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2008 DTS LUX III - Gold Mist traded for 2004 Tbird
1,511 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Good news for American Ford and GM, and Good news for Mercedes!
And of course........... Chrylser has gone to hell.

Hopefully we will eventually get the actual results, after JD Power makes their money.....

I wondered when the GM stuff was going to be noticed. My 2008 Cadillac has been flawless. As has my Mercedes. Both had to make up some ground for past misdeeds.

And to think.....I was going to look at the Land Rover. Sometimes the auto gods look out for me. LOL!

I have filled out several surveys on both the Caddy and the GLK.
JD Power and Auto Pacific were two that I remember. There was one more I can't recall.......
Sometimes I think the weakness of some of these surveys is.......the guys who are pissed, are gonna fill them out, but the guys who are pleased are not so motivated to do so........

If I was GM and Ford, I wouldn't crow too loudly.
Call it a tie. Tell people you make cars as good as Honda, Lexus, etc and let the people discover that actually you might even be a bit better nowadays.....



Domestic auto quality beats imports in J.D. Power study
For the first time in nearly a quarter-century, the U.S. auto industry edged out import brands in the study on initial quality. 'This is a landmark,' says J.D. Power official. Ford and GM lead the list of improved brands.

By Jerry Hirsch, Los Angeles Times
June 17, 2010 | 10:01 a.m.
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The U.S. auto industry edged out import brands in an important benchmark of quality for the first time in nearly a quarter century.

Led by improvements at Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Co., the domestic industry's ranking topped that of overseas manufacturers for the first time in the 24 years that J.D. Power & Associates has conducted its Initial Quality Study. The study measures how many problems owners experience during the first 90 days they have a new vehicle.

"This is a landmark in the quality history of the auto industry," said David Sargent, J.D. Power's vice president of global vehicle research.

Reliability and dependability problems have plagued the U.S. auto industry for decades. But Sargent said the quality gap between domestics and imports has narrowed steadily for some years now. The massive restructuring of the domestic industry over the last year and the introduction of a fleet of newly designed and engineered models appears to have pushed Ford and GM over the quality hurdle, he said.

"It was likely that the gap could reach zero and it is a result of a huge amount of hard work. They are now designing vehicles not to have problems," he said.

Ford and GM placed a combined 22 vehicles in the top quality rankings, but Chrysler Group lagged far behind its domestic rivals and the entire industry, the auto information company said.

Ford, with 93 defects per 100 vehicles, was the best-performing volume brand, beating Honda by two points. The Ford Focus was the highest-ranked compact car, coming in above Honda's Civic and the Hyundai Elantra. The Ford Mustang was the highest-ranked midsize sporty car and the Ford Taurus was the top large car.

Overall, domestic brands suffered from 108 problems per 100 new vehicles, an improvement from 112 last year and down dramatically from the 164 garnered by the American automakers in 2000. Imports scored 109, up from 106 a year ago.

The improvements are paying off in the marketplace.

Sales of Ford-badged vehicles have jumped 34% this year, about double the industry average, according to Autodata Corp. The brand's market share has risen by nearly two percentage points to 15.2%.

Porsche was the top nameplate, logging just 83 problems per 100 new vehicles in the 2010 survey, compared to an industry average of 109.

Acura was the top luxury brand with just 86 problems, a notch better than the 87 score of Mercedes-Benz.

Toyota, a perennial high scorer, slid from sixth in last year's survey to 21st with a score of 117.

That is the lowest Toyota has ever ranked and the first time in the 24 years J.D. Power has conducted the study that the Japanese automaker has scored below average.

Toyota has recalled millions of vehicles over the last year for a variety of gas pedal, acceleration and braking issues, including many of its 2010 models that would have been the subject of the quality survey.

Sargent said Toyota customers are reporting more concerns in the areas of brakes, pedals and floor mats and are showing a greater sensitivity to anything amiss in the cars.

"I think that the challenge for Toyota is the ongoing perception in the market. We have seen with other companies that when you start to get a negative reputation for quality it can take a long time to wear off. I believe Toyota vehicles will return to high quality. The harder part is to get their image to rebound," Sargent said.

That's one reason why Toyota sales have lagged the industry this year. Sales of Toyota-badged vehicles have risen just 8.9%, about half the industry average. Its market share has fallen by an entire percentage point to 13.3%, according to Autodata Corp.

