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From carcomplaints.com

May 22, 2015 — After the grilling members of Congress gave the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) over its failures to monitor the gambles of General Motors and its ignition switches, it looks like NHTSA is upping the ante with automakers.

NHTSA took heat from Congress after it was discovered GM had concealed defective ignition switches in its cars during a 10-year period. It might have been a case of the wolf guarding the hen house based on the fact NHTSA is a government agency, and it was the U.S. government that loaned GM $49.5 billion to keep the doors open.

NHTSA says it is extending by a year its federal nanny role over GM's decision-making concerning safety issues and recalls. Other government requirements must be followed by General Motors for the next two years.

It was a year ago that GM paid a $35 million civil penalty while agreeing to allow NHTSA to monitor the automaker's behavior. The civil penalty was the result of GM's failure to report the ignition switch defect in the Chevy Colt.

The government believes the past year of babysitting GM has helped push the automaker to improve its safety policies and be more accountable for its actions.

However, it's a sad state of affairs when the same government that bailed GM out of its previous disasters must stand over the shoulder of the automaker to keep it from selling defective cars that kill customers.

There are others.... as I keep saying NO Quality Control.
 

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This could be a good General Discussion section thread . . .

CCC
 

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It seems the "Government Control" is about as good as "No control" in most cases. What we need is to get our Government under control first.
 

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When the entire population of the U.S. works for or is dependent on the government for services, where does the "government" get the money to dole out to itself ?

Don't kid yourself - we're well on the way there right now. 19th and 20th century European history is repeating itself.

If you are dependent on the "government" for basic services and programs then you have lost your freedom.
 

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2012 cadillac cts coupe and a 2004 retro bird
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The biggest mistake was bailing out G. M. In the first place . Should have let them go under. They build nothing but s--- for years before they got in trouble .
 

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Putting 100's of thousands of people out of work, driving the country further into recession, and essentially killing the American auto industry would have been a mistake.
 

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I do believe it was said GM was too big to fail meaning too large an impact on economy. If we want to throw stones lets start with Chrysler and the "quality" products they put out and was saved by a bailout IIRC. Some guy name Lee wasn't it...
 

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Alexandra - 96 SDV Clyde - 15 Silvy
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They easily could have let GM file for reorganization bankruptcy. That would have encouraged them to get their rears in gear.
 

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If it was that simple I would agree, let GM take their lumps.

The government did the right thing (this time). Saving literally 100's of thousands of peoples jobs, preventing a deeper slide into recession, and rescuing one our biggest industries was for too important to just let happen.

The loans have (mostly) been repaid now and the American auto industry is in better shape than it has been in decades.

If the government had allowed GM to file chapter 11, do you really think the executives would suffer? No, they would have grabbed their golden parachutes and bailed leaving the employees, their families, and all the supporting businesses hanging out in the wind.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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The biggest mistake was bailing out G. M. In the first place . Should have let them go under. They build nothing but s--- for years before they got in trouble .
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The biggest mistake was bailing out G. M. In the first place .
Should have let them go under.

I couldn't agree more -
but for a different reason -

they could have closed the doors on Friday - bankrupt -
then re-open the following Wednesday -
a "brand new company" -

all the workers could have their original jobs back -
with a couple changes -
no more UAW union -
1/2 of their original wages -
and greatly reduced bennies -

new GM vehicle prices could have been reduced by 25% -

GM could have been the #1 selling company once again -

additional factory workers would have been needed = more jobs -

more new dealers needed = more jobs -

more dealer mechanics needed = more jobs -

more salesmen needed = more jobs -

all those new sales = better economy -

all those new jobs = better economy -

all those additional tax $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = more wasteful government spending -
I never said the plan was perfect -
 

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Cashr22 said:
The biggest mistake was bailing out G. M. In the first place . Should have let them go under. They build nothing but s--- for years before they got in trouble .
The govt was as much to blame with the decline of the American auto industry as the companies themselves. They permitted foreign companies using labor subsidized by their government to come into our markets and sell at much lower price points. The rest is history. That said your right. The govt should have just given the money to GM
 

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Alexandra - 96 SDV Clyde - 15 Silvy
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============================
The biggest mistake was bailing out G. M. In the first place .
Should have let them go under.

