funny how there seem to be a load of 93-2004 STS and as many or more Devilles, though it varies widely by neighborhood. Also there are a lot of Eldo's in STL, I wonder if they are as common elsewhere. At least it's nice to see a lot of Cadillacs around. They must be doing something right...
KDirk
2016 XTS4, 2010 DTS (gone), '07 STS4 (gone), '03 DHS (gone)
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724 Posts
Just got back from Vegas and saw a bunch of '06 DTSs there. Some nice colors, some so-so. It does look sharp though.
While at the outlet mall south of 215 I saw parked next to each other a CTS, a new STS, and an "old" STS. I think that it explained why there are so few new STSs on the road: they are basically the same size as the CTS and yet a whole bunch of $$$ more; you lose an awful lot of space when you compare with the "old" STS.
While at the outlet mall south of 215 I saw parked next to each other a CTS, a new STS, and an "old" STS. I think that it explained why there are so few new STSs on the road: they are basically the same size as the CTS and yet a whole bunch of $$$ more; you lose an awful lot of space when you compare with the "old" STS.
Kdirk: I saw the greatest number of Devilles, Sevilles, and Eldos when I was driving around the U-city loop a week ago. But here in Creve Coeur it seems like the Grand Marquis and MB C-class and E-class are the most common luxury rides. And indeed the 05+ STS has suddenly become very popular.
Someone who lives near me has a red XLR. I must find out who and meet them.
Someone who lives near me has a red XLR. I must find out who and meet them.
Jesda -
Interesting that there are that many in the Loop area, I don't get over there too often but it's nice to know that there are so many in such a happening part of town. That bodes well for Cadillac I suppose, from a demographic standpoint.
I saw a dark red XLR out in Fenton over the weekend [top down], driver was a middle aged lookng guy with a BABE in the passenger seat. Only thing missing was a license plate that read "THE MAN". It was a mighty fine looking piece - the car that is. The babe was alright too!
I live in Kirkwood, there are a lot here too - pretty good split of retirees with Devilles and lot's of 30-40 something's with STS's and CTS's as well. Then again, there are a ton of ricers, but that's not surprising given the number of high-school aged drivers in the vicinity. No offense intended to any of the fine teenaged Cadillac drivers who may read this!
KDirk
Interesting that there are that many in the Loop area, I don't get over there too often but it's nice to know that there are so many in such a happening part of town. That bodes well for Cadillac I suppose, from a demographic standpoint.
I saw a dark red XLR out in Fenton over the weekend [top down], driver was a middle aged lookng guy with a BABE in the passenger seat. Only thing missing was a license plate that read "THE MAN". It was a mighty fine looking piece - the car that is. The babe was alright too!
I live in Kirkwood, there are a lot here too - pretty good split of retirees with Devilles and lot's of 30-40 something's with STS's and CTS's as well. Then again, there are a ton of ricers, but that's not surprising given the number of high-school aged drivers in the vicinity. No offense intended to any of the fine teenaged Cadillac drivers who may read this!
KDirk
I think the only thing that's really "OFFICIAL" here is that GM is on their way "out." of the car building world after Delphi went belly-up today. GM is w/o a doubt in TROUBLE. LOSING money, all the while they were selling these high profit margin "tanks" (SUV's) like hot cakes? Are you kidding me? What's more important here than the DTS is where's GM heading? It's a question many in this country are afraid to answer. Average hourly wage in China is $1.97. "Food for though" w/o a doubt sports fans.
GM has it's problems, to be sure. But, I don't think they're going out. Here's the situation I foresee:
GM already is at (or very near) the point of heaving a great, competitive product line across all brands, so the product is no longer the issue that is killing them. The three big issues are:
1. Consumer perception (i.e. let's kiss a$$ to the imports by way of blind devotion, but bash domestics just because we _THINK_ they suck, and it's the stylish thing to do anyway) is in need of improvement. Biggest way to do this is to improve the product. They've done that and it is just barely starting to get into people's minds that GM is making really good vehicles again. Only time, and continued perserverence on GM's part at developing and maintaining a desireable product line will fully solve this problem.
2. Service (or lack thereof). This also plays into consumer perception and we've all read the horror stories on these very forums about unsolved malfunctions and poor treatment by the dealers and customer service line. This HAS to be fixed ASAP, or it will keep people away even if the cars are outstanding. Much of this lies with the dealers to sort out, and GM has less direct control at solving this than the product quality issues. After all, the dealer is more or less independently owned and has to CYA for themselves to protect their own bottom line.
