Damn Rick, I thought the Jeep would have been faster. My Dad's '94 Club Wagon did it in that time and it has 200k miles on the original engine and trans.
Inline-6 + manual transmission + Rear Wheel Drive = BORN for the track!
15
A combo in such harmony. A smooth engine that is in perfect primary and secondary balance, a real manual gearbox - the center of a drivers performance vehicle for total control, and RWD, for the natural handling balance of things.
It was time I hit up the track again, last time I raced was Augest 2005, right before I left for Florida, that was my '89 Olds 88, which ran a 16.9 @ 79. My '79 Sedan DeVille ran a 17.5 @ 78, my '93 Coupe DeVille ran a 15.9 @ 85. These were all at Lebanon Valley Dragway in NY.
Alas, I own two vehicles that fit the title description:
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The Jeep won by default.
I was just driving around and ended up at the track, about 25 miles away. The girl said in 3yrs of working there, she never saw a Jeep run the track, and kept smiling at the situation. I was wearing shorts and sandles, she said I'd need pants, shoes and possibly doors. so I went back home, changed, loaded up my soft doors in the back, and grabbed my camera.
Before I hit the track I had to prep the Jeep for racing. That entailed getting a new air filter. The other one was replaced by the Jeep dealer when I bought it, and only had 9k on it, but after 3 dusty wheelin' trips, well, I just wanted to make sure I was getting all 190HP of fury. I'm going to keep the old air filter and use it for wheelin trips.
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Other side
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It's actually a nice track, every Friday night is test n tune, ~30mins from me... I should go more often as it's something to do. It was 92* and very high humidity though as there were storms all around us.
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Like any pro racer, enable to enter the proper class you must weigh your ride.
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About 1/2 tank of gas. As first it seemed low, but then I realized that I am running the safari top/wind jammer/duster cover, no rear seat and soft doors. Add ~120lbs for both full doors, ~60lbs for the rear seat and ~150lbs for hardtop.
Now I can go stage with the other racers
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It was a very low turnout tonight, as soon as I drove from the inspection point, which was just a really old timer looking at me sideways and asking "what are you gonna do with this thing!?" as he signed me off and wrote my number on the windsheild. Ummm what am I gonna do with it? WIN! DUH. I tried to get away without running doors, he said I'd need arm restraints, I said ok, I'll put the doors on.... he laughed when I opened up the tail gate and pulled out my soft doors. I unzipped the windows and had the wind jammer down tho.
Others warming up the track for me.
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Could there be a better match?
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Go anywhere, do anything!
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The Hummer ad makes it that much better. There WAS a Hummer/Chevy (still Chevy) dealer in my small town, they used to pride themselves in being the only Hummer dealer South of Atlanta or something like that. My town also prides itself in being the largest Coachmen RV dealer in the world.
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Born to win.
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I only got 2 runs in, because there was bad weather coming in, so they gave us a raincheck, I can go back any other Friday night for free. $20, got to run the Jeep twice, and I can go back.
Honestly, I couldn't get the darn grin off my face, and kept laughing to myself. Once people realized that I was actually racing it, I was getting interesting looks.
How did it do? Like I said, I only got 2 runs in. This was the first time I ever raced a manual trans vehicle at the track, as my others were automatic, that track was grippy and wheelspin off the line wasn't a problem. This track was slick.
My Jeep has 3.73 gears, and the 6spd has a very low 4.46:1 1st gear, so low, that I start off in 2nd on the street. Well, first run, I decided to rev it up a bit for the lauch, because there was a pro-street old Camaro next to me that was super loud, it was all I could hear. I revved it up to 3k or so, dumped the clutch and put it to the floor... big mistake as the tach just shot to the 5200RPM redline, stayed there while turning the right rear tire into a smoke machine the length of the spectator bleechers, I coudln't hear my engine, or the tires, over the engine of the Camaro, so when I looked at the tach and saw it at redline, then finally heard my tires, I barked 2nd.
The 2nd run I decided to go a bit easier, realizing that my 1st gear is very low. I simply transistioned right from clutch in, engine idle, to clutch out then wide open throttle.... I shoulda bumped the RPM up to ~1200-1500 first as I bogged it right off the line until it went from 750-1250RPM, then picked up fast, I didn't speed or power shift, but it still barked 2nd... much to my surprise it actually barked 3rd too. My 3rd runs to 70.