I couldn't agree more -
but for a different reason -

they could have closed the doors on Friday - bankrupt -
then re-open the following Wednesday -
a "brand new company" -

all the workers could have their original jobs back -
with a couple changes -
no more UAW union -
1/2 of their original wages -
and greatly reduced bennies -

new GM vehicle prices could have been reduced by 25% -

GM could have been the #1 selling company once again -

additional factory workers would have been needed = more jobs -

more new dealers needed = more jobs -

more dealer mechanics needed = more jobs -

more salesmen needed = more jobs -

all those new sales = better economy -

all those new jobs = better economy -

all those additional tax $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = more wasteful government spending -
I never said the plan was perfect -
BINGO!

But for some reason giving low skilled laborers an insane salary and benefits for such a relatively easy job is a GREAT idea.

There was a time a place for the auto labor unions. Here and now is not it.
 

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GM could have been the #1 selling company once again -
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

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But for some reason giving low skilled laborers an insane salary and benefits for such a relatively easy job is a GREAT idea.
So you somehow know every union members job and how "easy" they are?
I agree that many members of the UAW were/are likely overpaid, just don't see how you could have enough knowledge to make the above statement.


You guys can coulda, woulda, shoulda all you want now.

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I never said the plan was perfect -
^^^I agree with this.

I'm no fan of the Obama administration or Bush's before him (when the bailout plan was actually devised), but the plan worked.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
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http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

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So you somehow know every union members job and how "easy" they are?
I agree that many members of the UAW were/are likely overpaid, just don't see how you could have enough knowledge to make the above statement.


You guys can coulda, woulda, shoulda all you want now.

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^^^I agree with this.

I'm no fan of the Obama administration or Bush's before him (when the bailout plan was actually devised), but the plan worked.
==========================
but the plan worked.
the point is that the ONLY ones that benefited by the GM bailout was the UNIONS -
not union workers - the unions themselves -

look at the quality toyotas built in the south - without unions -

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So you somehow know every union members job and how "easy" they are?
I agree that many members of the UAW were/are likely overpaid,
just don't see how you could have enough knowledge to make the above statement.


here are a few examples -

1 - the electronics industry -

back in the 50's - 60's and 70's -
if you wanted a QUALITY TV radio - movie camera/projector -
kitchen appliance or just about anything else that you plug in -
you bought American made -
Zenith - RCA - Motrorola - Curtis Mathes - Bell & Howell - Kodak -

the early stuff from overseas was pure crap -
then came the 80's -
the import stuff became much better quality - in fact BETTER quality than US made -
and it was a LOT cheaper - HOW was that possible -

union wages drove the price up so high - it killed the entire industry -

==================

2 - the steel industry -

HOW can it possibly be cheaper to send barges of iron ore through the Great Lakes -
then all the way to Japan to be smelted into steel -
then send the steel back on barges to the US -
rather than smelting it in Pennsylvania -

I'll tell you - the problem was two-fold -

after WW2 - the US rebuilt Japan - and that included brand new - high-tech steel plants -
in the US - the union wages were so high -
there was no money left for upgrades to the 100 year old plants -

union wages - killed the steel industry in the US -

======================

3 - virtually ANY/ALL businesses that involve a lot of laborers -

textile industry -
plastic injection molding -

HELL - anything that has to be MADE -
chances are - it ain't made here -
WHY? - labor costs too much -

4 - computer call centers -
are there ANY still in the US?
I doubt it -
WHY?
cost of labor -