The domestic industry is only now starting to turn its quality perceptions around after years of steady gains, he noted. And Sargent believes it could take several more years of matching or beating the imports in various quality measures before American consumers believe the domestic brands are as reliable as the top import manufacturers.

Ford Motor Co. (including the Volvo brand it has sold to China's Geely Automobiles) lead all other manufacturers with 12 models that rank within the top three in their respective segments, J.D. Power said. General Motors Co. has 10 models that rank within the top three in their segments.

The study demonstrated an unexpected trend, Sargent said.

New or massively redesigned models typically scored well, a sign that the design and build-quality of new vehicles are improving. Historically, newly launched models have incurred substantially more quality problems than carryover models, Sargent said.

He said the all-new Honda Accord Crosstour and the redesigned Ford Mustang, Ford Taurus and Lexus GX 460 each ranked highest in their segments. While new, or new generation vehicles including the Ford Fusion, Mercedes-Benz E-Class and Porsche Panamera also had high scores.

In its survey, J.D. power asks new vehicle owners if they have experienced any of a list of 228 possible problems. The market information company collected responses regarding about 33 auto makes from 82,000 consumers and had more than 400 responses for any model in the marketplace.

"That gives us sufficient confidence in the data," Sargent said.

While the Americans fared well, the British auto industry took a hit.

Three of the five worst performers were Jaguar, with 130 defects per 100 vehicles; Mini, with 133; and Land Rover with 170 (the worst of any automaker.)

Sargent noted that Jaguar and Mini both have reputations for style and panache and have good brand reputations despite their quality issues.

"There can be a significant difference between the appeal of the vehicle and the underlying quality and reliability of the vehicle. We have seen this with a number of brands for years," Sargent said. "The trick is to be Porsche where you can do both well."

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Sedan de Ville, CTS
4,764 Posts
Please don't know Chrysler product. They have a distinct feature that no one else has: No need to ever change oil. Just add a few quarts every week or so. (60 year old joke.)

BTW, a friend of mine works at a MB dealership, and I asked him what models to say away from. He flat out told me to avoid M Bs until thru 2007. They were under the control of the Chrysler bean counters, and quality suffered. 2008 and up had no more Chrysler influence. Quality supposedly improved.

2008 DTS LUX III - Gold Mist traded for 2004 Tbird
1,511 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
One of the best cars I ever had was a Chrysler. 1997 Chrysler Town and Country. 7 years and 75000 miles and it never went back to the dealer until the idler pulley froze up at about 60,000 miles. Took out the serpentine belt too. $250 and she was good to go again.
I can live with one failure every 7 years.
But, according to everybody else, I was lucky.

I was similarly"lucky" with my 1989 Ford Mustang 5 liter 5 speed convertible. It NEVER broke in 7 years. Oops, cancel that! The HVAC temp knob broke. I bought the replacement for $5 and put it on myself.

The worst car I ever had was a Datsun 510. Everybody else said that it was the best car Datsun ever made.
Mine blew two engines in 40,000 miles. I paid $1500 for the first replacement (rebuilt 12K 12 MoWarranty) and it blew after 20,000 miles. Did it again and junked the car when the second one went.

My 2003 Nissan Murano broke about 8 or 9 things in the first 6 months. 6 trips to the dealer. The CD player was replaced 3 times.
Then I went on a trip.I took the title. If that *(^$##$ thing broke again, it was GONE!
But guess what? I kept the car 7 years, and it never broke again!
They (Nissan) just needed me to do their QC for them, I guess.

2011 DTS Platinum
4,633 Posts
Probably the best car I ever owned was a 1980 Sedan de Ville.
I bought it new and kept it for 21 years and 250,000 miles.
I should have never sold it.

The "WORST" car I ever had was a 1966 VW beetle I bought new when I got out of the Air Force.

2 years and 40,000 miles later it was on it's "THIRD" engine, and "IT" was about to blow.

I sold it to a VW dealer and bought a new 1968 Chevy pickup with the 396 in it.
Never had a problem with the Chevy.


Super Moderator
2002 Seville STS F55, 2006 Mazda Miata
22,408 Posts
MB's quality problems were the fault of MB alone and no one else. This decline began when MB found itself unable to compete with Lexus on value, so they cheaped out starting with new platforms in the mid 90s and replaced solid engineering with gimmicky technology. They didn't get their act together until a couple years ago.

Chrysler's profits in the early to mid-2000s funded the development of new MBs rather than new Chrysler products.
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