3. Cost of doing business. As pointed out in the above post, labor in China (among others) is dirt cheap. Yes this is a problem, and not one that GM can solve. The USA has to decide if we want to sacrifice our standard of living in the long term to maintain our standard of living in the short term. Shortsightedness seems to be a perrenial problem for America, we seem to have a habit of shooting ourselves in the foot when it comes to lowering costs and making goods more afforable; which is done by exporting the labor involved in making the goods, while eliminating the good dometic jobs that enabled the people who used to have them to live well. Kind of a paradox.This is more a political than a corporate problem, and it seems that it will be coming to a head in the not so distant future.
That brings me to this point, which is that someone (and my bet is on the UAW et al) is going to get hosed sooner than later like it or not. What Delphi has done is to file for bankruptcy protection in order to cut off a lot of overly expensive, underperforming chaff. Make no mistake, this is about expense reduction, and the pay/benefits of all the tens of thousand of employees affected are the key issue here. GM is in the same boat.
Back in the day when GM could absorb the hit from fattened-up contracts negotiated by the labor unions, no one cared and livin' was easy. Then something happened. The imports (namely Toyota) got bigger and more profitable while keeping their expenses under control (even with using union labor in US assembly plants) and GM started to bleed more money than it could cover.
In essence, GM was muscled onto overpromising pay/benefits based on circumstances and conditions that existed in a different kind of economy than we have now. So, we have the consequences for poor decisions made years and decades ago based on precedents that were set when the issue of foreign competition, and domestic profitability, was not as much of an issue as it is now.
Add to that the fact that they made products that were substandard, or average at best for most of the 80's and into the 90's, and the company - is big as it was - could no longer maintain a healthy balance sheet.
Now it's time to put up or shut up, and by my thinking, GM will eventually win major concessions from the unions in terms of pay and benefits going forward as their very jobs will depend on it. If this doesn't happen and GM cannot get more competitive on cost by shedding expeneses that their competitors don't have, then they too will file for bankruptcy protection and will use this as the "out" to get rid of the bloat associated with doing business under 1960's style rules. Think about it from the standpoint of the plant worker. Either you give up something and keep your job, or you stand your ground and decimate your employer financially and loose your job. As the saying goes, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
This is what has to happen for GM to survive as a viable US atuomaker in the long term, like it or not. If they cannot regain the ability to be profitable this way then they will force the issue by doing it by way of a bankruptcy restructuring. Either that, or they will go the way of Chrysler and form an unholy alliance with one of their foreign competitors.
Delphi will emerge from this current mess as a leaner, meaner company that will turn a profit, albeit with a smaller workforce making less pay and benefits. That is the whole objective, and it will be achieved by using the bankruptcy as a means of escaping costs that they cannot possibly continue to incur.
We all should hope that GM can do this by less drastic means, or there are going to be a lot of casualties in the next decade as the house of cards finally collapses.
Ok, rant over.
KDirk
GM already is at (or very near) the point of heaving a great, competitive product line across all brands, so the product is no longer the issue that is killing them. The three big issues are:
1. Consumer perception (i.e. let's kiss a$$ to the imports by way of blind devotion, but bash domestics just because we _THINK_ they suck, and it's the stylish thing to do anyway) is in need of improvement. Biggest way to do this is to improve the product. They've done that and it is just barely starting to get into people's minds that GM is making really good vehicles again. Only time, and continued perserverence on GM's part at developing and maintaining a desireable product line will fully solve this problem.
2. Service (or lack thereof). This also plays into consumer perception and we've all read the horror stories on these very forums about unsolved malfunctions and poor treatment by the dealers and customer service line. This HAS to be fixed ASAP, or it will keep people away even if the cars are outstanding. Much of this lies with the dealers to sort out, and GM has less direct control at solving this than the product quality issues. After all, the dealer is more or less independently owned and has to CYA for themselves to protect their own bottom line.