What did all of this produce? Firstly, a time that I figured was about right, but I was rather moreso amazed at how close.... and I mean CLOSE the two times were, especially given the vastly different launch techniques. I remember racing my '79 DeVille, and all 4 runs were 17.5-17.6.
The time/date is wrong on the ticket.
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Up close n personal:
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To understand this a bit more, we need to look at the AMC 4.0 I6 dyno graph:
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The old school pushrod, non cross-flow head I6 is a gas guzzling beast. It is NOT made for racing. I was shifting around 5k. My transmission is close-ratio, I think it may be quicker if I was to shift at 4500 or even 4000RPM, I was going to play around with it a bit more if I got more runs in.
To simply look at the 17.2s 1/4mi. one would think the Jeep is pitifully slow... but such is not the case. The 4.0 produces 80% of it's peak torque at idle Normally it hardly passes 3000RPM, even under merging, as there is just power at all engine speeds. Around town, between the torque curve and gearing, it feels rather quick, able to pull out and merge rather powerfully, in fact I'll go as far as saying it feels quicking in town/thru traffic then my BMW, which should be almost 2 seconds quicker down the 1420. I don't know 1/8 mi times that well, but I wonder how it compares to the 1/4? Under 60 the Jeep is very peppy.
With a proper launch I think I could have gotten it into the 16's, not to mention the very high heat/humidity factor. It'll be fun to bring the Jeep back after various mods are performed, just to see what sort of differences things make. I thought it was really cool - you can go and see muscle cars any night, how often is there a Jeep at the track? None the less, it was an interesting way to spend my Friday.... now I'm ready to spend the weekend at work.
It was time I hit up the track again, last time I raced was Augest 2005, right before I left for Florida, that was my '89 Olds 88, which ran a 16.9 @ 79. My '79 Sedan DeVille ran a 17.5 @ 78, my '93 Coupe DeVille ran a 15.9 @ 85. These were all at Lebanon Valley Dragway in NY.
Alas, I own two vehicles that fit the title description:
The Jeep won by default.
I was just driving around and ended up at the track, about 25 miles away. The girl said in 3yrs of working there, she never saw a Jeep run the track, and kept smiling at the situation. I was wearing shorts and sandles, she said I'd need pants, shoes and possibly doors. so I went back home, changed, loaded up my soft doors in the back, and grabbed my camera.
Before I hit the track I had to prep the Jeep for racing. That entailed getting a new air filter. The other one was replaced by the Jeep dealer when I bought it, and only had 9k on it, but after 3 dusty wheelin' trips, well, I just wanted to make sure I was getting all 190HP of fury. I'm going to keep the old air filter and use it for wheelin trips.
Other side
It's actually a nice track, every Friday night is test n tune, ~30mins from me... I should go more often as it's something to do. It was 92* and very high humidity though as there were storms all around us.
Like any pro racer, enable to enter the proper class you must weigh your ride.
About 1/2 tank of gas. As first it seemed low, but then I realized that I am running the safari top/wind jammer/duster cover, no rear seat and soft doors. Add ~120lbs for both full doors, ~60lbs for the rear seat and ~150lbs for hardtop.
Now I can go stage with the other racers
It was a very low turnout tonight, as soon as I drove from the inspection point, which was just a really old timer looking at me sideways and asking "what are you gonna do with this thing!?" as he signed me off and wrote my number on the windsheild. Ummm what am I gonna do with it? WIN! DUH. I tried to get away without running doors, he said I'd need arm restraints, I said ok, I'll put the doors on.... he laughed when I opened up the tail gate and pulled out my soft doors. I unzipped the windows and had the wind jammer down tho.
Others warming up the track for me.
Could there be a better match?
Go anywhere, do anything!
The Hummer ad makes it that much better. There WAS a Hummer/Chevy (still Chevy) dealer in my small town, they used to pride themselves in being the only Hummer dealer South of Atlanta or something like that. My town also prides itself in being the largest Coachmen RV dealer in the world.
Born to win.
I only got 2 runs in, because there was bad weather coming in, so they gave us a raincheck, I can go back any other Friday night for free. $20, got to run the Jeep twice, and I can go back.
Honestly, I couldn't get the darn grin off my face, and kept laughing to myself. Once people realized that I was actually racing it, I was getting interesting looks.
