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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I have a pretty good understanding of automatic trannys but...

I have been reading a lot about people "starting out in second gear." Do they mean to say that the gear selector is in "2" vs. "D" or "3"? Even still, at a stop and idleing dosn't the trany down shift to 1st. So you are always starting in first no matter where the gear selector is. Following the "start in 2nd" logic wouldn't your car start out in overdirve if it was in "D." But we know that isn't a fact. Someone please explain. Maybe my car(96 STS) is different. Hey please educate me I would like any tips for winning races and being faster off the line to beat rice and domestic. Should I hold the brakes? What RPM is best to launch the * at?

I admit I am a newbie at racing automatics. My first car is an old V8 Camaro with a 4spd . :burn:
 

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stswillie said:
Ok I have a pretty good understanding of automatic trannys but...

I have been reading a lot about people "starting out in second gear." Do they mean to say that the gear selector is in "2" vs. "D" or "3"? Even still, at a stop and idleing dosn't the trany down shift to 1st. So you are always starting in first no matter where the gear selector is. Following the "start in 2nd" logic wouldn't your car start out in overdirve if it was in "D." But we know that isn't a fact. Someone please explain. Maybe my car(96 STS) is different. Hey please educate me I would like any tips for winning races and being faster off the line to beat rice and domestic. Should I hold the brakes? What RPM is best to launch the * at?

I admit I am a newbie at racing automatics. My first car is an old V8 Camaro with a 4spd . :burn:
You put it in "2" and brake torque it to 1600 rpms for a great launch. You'll smoke the tires a little, but you'll get traction fast enough. I'm not altogether sure why "2" is better than OD, but I have a theory. 2nd gear redline is at about 80mph (correct me if I'm wrong here guys, but I think it's around there), so 2nd is a perfect gear for a quick drag. Starting in 3rd, the trans would shift out of 2nd too fast, thusly losing time around 50-60mph. Starting in first, you would top out around 45mph. Starting in OD, you would lose a little time in the initial launch while the computer tells the trans to downshift for power. Or maybe I'm just talking out of my a$$ and I just like the 1-2 tire chirp. :burn:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ok now I see the light :halo:

THe tranny is still starting in first but after brake torqueing it and launching, then quickly shifting into 2nd the car is held there(therefore not allowing it to shift to 3rd) because the gear selector is in 2.

So what are the RPMS at @80MPH in 2nd(in a 96 STS)? I am so worried about over-reving my over $12k car and grenading the motor
 

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I have a system that's very scientific. :rolleyes: Usually the competition is already a car length behind when the 1-2 shift occurs, so most times I don't have to push the car all the way through second to make my point (if I get in front of them at speed they ain't gonna win). On the rare occasion that I get some real comp, I run it up to what sounds like redline (or close to it) and shift to 3rd. Basically when the pitch of the rev starts to make me nervous :D . I wouldn't worry too much about accidentally bouncing off the rev limiter every once in a while in this car. Northstar strong like bull! :devil: Practice launching and going through second to the redline just so you know what it sounds like. That way you'll know what to listen for in a real race :coolgleam
 

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This thread might get more action in this forum. Anything non-model specific goes here.
 

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putting the shifter in 2 increases line pressure int he tranny and will wind out 1st gear and make the shift a little more firm....

Now, when I think you mean starting in 2nd... with your car, when you turn traction control off, it locks out 1st gear, so it really starts in 2nd... .I know it is stupid, and I have no idea why Cadillac did it, but that's the way it is....the thing that sucks is, when the car is tested and reviewed, the editiors will turn traction control off and then complain that it dosn't pull hard, and the 1/4 time is alot slower then what it should be.....