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5 - look at the entire automotive industry -
how much of the GM car is actually manufactured here - not much -
WHY?
cost of labor -

now - don't get me wrong -
I don't expect ANYONE to work for peanuts -

I could NEVER do factory or assembly line work - WAY TOO BORING -
so there should be a "PREMIUM" added to what the job is worth -

if a boring - little training/little thinking job is "worth" $10/hr -
add another $2.50 PREMIUM - hell - bump that up to $5 -
for a total of $15/hr -
THEN you MIGHT get some "industry" back in this country -
but get the unions involved - and DEMAND $50/hr - ain't gonna happen -

remember -
not EVERYONE is cut out to be a highly-skilled - highly-paid professional -

there IS a demand for unskilled workers -
but the businesses are NOT in America -
 

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Well said Basscatt. In Ontario, people walked away from $25/hour jobs because the employer said they needed to take a $5/hr pay cut in order to keep things profitable to stay in business. The employees wouldn't budge; now they're unemployed or have sought work elsewhere for $11-$15/hour.

Greed is really the problem. And overseas; people are willing to work so they can eat and clothe themselves. Hence the cheap pay; and the further damage to the American/Canadian economies. And it's not fair how those underpaid workers have to work either....I've seen a documentary on that.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with a global economy, but to an extent though. Each and every country of the world has the opportunity to be wealthy and provide a good standard of living for its citizens. But that will only ever come through careful balance of imports and exports. And having decent governments who assist; yet do not control.
 

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We would be far better off without unions. Mostly overpaid for work produced, and the skimming to support the labor bosses and political contributions is the dirtiest sort of robbery imaginable.

I sincerely hope that South Carolina, Volvo and the potential workers at the new $125,000,000 plant tell the UAW to go to hell.

......... and here's one for you. During a visit to Hong Kong we observed quite a few laborers sweeping and cleaning streets and sidewalks. I asked a hotel concierge how large the city workforce was, given the number of sweepers. She replied "In Hong Kong, if you receive assistance for being out of work you must work for the city several hours a day to receive that payment." What a novel concept .............. work to pay for your handout. Think you'll ever see it here ??? Hah !!!!!
 

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This thread began as a discussion of the governments oversight of GM and seems to have to turned to a union bashing session.

Unions have provided vital protections from employer abuses to American workers for generations. A review of the history of unions in America will prove that out to any nay sayers.

Today's unions continue that mission.

Those who argue about inflated union wages, corrupt union practices, etc., have some valid points, but to blame it all on union workers is too simplistic and frankly wrong.

In shops governed by union contracts, all of the employees are subject to union rules, and representation whether they are union members or not. When contracts, wage increases and such are negotiated, individual employees (union or non-union) have no say. A vote is taken and everyone deals with the outcome, like it or not.

While I wholeheartedly agree that the UAW was not acting in the members or GM's best interest prior to 2009, the UAW alone wasn't why GM failed.
 

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I don't think anyone is blaming the union workers.
In those marvelous union shops that you described, the non-union employees also get to have their wage deducted for the union fund whether or not they join the union. My mom had that choice with the CWA. That is why so many people join. I would too if I had to pay the dues either way!
They also remained deaf to the abusive "motivational" tactic of her employer.

Unions are the buggy whip of our era, needed at one time, but out-dated and useless in our modern world.

We just found out how popular the unions actually are here in WI when they stopped the mandatory deductions from paychecks for the union and made them truly an "option" for the workers!
 

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The decision to join a union or not is up to each employee.

A union cannot force an employee to join OR pay dues, period.

I know this because, until recently, I was a member of one of the nations largest unions.

I withdrew from my union because of dissatisfaction with local union leadership. For 10 years they accepted my $ and gave me and my fellow local members squat in return. I was however satisfied with our national representation.

And since I am no longer in the union I don't even get a vote. Whatever agreements are accepted I'm obligated to accept because I'm in a union shop.

So you see, I am no union fanboy. Just trying to share real life personal knowledge and experience.

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We just found out how popular the unions actually are here in WI when they stopped the mandatory deductions from paychecks for the union and made them truly an "option" for the workers!
All that act 44 did in the case of automatic deductions from paychecks was force union members to use an alternate method to pay dues. Now union members have the "option" to write a check every month to pay dues.
 
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