How did it do? Like I said, I only got 2 runs in. This was the first time I ever raced a manual trans vehicle at the track, as my others were automatic, that track was grippy and wheelspin off the line wasn't a problem. This track was slick.
My Jeep has 3.73 gears, and the 6spd has a very low 4.46:1 1st gear, so low, that I start off in 2nd on the street. Well, first run, I decided to rev it up a bit for the lauch, because there was a pro-street old Camaro next to me that was super loud, it was all I could hear. I revved it up to 3k or so, dumped the clutch and put it to the floor... big mistake as the tach just shot to the 5200RPM redline, stayed there while turning the right rear tire into a smoke machine the length of the spectator bleechers, I coudln't hear my engine, or the tires, over the engine of the Camaro, so when I looked at the tach and saw it at redline, then finally heard my tires, I barked 2nd.
The 2nd run I decided to go a bit easier, realizing that my 1st gear is very low. I simply transistioned right from clutch in, engine idle, to clutch out then wide open throttle.... I shoulda bumped the RPM up to ~1200-1500 first as I bogged it right off the line until it went from 750-1250RPM, then picked up fast, I didn't speed or power shift, but it still barked 2nd... much to my surprise it actually barked 3rd too. My 3rd runs to 70.
What did all of this produce? Firstly, a time that I figured was about right, but I was rather moreso amazed at how close.... and I mean CLOSE the two times were, especially given the vastly different launch techniques. I remember racing my '79 DeVille, and all 4 runs were 17.5-17.6.
The time/date is wrong on the ticket.
Up close n personal:
To understand this a bit more, we need to look at the AMC 4.0 I6 dyno graph:
The old school pushrod, non cross-flow head I6 is a gas guzzling beast. It is NOT made for racing. I was shifting around 5k. My transmission is close-ratio, I think it may be quicker if I was to shift at 4500 or even 4000RPM, I was going to play around with it a bit more if I got more runs in.
To simply look at the 17.2s 1/4mi. one would think the Jeep is pitifully slow... but such is not the case. The 4.0 produces 80% of it's peak torque at idle Normally it hardly passes 3000RPM, even under merging, as there is just power at all engine speeds. Around town, between the torque curve and gearing, it feels rather quick, able to pull out and merge rather powerfully, in fact I'll go as far as saying it feels quicking in town/thru traffic then my BMW, which should be almost 2 seconds quicker down the 1420. I don't know 1/8 mi times that well, but I wonder how it compares to the 1/4? Under 60 the Jeep is very peppy.
With a proper launch I think I could have gotten it into the 16's, not to mention the very high heat/humidity factor. It'll be fun to bring the Jeep back after various mods are performed, just to see what sort of differences things make. I thought it was really cool - you can go and see muscle cars any night, how often is there a Jeep at the track? None the less, it was an interesting way to spend my Friday.... now I'm ready to spend the weekend at work.
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G
Yeah that!
I ran 11.0 in the 1/8th mile in my bone stock '00 Camry 4 cylinder. Assuming I would have done the 1/4 mile in another 5.5 seconds, it would have run 16.5. I consider that car dog slow.
As the former owner of a '00 Camry LE 4-cylinder, driving it around lately has made me realize how slow it really is. I read somewhere the 0-60 time on that car was 10.9 seconds
LOL, the torque curve/aerodynamics favor rock crawling more then anything else!
But, yeah.... peppy around town, not a race car
3
The Town Car would have went, but the cute girl at the gate for the track was all excited about me bringing the Jeep and was happy to hear I'd get the things I needed and come back.... I couldn't let her down and instead roll up in da Mafia mobile! lol...nah, I was going to, but it was a decent day out and I was just having too much fun driving around with the doors off.
I plan on taking the Town Car, so I can see for myself how it compares to my other cars, and actually have a reference number when the Town Car is made out to be a Cessna 152 compared to the SR-71 speed of the FWB
BMW is the fastest... but like I said, darting around town/thru traffic, the Jeep feels more peppy, the BMW has a higher powerband, even tho the I6 has a much broader torque curve then that of the I4, which really needs to be at the upper end of the rev band to make good power.