I know about brake tourqing and all.... but dosn't that put a tremundous amount of stress on the tranny?

my 1st gear last until 45mph and 2nd until 80mph.... my tires don't chip in the 1-2 shift.... I also have the 4.9 and the really laid back 2.73 FDR.....

if you leave the shifter in 1, and forget to upshift, I am pretty sure the computer will automatically upshift into 2nd IIRC..... and if you forget to upshift, then you'll just hit the revlimiter.... that wont do much harm.....
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Night Wolf said:
putting the shifter in 2 increases line pressure int he tranny and will wind out 1st gear and make the shift a little more firm....

Now, when I think you mean starting in 2nd... with your car, when you turn traction control off, it locks out 1st gear, so it really starts in 2nd... .I know it is stupid, and I have no idea why Cadillac did it, but that's the way it is....the thing that sucks is, when the car is tested and reviewed, the editiors will turn traction control off and then complain that it dosn't pull hard, and the 1/4 time is alot slower then what it should be.....

I know about brake tourqing and all.... but dosn't that put a tremundous amount of stress on the tranny?

my 1st gear last until 45mph and 2nd until 80mph.... my tires don't chip in the 1-2 shift.... I also have the 4.9 and the really laid back 2.73 FDR.....

if you leave the shifter in 1, and forget to upshift, I am pretty sure the computer will automatically upshift into 2nd IIRC..... and if you forget to upshift, then you'll just hit the revlimiter.... that wont do much harm.....
Ok so if I have this right, to make my car go the fastest it can I leave the traction controll on, leave the shifter in 2nd, and hold the brakes and gas(up to about 1600 RMP) light turns green, release the brake and floor it?
 

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Baisically. In addition, I would also play with launching a bit to find out where your tires start to spin. You want to stay right under that threshold, or else traction control kicks in and applies the brakes to that wheel. As soon as your rolling, floor it.
 

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yeah, I am not familer with traction control (my fathers '99 GTP has it, but I never drove that car) but in general, you want your tires to spin just a tad (chip em') it keeps the RPM's up and makes sure your getting the most aount of power you can... becuase when your tires are spinning, you can have all the power in the world and not really go any faster....

..... basically how I see it witht he traction control that you can't turn off without locking out 1st, is you want to "trick" it basically do as much as you can without spinning the tires to the point that it goes on and kills your accel.....

..... I love '96 STS, I really wanted one, but they were too much money, the thigns i don't like are OBDII (you really can't work on the car yourself much AFA diagnosing etc...) and the traction thing, I would really look into maybe finding a way to bypass the system completly, but have a switch so you can turn traction control on, bascially wire it up so that when you push the button to turn traction control off, it really turns it off without locking out 1st.....

....all traction control systems are differnt though, the old systems used only the brake,s and actually fought the engine (like what was avalibable on my car.... soo glad it dosn't have it) other just cut power back, and others use the ABS and cut power back and everything.....

.... my fathers '99 GTP, when you turn traction off, it really isn't off, whent he tires spin, it cut back on engine power, it WILL NOT engage the ABS to slow down the wheels, when TCS is on, beisdes cutting power back, it will engage the ABS to slow down the spinning wheel......

..... I like having no limit and just being able to hammer the gas and be able to spin the tires as long as the engine can pull..... which in the case with the 4.9 and certain road conditions, can be a really long time :D
 

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Ok, a bit off-topic, but...

Some Ford transmissions start in 2nd if the shift lever is in second. The C5 in my 85 LTD did this and the A4LD in my wife's 95 Aerostar does it, too. It makes for great starting in slippery conditions. The LTD was torquey enough that I didn't really notice starting in 2nd until it started winding out. The Aerostar - not so much.

Volvo used to offer (maybe they still do & other OEMs may also) a "winter traction" setting that locked out first gear for reduced wheelspin in slippery conditions.

I wish my STS would do this, too. I'd rather start in second than get overruled by the TCS.
 

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Turning the Traction off will "lock out" first gear, thus starting the car off in second. Kind of dumb, but that is the way it was designed, and a reason that the car is "known" to be slow.... Anyone who knows anything turns off the traction control to race..... Well that is not applicable in the STS and makes the car a full second slower in the 1/4 mile.

