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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I mentioned that someone has 3 472/500 for $100 each.... and I wanted all 3.

Well, I am running low on money (since i am not working anymore... moving to FL) and I really don't want to have to deal with moving *3* big block Cadillac's around, not to mention right now I only have use for one of the engines.

So here is the deal, I went to see these things a while back, they are in a big wearhouse type bulding with lots of other engines/trans etc...

They are all complete from carburator to oil pan.

How should I go about which of the 3 I get? obviously I can't start to tear down the engine to see what pistons or heads it has. Ultimately I would like a 500, but really, if it is a 472, when the time comes to get it rebuilt, instead of sending the 472 crank out to get resurfaced, I would just buy a new 500 crank.

So, I need your help guys, 3 complete various year 472/500, as far as I know, there is no way to check the difference on them, Although I will be able to see if it has HEI or not, and that would tell me it is 1973 (?) +?

So what are some options here, and what are some things I should look out for?

Thanks, hopefully I'll be picking it up Friday or so.
 

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Double check that it's a 5200 block, not the earlier 1968-1969.5 blocks. If one has HEI grab it. Oh, and make sure they're actually 472/500s rather than 425/368s...
 

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davesdeville said:
Double check that it's a 5200 block, not the earlier 1968-1969.5 blocks. If one has HEI grab it. Oh, and make sure they're actually 472/500s rather than 425/368s...
Ray Charles could tell the difference between a 368/425 and a 472/500:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am near positive they are 472/500. And the 425 is different in other ways, that I can easily tell.

So basically, try and find 5200 on the block? where? what does that mean?

And I am looking for on that has HEI, even though with points, that would mean it is older, thus higher compression? in either case, I could swap the HEI from my 425 onto the 500 when the time comes.

We may go as soon as tomorrow.... so 5200 and HEI.... ok.
 

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Points does not nessacarily mean higher compression. The last year for 10:1 compression was 1970, but the last year for points was 1974 (?)

I'd bring a breaker bar and sockets and see if any turn over. If one feels stuck, leave it. (not just hard to turn like it's building compression, but stuck - siezed)
If they still have spark plugs in, pull them and see what they look like. Then peer into the cylinders (bring a flashlight) and see if anything looks rusty in there.
Bring a drain pan and open the oil drainplug. See what comes out. If nothing comes out, that isn't nessacarily a bad sign though.

If they turn over okay, you CAN check if it is a 472 or 500. Bring a piece of wire and stick it in a sparkplug hole. Rotate the engine untill the wire stops going down (piston at BDC) and mark the wire right where it goes into the hole. The turn the engine over untill the wire stops coming out (piston at TDC) and mark there. Measure the difference. About 4" means a 472, about 4.3" means a 500. It's not the most exact way to measure, but if you're careful you should be able to tell, and it'll save a few bills later buying a 500 crank if you have a 472.

Finally, don't lose this guys number. Show interest in the remaining engines and if you are ever back in town later, see if you can pick up another one. They've sat there this long, what's another 5-10 years...
 

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BluEyes said:
I'd bring a breaker bar and sockets and see if any turn over. If one feels stuck, leave it. (not just hard to turn like it's building compression, but stuck - siezed)
What do you put the socket on?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
BluEyes said:
Points does not nessacarily mean higher compression. The last year for 10:1 compression was 1970, but the last year for points was 1974 (?)

I'd bring a breaker bar and sockets and see if any turn over. If one feels stuck, leave it. (not just hard to turn like it's building compression, but stuck - siezed)
If they still have spark plugs in, pull them and see what they look like. Then peer into the cylinders (bring a flashlight) and see if anything looks rusty in there.
Bring a drain pan and open the oil drainplug. See what comes out. If nothing comes out, that isn't nessacarily a bad sign though.

If they turn over okay, you CAN check if it is a 472 or 500. Bring a piece of wire and stick it in a sparkplug hole. Rotate the engine untill the wire stops going down (piston at BDC) and mark the wire right where it goes into the hole. The turn the engine over untill the wire stops coming out (piston at TDC) and mark there. Measure the difference. About 4" means a 472, about 4.3" means a 500. It's not the most exact way to measure, but if you're careful you should be able to tell, and it'll save a few bills later buying a 500 crank if you have a 472.