I'm thinking about getting a chip for the BMW, supposed to gain 15hp, 15 ft-lbs torque, as well as raise the redline from 6500 to 6900 (which is cool) It's only $300 or so, but then I'd have to run premium gas, right now it runs on regular. Premium is now 30-40cents/gallon more then regular, and this is not a race car, it's more of a roadtrip/fun/highway cruiser.... so I don't know if I really want to commit to feeding it premium. Knowing me, I'll probably go ahead and do it.... The new ANSA Sport cat-back sounds so good, but is very mellow, so an extra 400RPM of room to play where it sounds the best is tempting.
This is why I was unable to race the E30...
I *REALLY* miss driving that car... I haven't touched the thing in weeks though, been busy working alot. The only way I'm going to get the thing all back together is to miss driving it enough that the only cure will be to fix it, so I can drive it. Still needs about $1,500 in parts too, but I'm holding off on ordering more stuff because I've got a slew of stuff already sitting here that can get done, that I haven't put in it. Sometimes I sit in the car for a bit, which just makes me miss it more, except now I can't pretend I'm driving it because I removed the shifter
He says his Cherokee isn't much slower than his brother's '92 Camaro RS with the TBI 5.0, so by that guess, The Jeep is probably a mid-high 16 second car.
I bet the Town Car is a low-mid 16 second car, so about the same as a 4.9 deVille. You got your '93 to run a 15.9 once, but usually it was a 16.1-16.4 right? The 4.6 lacks the low end kick of the 4.9, but it pulls better in the mid-high RPM's right? That's how I remember all of the 1991-97 Town Cars I drove.The Town Car would have went, but the cute girl at the gate for the track was all excited about me bringing the Jeep and was happy to hear I'd get the things I needed and come back.... I couldn't let her down and instead roll up in da Mafia mobile! lol...nah, I was going to, but it was a decent day out and I was just having too much fun driving around with the doors off.
I plan on taking the Town Car, so I can see for myself how it compares to my other cars, and actually have a reference number when the Town Car is made out to be a Cessna 152 compared to the SR-71 speed of the FWB
BMW is the fastest... but like I said, darting around town/thru traffic, the Jeep feels more peppy, the BMW has a higher powerband, even tho the I6 has a much broader torque curve then that of the I4, which really needs to be at the upper end of the rev band to make good power.
I would like to see a head-to-head drag race between an LT1-FWB and a dual exhaust equipped SOHC 4.6 Town Car like yours. It would be interesting... It might be a lot closer if you found a regular Fleetwood with the 2.56:1 rear end, instead of the Brougham's 2.93:1...
I was way west of the twin cities last week for work, and I drove past a 1996 Town Car Signature Series for sale in what was probably that Medium Willow Green Clearcoat Metallic with the Saddle interior. The interior was much better laid out than the FWB's; much better usage of space, much better looking dashboard, more legroom front and rear, full trip computer, dual front armrests, etc etc. If it wasn't so far away, I'd be tempted to drive it.
I just don't see an XJ w/ 3.07 gears running a 16 in the 1/4 mile. I could be wrong, only way is to run it and find out. Theres gotta be a track that has test n tune, $20-$25.... run it against the Benz!
I was thinking low-mid 16's myself.
The I got the Coupe to run a fastest of 15.9, but that was when the engine was still not fully tuned up and the cat conv was rattling (honeycomb inside was broken up) I never got to run it afterwords. The 16.1-16.4 were probably due to it being the first time I ever raced at the track and trying to figure out how to launch. it's not uncommon to shave off .5s (or more) just by getting a better launch.... hence me feeling pretty sure I could beat the 17.2 with the Jeep.
Besides, when people talk what they ran, they usually say their fastest times, not the average
Not that it really matters, because in the Coupe to get the fastest times, I was brake torquing, and I don't think I ever did that on the street. 1/4 mile times are fun to throw around when "paper racing" but really don't mean a whole lot on the street. Before that statement gets taken out of context, I don't mean in a street race or something, but I mean for the everyday driver... example, I was driving the Jeep rather hard down the track, roasting the tires, spinning tires between 2nd and 3rd gear, running to redline etc.... The Jeep dosen't see that action in any given day, because it dosen't need to, I can cruise in 4th, 5th, or 6th at 2500RPM and apply a little bit of throttle and it is already accelerating fast enough for me to pass/get in front/gain enough speed for whatever I needed to do. I don't think the 4.6 "lack" of low-end torque is really a factor, actually it probably helps. As it is right now, it'll bark the tires from a stop, then grip and go.... more low end torque and you risk spinning them, of course you can modulate throttle input, but I am just saying from an idle - wide open throttle transistion.
