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2005 CTS- V
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48 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been reading a lot lately about double clutching and shifting without the clutch. Out of curiosity, what are your shifting habits? Do you double clutch between shifts? Does anybody "float" the shifts without using the clutch? Just wondering because I never learned any of those methods, I've only ever used the standard way of let off gas, push clutch pedal in, shift, release clutch pedal, and back on gas for all shifts. Any positive or negative benefits to these other methods? Thanks for your input!
 

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2005 CTS-V
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58 Posts
Double clutching always on the downshifts. Benefit is it extends the life of the synchros. The negative is that it slows down the shifting. I only drive in the city, so the fastest possible downshift isn't a top priority.

When I first started driving manual I never knew about the whole double clutching thing until a friend told me about it. Now that I'm used to it, shifting down without it just feels like I'm forcing the transmission to do something it doesn't want to.

And of course always rev matching. Smoother shifts and extends the life of the clutch.

Always wanted to learn to properly do heel & toe shifting, but can't get a hang of it.
 

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2005 CTS- V
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48 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
SashafromTO,
when you say rev matching, are you talking about shifting without the clutch and just feeling it out? How easy is it on the V? I'm a little apprehensive about trying it. I do it on my Ranger, but it only has a 4 cylinder with 112 Hp!
 

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2005 CTS-V
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58 Posts
I'm probably not going to explain it well. Clutch is still used. In between shifts when you disengage the clutch, the engine rpm will drop, as you engage the lower gear, the engine rpm will go back up again based on gear ratio and wheel speed. If you don't increase the engine rpm on your own before engaging the clutch, the rpm will jump up as the clutch is engaged. You rev up the engine so that 2 rotating parts (clutch disk and pressure plate) come in contact together roughly at the same speed.

This might be better reference: http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/rev-matching.htm

Easy to do on any car. A few do it for you now, not sure how effectively.
 

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2004 Cadillac CTS-V
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63 Posts
I've had mine for a year and a half. Still have trouble getting smooth shifts. Downshifting is still tricky too with rev matching. I either wait too long to release the clutch or do it too soon and the car bucks. Haven't tried double clutching.

I'm hoping though that when I use my extended warranty for mounts, flywheel, and/or whatever else is wrong that it'll feel like a new vehicle and I'll be better at shifting.
 

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2016 ATS Premium 6-spd MT
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14,019 Posts
When I have passengers in the car, I try to make mine feel like it's an automatic with silky smooth shifting and clutch engagement.

Okay, gimme a break ... it's what old guys do.
 

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2005 CTS-V
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58 Posts
I shift mine with what feels like a broom handle in a jar of tar thanks to the crappy mounting designed by GM engineers.....
Don't remind me! Sometimes I don't know if I've fully clicked into gear or not because there have been instances when I haven't but thought I did.
 

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Premium Member
2005 CTS-V
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8,363 Posts
When I have passengers in the car, I try to make mine feel like it's an automatic with silky smooth shifting and clutch engagement.
When I took driver's education, a manual transmission was mandatory and the goal was to make it impossible for a blind-folded back-seat passenger to tell whether the car was a manual or an automatic.
 

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ZIP
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51,864 Posts
I've had people actually ride in my car and not know it's a manual. Because I'm awesome. And they're dumb.

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Double clutching always on the downshifts. Benefit is it extends the life of the synchros. The negative is that it slows down the shifting. I only drive in the city, so the fastest possible downshift isn't a top priority.

When I first started driving manual I never knew about the whole double clutching thing until a friend told me about it. Now that I'm used to it, shifting down without it just feels like I'm forcing the transmission to do something it doesn't want to.

And of course always rev matching. Smoother shifts and extends the life of the clutch.

Always wanted to learn to properly do heel & toe shifting, but can't get a hang of it.
Double clutching on down shifts will always lead to very smooth transitions. On upshifts, I let the synchro do what they were designed to do. Rev matching as much as I can...
 

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2004 CTS-V Blk/Blk
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785 Posts
From my experience, the transmission in my V hates being cold, and hates being babied.

Taking it easy around town, it hates the 1-2 shift and you can kind of feel the shifter bounce as the syncros engage. Get it nice and warm in the summer and it will let me do 1-2 shifts without any lift on the throttle. Not the best thing for the clutch, but I'll swap it because of the vibrations from the Dual Mass flywheel way before the actual clutch wears out.
 

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2004 Cadillac CTS-V
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63 Posts
After further examination when shifting, I found that I have to basically hold for a second after disengaging the clutch before reapplying it and the gas so it looks like: clutch/let off gas, select gear, hold, apply clutch, apply gas. Otherwise I always I always surge forward a little because I think the revs should be falling faster. Maybe I'd be a good candidate for a lighter flywheel. I aim to get as little loss in acceleration as possible without dumping the clutch. Sometimes I find myself falling behind the car in front of me on takeoffs because I try to shift super smooth - even with 400HP. Maybe I'm just not doing it right :)
 

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04 CTS-V LS6
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104 Posts
On up shifts I pull the car into neutral as I'm just starting to pedal out then clutch the next gear and let clutch out then it's hammer time and repeat!
 