The Way to drive it and race is leave the TC on... Start off in 1st with a litte power against the converter, say about 1000 RPMs, Take off, switch to 2nd manually, right at red line, and the car will bark 2nd gear. Run it out in 2nd to red line, then 3rd.... If you are one of the fortunate few to have a Zrated car, run it out in 3rd to 4th and keep on going.

If you want to ditch the traction control... Take the BUS fuse out for it. The car will give you codes, but it wont have traction control. This is good for a 10th or so if you get it just right, or have trash tires that spin real bad... Just get new tires instead.
 

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Is it really better to start off in 1st and shift into 2nd rather than just starting in 2nd and letting the tires chirp naturally when it hits the first redline? I don't know about 4.9s, but I don't see a difference between the first and second way in my 96... other than it being more work.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
beemer2k said:
Is it really better to start off in 1st and shift into 2nd rather than just starting in 2nd and letting the tires chirp naturally when it hits the first redline? I don't know about 4.9s, but I don't see a difference between the first and second way in my 96... other than it being more work.
Hey Beemer (you have a 96 STS right? I am bringing over a conversation from another thread),
Did you computer have any problem when you removed the CAT. Unles I am mistaken there is an O2 sensor just before and after the CAT. I want to make a test pipe for my car but I am worried that the computer might have a problem with that. Do you know if there is a way to get the codes with our car's through the DIC aka pushing and holding some secret set of buttons on the dash?

Thanks
Willie
[email protected]
 

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yeah put the gear selector in 2, now on my beretta the reason to not start it in L is because the shift points from the 1 to 2 shift are actually different depending on what gear it is in on the selector. ill get an extra 200 RPM when i leave it in D then i do if i put it in low. it will also prevernt the car from going higher then second gear. so you wont run into power fall off during the upshifts to third and 4th gear.

on the traction control issue. Traction control systems do not use only brakes to stop the car, they use other methods such as fuel and timing retarding, as well as sometime upshifting the transmission.
 

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according to gm (in newer cars, not the "early" traction control cars) it uses brakes and retards the timing

my car now starts in 2nd.........and doesn't leave 2nd.........at all

wtf???


just found out whats wrong, at least its only $120 to fix if i do it myself!
 

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A little bit of insight I was told by a GM engineer. If you put the shifter into second it is almost like a launch mode the transmission makes the 1-2 shift faster and also raises the line pressure in the transmission. I have done all of this in all three of my caddys over time. I think they changed the tc off thing though my 03 DTS lets me select 1st gear traction off. Also the motor will never hit the rev limiter it will upshift automatically. If you are racing leave it in second the whole time the tranny will bang off every shift faster and with the higher line pressure. Another secret (and remember this only applies to 98 and after cars, I have tested this as well) is that if you need to slow down in a hurry pull it down into 1st gear and the tranny will automatically downshift at max revs allowed it will slow you down in a hurry!
 

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My CTS has a 5 speed auto. In sport mode it will take each gear to the redline and shift like a manual (engine braking, free wheeling, etc.). Traction control off still starts me in 1st and if I hold the TC button down for a few moments stability control can be switched off.

What would be my fastest launch? Turn off all big brother features, hit sport mode, and take the RPMs to the point where it puts out the most torque in drive? Or would I see a benefit with the 2nd gear limitation that you guys use? My first gear winds out so fast, maybe a 3rd gear limitation would be better?
 

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I heard that the N* actually shifts above redline, but the newer Caddys with the LCD gauges are designed to make it look like it is right at redline so people do not think the enigne is being over-revved....

if I put the shifter in 2...... I can sometimes feel a differncenot sure how much of one though

on my '93 I can dropt he shifter into 1st too, if I am below 80mph she'll drop into 2nd, and once I hit ike 35mph it goes into first....... although it is really bad for the engine/tranny and isn't good to do....

at the track, my first time racing, I got 2 runs in, my best time was [email protected] I launched really bad, almost full tank of gas etc...
 
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