Me too! Base TC had 3.08 gears, Ride Control Package had 3.27, trailer tow had 3.55. From what I've heard (from owners of base models) the 3.27 do help liven it up a bit. I would *expect* the FWB to be faster due to the Corvette-derived LT1, but it would still be fun!
That's what I was trying to tell ya the whole time, just sit in one, drive it, compare what it's like to drive the two. The Town Car offers so much more in terms of daily driver friendliness that I think it may win you over.... thats what did it for me. Owners of the FWB on this site have said that it is getting to be an older car to use as a daily driver, on the Lincoln site, everyone uses their '90-'97 TC as a DD, most end up making threads about driving other cars only to be disapointed and enjoy coming back to their TC. To quote someone on the site "you have to pry a good running '90-'97 TC from it's owners hands" - most know what they are and really like them. I had a hard time deciding to sell mine, it's only because my taste in vehicles have really changed, and wanting to cut back on "stuff"
I'm over 1/4 mile times though, it's more bragging rights then anything "my xxx runs a yy.y in the 1/4" I daily drive a 17s Jeep, is that the end of the world? My Isuzu probably ran a 20s 1/4, and yet I was totally content with the power output of it. Unless you are already running your engine/vehicle wide open everytime you accelerate, then more power won't make you go faster. It may make you accelerate faster using less throttle input. Example would be my Lincoln, when I drive it (race these days) I hardly apply more then 1/2 throttle. In the event that I need to move fast, merging, getting on the interstate, or just want to accelerate fast, I'll floor it. In over 2yrs/ 25k+ miles, I have yet to have my foot to the floor and think to myself "man, I'd really like more power right now" The Isuzu? Yeah, power was an issue when I was towing my loaded trailer on the interstate, but that was to be expected. Any other vehicle I've had, has not been low on power.
Same thought for my BMW, which is quick. It's fast enough for me, some may say it is slow to them. If it was any faster, then that just means I'd get in trouble with the cops that much easier. What I really like about it is how balanced and "correct" feeling the power is. It's not underpowered, but it's not overwhelming either. Likewise, I have yet to be doing spirited driving/stupid stuff and wanted more power.
Power output/ 1/4 mile times are just another "number" for people to try and compare what is better on paper. It is just like those in the Jeep/off-road world that debate on crawl ratios. Yes, a higher crawl ratio is better, but that dosen't mean a vehicle with a lower crawl ratio will not outperform one with a higher CR. Lots of hobbies have stuff like this, audio they'll start comparing watts and hz and all the goodies etc... Just ways for people to try and say "mine is better then yours!" on paper, with comparisons which sometimes are very different in real life. Plus, alot of stuff in auto sports has to do with driver skill, kinda why I find drag racing boring..... go fast, stright. (period) An automatic really makes things boring, atleast with the manual there is some challenge with the launch. It's actually why I find off-roading so much fun.... it's a constant test of skill and new challenges - it's a very technical sport, and I like that alot... also why I enjoy races that actually have turns in them too, I'd rather drive the BMW on some curvy road all day long then do drag races all day long. Heck, I even have fun throwing the Jeep or Lincoln around in the twisties.
I have never driven a FWB. ~3 weeks ago there was a '95 Roadmaster Limited for sale at a local dealer, it was burgendy on burgendy. I went by when they were closed, but it was unlocked, so I sat in it for a few mins.
Honestly, and I am not saying this to be rude, but I have nothing good to say about my breif experience with that car other then it's cool cause it's the last of the GM RWD cars. I was not impressed with just about every part of it. I know this *could* end up get taken the wrong way by some, which is why I never bothered to post my experience (it was when we were talking about them in your mega long new car thread). I mean, I can go into specifics and some details that I remember if you'd like, but I don't think there was a single thing I preferred on the interior (or much less at all) of that car then I did over my Town Car.