Finally, don't lose this guys number. Show interest in the remaining engines and if you are ever back in town later, see if you can pick up another one. They've sat there this long, what's another 5-10 years...
good idea!

Question though, I thought about trying to turn them over with the breaker bar.... but they are simply laying on a concrete floor, is it possible to turn an engine over like that?

So really, ANY 500 would be the better choice then a 472? so really, I am looking for a 500 with HEI.

I'll bring my tool set with me and try to measure the stroke there, if should work good.

Yeah, the guy is older, used to own a junk yard or something and saved all this stuff, he has engines of all types. a family friend that owns a machine shop bought one of the 500's (used to have 4) really though, for a complete 500, $100, if it turns free, then it can't be that bad... if I had the time, I would do normal refresh stuff, then stick it in my '79 and see if it fires up, but since I don't, this engine will wait until I am ready to do a full perofrmance rebuild.
 

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The Ape Man said:
What do you put the socket on?
If they still have flywheels on them, buy one of the flywheel wrenches. They are cheap, and it makes it very easy to turn the engine by the flywheel. If there's no flywheel, a strap wrench on the crank pulley will work.
 

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Hey Rick...I was just wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing where this warehouse is...I'm in the market for a new 472/500 and also in upstate NY...Thanks
 

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lux hauler said:
A 9/16-18 bolt is what goes in the end of the crank....with that bolt, a breaker bar and socket can be used to see if the engine will turn over.
How about the H.D. fender washer?
 

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The Ape Man said:
How about the H.D. fender washer?
Yes, the bolt should have a heavy washer too.
I'm not sure on the length but you don't want it to bottom out. If I get a minute, I'll measure the depth of the hole in the 472 crank I have.
 

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Night Wolf said:
Question though, I thought about trying to turn them over with the breaker bar.... but they are simply laying on a concrete floor, is it possible to turn an engine over like that?
You'll be turning the engine over at about 1 rpm, so it'll be fine. You can remove the plugs first to make it easier.
Just make sure that the engine is laying so that trying to turn it over won't canse it to tip over and slam into the floor. Cast iron hates that...

I guess you will have to bring a bolt for the crank snout. Wierd, every other engine I've worked on has one...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well, I went today

ok, first up, I coudln't turn the engines over, because it turns out the crank pully is pressed on, has threads for a bolt, but none there.... but really, I don't think it would have turned over easily, atleast needing more force then I could produce.

the thing is complete, like I remember, carb to oil pan, all accessories on it.

all 3 engines had points

all 3 engines were 5200 blocks...

so that is 1970-1973/4

2 of which the guy labled as "500" the other wasn't, he said that someone that took a pully from 1 of the 500's told him what was what.

the 500 with the pully removed, one of the valve covers were completly rotted out. and it was in a bad spot to look at, so I quickly gave up on that one.

the 472, was complete, the oil cap was missing, so it was kinda rusty inside.

the 500 I decided on, was, IMO the best shape, I removed the oil cap and it was clean... not sparkling, but I gotta say, cleaner then my 425. I removed a spark plug, rusty, but couldn't see much inside the cylinder, I removed a 2nd plug, which broke in half, but coudln't see much either.

the exhaust manifolds have scaley rust on them, along with a few other parts from sitting for so long (80's) but the block/heads etc.. looked clean, surely nothing that can't be rebuilt

I coudln't pick it up today because there were some cars in the way of his hoist thing, so who knows when I'll get it (I wont be here, my father is going to pick it up) but I have the engine picked out, and it isn't going anywhere.

I think it is frozen up, either way, it needs a total rebuild, which it will get. my 425 will make a perfect doner engine for parts... of the things I will use is the HEI ignition, engine accsessories, since the alternator/AC compressor/p/s pump on there are probably shot... valve covers, since those valve covers looked thin (rust) in a few places... plus on my left valve cover, I have the bracket for cruise control, and I'll swap over the modified 472 intake manifold that is going on the 425 so I can keep AC etc....

over all, for $100, it is a PERFECT engine to rebuild, frozen up, rusty, but none of that is an issue really, it just makes me feel good to know that I have the car to swap an engine in, and the engine to get rebuilt :)
 
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