3. Cost of doing business. As pointed out in the above post, labor in China (among others) is dirt cheap. Yes this is a problem, and not one that GM can solve. The USA has to decide if we want to sacrifice our standard of living in the long term to maintain our standard of living in the short term. Shortsightedness seems to be a perrenial problem for America, we seem to have a habit of shooting ourselves in the foot when it comes to lowering costs and making goods more afforable; which is done by exporting the labor involved in making the goods, while eliminating the good dometic jobs that enabled the people who used to have them to live well. Kind of a paradox.This is more a political than a corporate problem, and it seems that it will be coming to a head in the not so distant future.
That brings me to this point, which is that someone (and my bet is on the UAW et al) is going to get hosed sooner than later like it or not. What Delphi has done is to file for bankruptcy protection in order to cut off a lot of overly expensive, underperforming chaff. Make no mistake, this is about expense reduction, and the pay/benefits of all the tens of thousand of employees affected are the key issue here. GM is in the same boat.
Back in the day when GM could absorb the hit from fattened-up contracts negotiated by the labor unions, no one cared and livin' was easy. Then something happened. The imports (namely Toyota) got bigger and more profitable while keeping their expenses under control (even with using union labor in US assembly plants) and GM started to bleed more money than it could cover.
In essence, GM was muscled onto overpromising pay/benefits based on circumstances and conditions that existed in a different kind of economy than we have now. So, we have the consequences for poor decisions made years and decades ago based on precedents that were set when the issue of foreign competition, and domestic profitability, was not as much of an issue as it is now.
Add to that the fact that they made products that were substandard, or average at best for most of the 80's and into the 90's, and the company - is big as it was - could no longer maintain a healthy balance sheet.
Now it's time to put up or shut up, and by my thinking, GM will eventually win major concessions from the unions in terms of pay and benefits going forward as their very jobs will depend on it. If this doesn't happen and GM cannot get more competitive on cost by shedding expeneses that their competitors don't have, then they too will file for bankruptcy protection and will use this as the "out" to get rid of the bloat associated with doing business under 1960's style rules. Think about it from the standpoint of the plant worker. Either you give up something and keep your job, or you stand your ground and decimate your employer financially and loose your job. As the saying goes, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
This is what has to happen for GM to survive as a viable US atuomaker in the long term, like it or not. If they cannot regain the ability to be profitable this way then they will force the issue by doing it by way of a bankruptcy restructuring. Either that, or they will go the way of Chrysler and form an unholy alliance with one of their foreign competitors.
Delphi will emerge from this current mess as a leaner, meaner company that will turn a profit, albeit with a smaller workforce making less pay and benefits. That is the whole objective, and it will be achieved by using the bankruptcy as a means of escaping costs that they cannot possibly continue to incur.
We all should hope that GM can do this by less drastic means, or there are going to be a lot of casualties in the next decade as the house of cards finally collapses.
Ok, rant over.
KDirk
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199 Posts
Kdirk,
You are right on the money. However, I see GM declaring Chapter 11 within 12 months. They have incurred staggering losses this year with the fire sale they had this summer.
They do have good product out and in the pipeline. However, they are still counting on full size SUV's to make the money they need to operate at a profit. The only problem is that this whole new generation of SUV's could not come out at a worse time. With gas over $3.00 a gallon in many areas of the country, the market is not going to be there. If people perceive that buying a full size SUV right now is not the smart thing to do, they won't. We all know gas prices will not stay at this level, but people only look at the present.
GM and the other domestic manufacturers should have stood up to the unions years ago. But it was easy to keep signing those ridiculous contracts as long as they were making money. Nothing ever changes in American business, we only look at the short term and never the long term goal of sustained profitability.
I read today that Apple has more product on order than it can fill, but their stock dropped because of Wall Street expectations. What's up with that? You can't make your parts fast enough, pricing is not an issue and your stock drops.
Only in America.
You are right on the money. However, I see GM declaring Chapter 11 within 12 months. They have incurred staggering losses this year with the fire sale they had this summer.
They do have good product out and in the pipeline. However, they are still counting on full size SUV's to make the money they need to operate at a profit. The only problem is that this whole new generation of SUV's could not come out at a worse time. With gas over $3.00 a gallon in many areas of the country, the market is not going to be there. If people perceive that buying a full size SUV right now is not the smart thing to do, they won't. We all know gas prices will not stay at this level, but people only look at the present.
GM and the other domestic manufacturers should have stood up to the unions years ago. But it was easy to keep signing those ridiculous contracts as long as they were making money. Nothing ever changes in American business, we only look at the short term and never the long term goal of sustained profitability.