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2004 Cadillac CTS-V
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63 Posts
Do you guys let the clutch out all the way before giving it gas? I can almost be consistent with balancing clutch release and gas. I've done both but I've always thought you supposed to balance.
 

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2005 CTS-V
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58 Posts
In my experience with any manual transmission car... the more I think about how I am going to shift, the worse it will be.

Usually 1 through 4, on the up shifts I don't need to rev match, from 4th to 5th I will usually; so in the last case, I would blip the throttle slightly before the clutch is released.
 

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When I an in 1st and letting the RPM's climb, if i flutter on the throttle accidentally just a little bit i can get some wicked jerking. Does this mean I have a clutch/flywheel etc fixing to blow, or is it just a function of a high horsepower car I need to get used to? I have driven manuals since the day I started driving and think I am pretty good - I have a couple old cars with no syncro-mesh and have to double clutch etc - I can shift almost any car all day long without the clutch rev matching. But after 3 months with the V I still feel like a high school kid just learning half the time.
 

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05 Stealth Gray V
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991 Posts
Growing up with a Muncie M22, I learned quickly that the t56 with a body mounted shifter base doesn't like being manhandled like the old Muncie did. I could leave my foot on the floor and literally try and yank the shifter out of the car in my 69 GTO and it seemed to find gears 95% of the time or more....I haven't had the same luck with the V as forceful actions like this almost always lead to missed gears.

That being said, my car has 220K plus on what I think is a never built transmission so it could be normal wear that prevents me from reliving my youth but I'm thinking that isn't entirely it.

So....I shift mine carefully.

While I have done the shifter, PMC, bushing gig, future plans call for a tr6060 upgrade and a redesigned shifter base that bolts directly to the transmission in an attempt to negate the floating nature the base currently has being bolted directly to the floor of the car and the transmission at the same time. This will unfortunately transmit more noise into the cabin but I'm thinking (hoping) that upgrading to the new CS shifter with noise isolating handle will help me here.

IMHO, the transmission/shift mechanism in this car needs help.
 

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04 CTS-V and 94 SLS
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149 Posts
rsmithtesiusa said:
When I an in 1st and letting the RPM's climb, if i flutter on the throttle accidentally just a little bit i can get some wicked jerking. Does this mean I have a clutch/flywheel etc fixing to blow, or is it just a function of a high horsepower car I need to get used to? I have driven manuals since the day I started driving and think I am pretty good - I have a couple old cars with no syncro-mesh and have to double clutch etc - I can shift almost any car all day long without the clutch rev matching. But after 3 months with the V I still feel like a high school kid just learning half the time.
I had / have the same problem and I believe it is because of slop in the driveline. It has been an issue since I purchased the car with 37,000 miles I now have roughly 80,000 so you are not in imminent danger of blowing something up. I thought the same thing as you that it was making a mistake or learning to drive stick again... Until my buddy (with a lot more experience driving manual transmission vehicles) drove the car. He had the same issue once or twice. I have found if you are going to blast through first gear you need to commit and get into second (smoothly or aggressively and I don't get the bucking/jerking you describe )it drives more normally. I also drove his 01Camaro SS and you could drive that car and back off the throttle at any point and the car would not get unsettled and start bucking like my V ... Needless to say it was frustrating because the cars had similar power levels but the more uncomplicated drive line of the SS did a better job of delivering power.

My plan to remedy the situation is to replace the rear cradle and diff bushings as well as have the driveshaft service from Voodoo chicken. Just have to wait for the roads to clean up and the frost heaves to clear here in NH... I'll keep you posted. (I have the creative steel motor and trans mounts they seemed to help but didn't eliminate the condition I can still make it buck otherwise the car is stock 04 V)
 

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2005 CTS-V Stealth Gray stock (unmodded and happy this way)
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511 Posts
Usually I use the clutch only when starting from a complete stop in 1st gear. Yes I have ground a few gears but not often. If I lightly hold the shift lever against the shift gate it will find it's way into gears as the rpm's approach the correct speed. Side note... When downshifting from 6th it seems 5th has a lockout as I can not downshift into 5th clutch or no clutch. I downshift 6-4-3 -2 then 1 when I am completely stopped. But I can't hold the clutch all the way in for the 2-1 shift. In order to get into 1st the pedal must be only partially depressed.
 

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2010 Thunder Gray 6MT
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I tend to find myself constantly Rev matching due to the lighter LS7 flywheel. Aside from that I always use the clutch on all shifts. Sometimes I don't take my foot off the gas between shifts :bigroll:
 
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