My Town Car dosen't float. It's hard to describe, maybe talk to Ian about the ride, because he noted what I was saying too. It's got the Ride Control Package, which added stiffer springs/shocks, larger front sway bar, the 16" wheels and low profile 225-series tires, as well as the aux p/s cooler and 3.27 gears. When I replaced the front shocks, I put Moneroe Sensatracs in, which further firmed up the ride a bit, rear shocks are still original Motorcraft SureTrackers, and do not appear to be worn at all (no extra bounce or anything) so I have left them. I have heard that replacing them with Sensatracs will really firm up the ride, not that I want it to ride firmer. A big improvement came when I replaced the rear sway bar links with poly bushings, I couldn't believe the handling difference it made. The Goodyear Assurance Comfortreds are some of the softest riding tires you can get, but because of that they have a soft sidewall, and you can feel it flex when you toss the car aorund. Even then, I can take turns in the Town Car doing 70that it really should have no right doing.
If I were you, I'd try and find one with the Ride Control Package, between the firmer suspension and shorter gearing, it adds just enough "sport" to make the Town Car a healthy performer, all the while not subtracting anything at all from what it really is, plus I think the 16" slotted wheels and lo-pro tires look good. Unless it was an absurdly low mileage/good condition or otherwise very cheap car, I'd avoid an Executive. They were rather basic ITO Town Cars, seats were not as comfortable etc... I'd stick with Signature or Cartier, personally I did *not* want a Cartier for several trival reasons - I did not like the double "C" in place of the Lincoln star on the seats and trunk lock cover, and the Cartier came standard with traction control that could not be turned off (unless you pull the ABS fuse). I did not want traction control. Cartiers did have (even) better seats, which are nice, and also seat heaters, which don't mean anything to me in GA. Moonroof was optional on both models. Other then that, my Sig with the Ivory Pearlescent Tri-coat, Ivory/Charcoal interior and 16" slotted wheels looks just like a Cartier.
1990-1994 ride very different then '95-'97. They have the classic Lincoln marshmellow on a cloud ride. They have softer springs/shocks, as well as deeper padded/softer seats. Since it is just springs/shocks that change the ride, you can essentially make any of them ride like whatever you want. One of the forum memebrs put 1990 (said to be the softest rate) springs in his '95-'97 and soft shocks, to get the old school floaty ride. My car, hit a decent sized bump and she bops down, up, then back down and up only once after the inital bump and that's it, all other bumps are just a single down/up. I like it.
Take it for what it is though, I mean it's a "fun" ride for a Town Car..... but it's still rather dull and boring. Then again that is comparing it to the other vehicles parked (or on jackstands :bigroll
in my driveway - A Jeep and an old skool convertible BMW, both manual transmissions. Same with the size and how it feels, it feels bigger then my FWD DeVille, and smaller then the RWD DeVille/FWB, but thats because it is (on both accounts) Yet it dosen't feel like a "large" car to drive. Maybe I'm just used to driving big vehicles, but I've yet to have a hard time parking it, making U-turns or doing anything else, it's a rather nimble car to maneuver for what it is, that being said, I also have less then average eyesight on a few categories, and I don't have problems seeing anything with it. The blind spot mirrors that I added (nearly a requirement on any of my vehicles - very helpful) eliminate any blindspot, when on the interstate, I can see who is not only in the lane to my sides, but also 2 lanes over with them, you can also see the painted lines on the ground with them etc...It just dosen't get used anymore. It sits in the driveway, after several weeks/months, I'll miss it and start driving it again, then when it's sunny and nice out and I realize I could be rowing thru the gears in my topless BMW, or topless and doorless Jeep, the Town Car gets parked. I don't *want* to sell it, but it's just sitting here not getting used, and the money could go towards other things. Over the past couple years when I went on roadtrips with 3-6 people in total in the car, it was a blast, turn the music down and it's just like having a conversation in your living room on comfortable couches. Turn the music up and you just created your own dance party - well, I guess that also depends on whos in the car.
The Lincoln was my highway road trip car, and it was excellent at that. It just comes down to the fact that the BMW took over that roll. I much rather have the wind blowing all around me then A/C on, hence why I used to drive the TC with the windows down. The convertible far wins in that category. I like the manual transmission, the sporty ride/handling etc... basically, blame it on BMW and the Germans for winning me out of the Lincoln.... and traditional American luxury cars as a whole. - Now thats something that a few years ago I didn't think I'd ever say.
How much does a round trip ticket to ATL cost? LOL, fly here and take my car for a day long test drive if you'd like. You can take a number and get in line on it if you'd like
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