I read today that Apple has more product on order than it can fill, but their stock dropped because of Wall Street expectations. What's up with that? You can't make your parts fast enough, pricing is not an issue and your stock drops.
Only in America.
60 Special-
Yeah, could happen within 12 months - I will be watching things closesly now with Delphi's announcement the other day, and the fact that it may put GM on the hook for a lot of benefits cost due to the way the spinoff was originally structured.
I think chapter 11 is probably inevitable because GM will not get the concessions from UAW that it needs voluntarily (i.e. through negotiation) in time to save the ship and will have to force the issue sooner than later. The issue of reliance on SUV's for profits and the poor timing of launching new SUV models in the midst of a gas price crisis is also a major concern. One that I might add may well accelerate the need for a bankruptcy restructuring at GM.
Of course, if it does happen that way then GM will come out much better positioned to do business in the future. On the down side, I predict there will be some very rough times ahead though for the company and the workers.
Ditto on your observations on Apple; I can't beleive that Wall $treet banged 'em up so bad for not selling 7.5 Mil Ipods [expected] vs. 6.5 Mil [actual]. Just stupid, considering that it was Apple's best quarter in who knows when. Apple is at the top of their game and the greedy b^$+^rd$ still can't be satisfied.
Well, now that this thread has been sucessfully hijacked [and gone well off topic I suppose] with the weekly financial report <chuckle> hopefully we can get back to the original point of this thread - the 2006 DTS and it's sightings on the road.
Returning you to regularly scheduled programming already in progress...
KDirk
Yeah, could happen within 12 months - I will be watching things closesly now with Delphi's announcement the other day, and the fact that it may put GM on the hook for a lot of benefits cost due to the way the spinoff was originally structured.
I think chapter 11 is probably inevitable because GM will not get the concessions from UAW that it needs voluntarily (i.e. through negotiation) in time to save the ship and will have to force the issue sooner than later. The issue of reliance on SUV's for profits and the poor timing of launching new SUV models in the midst of a gas price crisis is also a major concern. One that I might add may well accelerate the need for a bankruptcy restructuring at GM.
Of course, if it does happen that way then GM will come out much better positioned to do business in the future. On the down side, I predict there will be some very rough times ahead though for the company and the workers.
Ditto on your observations on Apple; I can't beleive that Wall $treet banged 'em up so bad for not selling 7.5 Mil Ipods [expected] vs. 6.5 Mil [actual]. Just stupid, considering that it was Apple's best quarter in who knows when. Apple is at the top of their game and the greedy b^$+^rd$ still can't be satisfied.
Well, now that this thread has been sucessfully hijacked [and gone well off topic I suppose] with the weekly financial report <chuckle> hopefully we can get back to the original point of this thread - the 2006 DTS and it's sightings on the road.
Returning you to regularly scheduled programming already in progress...
KDirk
I expect GM, as others have done, will turn over their pension obligations for the rank and file and low-mid level management to the US taxpayer and they'll renege on promised/contractual healthcare bennies.
Oh....and they'll keep the same incompetent management that got them into that situation. Then they'll reward themselves with bonuses and special pension plans.
What a country we've become.
Oh....and they'll keep the same incompetent management that got them into that situation. Then they'll reward themselves with bonuses and special pension plans.
What a country we've become.
FINALLY, saw one today. Was walking to class this morning (over the bridge and along the sidewalk), looked up, and the next car coming towards me was a slightly dirty black one with chrome factory wheels. Looked GREAT, and SO, SO much better than the "pumpkin face" '00-05 model.
Now, wonder how much longer until the next one....
Now, wonder how much longer until the next one....
man they are like... well to put it nicely "opinions" around here and we all know what opinions are like. i see them all the time. i saw a diamond white one with chrome wheels at a car show sunday and it was gorgeous, i want one so bad. it was parked next to a blue XLR and a diamond white Escalade. oh they werent owned by anyone, it was a "dealership car show" in the sense that all the local dealers were showcasing vehicles in one area. the XLR was parked next to the new Corvette and can you guess what vehicle got the most looks at the show? thats right boys and girls the XLR. i had my CTS parked next to the Cadillacs and it got a few views too. ha, good thing i cleaned it up this weekend.
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