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2002 Deville DTS - Cabernet
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Discussion Starter #1
Been looking for an older Cadillac (2000 - 2004) for over a month now. Would be a weekend, 3rd car. Saw a 03 SLS and a 00 STS.

Today stumbled on a 99 deville that is owned by a mechanic. He has already done the head gasket job by installing studs as well as what seems to be every other job that gets mentioned in these forums.

Should I give this car serious consideration? Don't love the color and I like the next generation devilles better but, I really don't want the headaches.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Car has 95k. Work was done at 82k.
 

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White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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86,781 Posts
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

HG's already done is a big plus, BUT why buy something you don't love. I'd pass.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

Today stumbled on a 99 deville that is owned by a mechanic
a car owned by a mechanic could the the best maintained car on the road -

OR - it could be held together by bailing wire and chewing gum -

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I agree with Ranger - if you don't love the color and body style -
why even consider it - why just "SETTLE" for something -
you said it's just a "weekend" car - so you don't NEED one -

find the one you really want - it IS out there -
 

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2002 Deville DTS - Cabernet
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

Update ( in case anyone was interested:))

Went to see a couple more today.

Car 1: 2001 DTS 95k miles. Car was on a used car lot. Looked good. Ran well. Dealer is looking for 5995 non negotiable. Car is pearl white with no sunroof.

Car 2: 2003 Deville. Car has 34 k original miles. Was owned originally by his grandfather. The grandmother took it over after the old guy passed. She then passed a couple months ago and the grandson (in his 40s) doesn't need it nor does he want it on his driveway. Car is in good shape. 4 new tires because the tires that were on it had rot. He also had to change the front brakes and rotors to pass inspection. The only thing with the car is that when the grandma had it, she must have had some problem with the sunroof and some genius convinced her to seal up the sunroof. Very disappointing. Said he got an estimate of 500 to replace it. Didn't want to be bothered replacing it. Would sell for $5800.

Car 3: 1999 deville. All black. 76k miles. Looks mint. Older couple purchased it when the husband was diagnosed as seriously ill. He progressively got worse and passed away and now she wants rid of the car. She apparently owes someone 5000 on a loan for the car. So, she's looking for 5000. I told her very nicely that the car is not worth 5000. She seemed to take my opinion and told me she would think about reconsidering her price. I guess we'll see.

If anyone has any opinions, I'm all ears.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

Update ( in case anyone was interested:))

Went to see a couple more today.

Car 1: 2001 DTS 95k miles. Car was on a used car lot. Looked good. Ran well. Dealer is looking for 5995 non negotiable. Car is pearl white with no sunroof.

Car 2: 2003 Deville. Car has 34 k original miles. Was owned originally by his grandfather. The grandmother took it over after the old guy passed. She then passed a couple months ago and the grandson (in his 40s) doesn't need it nor does he want it on his driveway. Car is in good shape. 4 new tires because the tires that were on it had rot. He also had to change the front brakes and rotors to pass inspection. The only thing with the car is that when the grandma had it, she must have had some problem with the sunroof and some genius convinced her to seal up the sunroof. Very disappointing. Said he got an estimate of 500 to replace it. Didn't want to be bothered replacing it.

Car 3: 1999 deville. All black. 76k miles. Looks mint. Older couple purchased it when the husband was diagnosed as seriously ill. He progressively got worse and passed away and now she wants rid of the car. She apparently owes someone 5000 on a loan for the car. So, she's looking for 5000. I told her very nicely that the car is not worth 5000. She seemed to take my opinion and told me she would think about reconsidering her price. I guess we'll see.

If anyone has any opinions, I'm all ears.
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the ONLY thing positive about the first '99 - was the fact that
the head bolts had already been taken care of -

there were so many internal improvements to the 2000+ motors -
I personally wouldn't even consider anything older than the 2000 -

the 2000 to 2005 Deville series cars had 3 models -
the base model -
the DHS - Deville High Luxury Sedan -
and the DTS - Deville Touring Sedan -

the DHS and DTS were both loaded with accessories -
and carried a window sticker around $10,000 MORE than the base Deville -

the DTS has the very expensive "active" suspension -
which gives a much firmer/stiffer ride -
it also has the slightly more powerful 300HP motor -
and a higher final drive ratio - so slightly less gas mileage -

my favorite model is the DHS - it is the most "Cadillac-like" of the 3 -
 

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2002 Deville DTS - Cabernet
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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

Completely agree on the 2000 + as being much nicer. Must admit though that the black 99 that I saw today was really stunning.
 

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Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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Re: Good deal? 99 deville

Of the three, I'd take what's behind door #2.

Car 1: 2001 DTS 95k miles. :noidea:

Car 2: 2003 Deville. Car has 34 k original miles. :thumbsup:

Car 3: 1999 deville. :tisk: Don't even think about a '99 (unless the HG's have already been done...........correctly).
 
S

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Re: Good deal? 99 deville

I would have to agree with ranger on this as well car 1 is a rip off for a 01 and car 3 is doomed with the HG issue car 2 would be your best bet or keep looking it took me six months to find the DTS i wanted cars that old couples have are usually a good buy because they dont abuse the cars and just drive them i got mine from a older couple in long island ny 3 years ago paid $5000 for a 04 DTS great deal then with almost 77 thousand highway miles on her just had a cracked grill easy fix every thing else perfect also had all records for it take your time and get the one you want in the color and with the options u want also my advice try to get a 04 or 05 which has the longer headbolts which just about fixed the HG issue plus 04 last DTS with the 300HP Northstar they got lazy in 05 :D
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

I would have to agree with ranger on this as well car 1 is a rip off for a 01 and car 3 is doomed with the HG issue car 2 would be your best bet or keep looking it took me six months to find the DTS i wanted cars that old couples have are usually a good buy because they dont abuse the cars and just drive them i got mine from a older couple in long island ny 3 years ago paid $5000 for a 04 DTS great deal then with almost 77 thousand miles on her just had a cracked grill easy fix every thing else perfect also had all records for it take your time and get the one you want in the color and with the options u want my advice and try to get a 04 or 05 which has the longer headbolts which just about fixed the HG issue on the northstar
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try to get a 04 or 05 which has the longer headbolts
which just about fixed the HG issue on the northstar

actually- ALL Northstar motors from 2000 got the longer head bolts -
they changed to a coarse thread on that longer head bolt mid 2004 -
 
S

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Re: Good deal? 99 deville

Hey bass i was aware that GM did two mods from 00-03 which had the 1.5 threads which helped but didnt stop the HG issue and then in 04 which had the 2.0 threads which just about solved the problem havent heard of anybody with a 04+ car with a northstar have HG failure

Posted by chris at rippy parts cadillac


From this we can determine that 2004 N*'s with the following engine ID's have the M11x1.5 threads like the 00-03's have.

JBA
JCA
LBA
LCA
JKB

We can also determine the following 2004 engine ID's have the new and improved M11x2.0 threads like the 05's have.

JBB
JBC
JKA
JMA
JMB
JPA
JPB
LBB
LCB
 

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1998 Deville
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710 Posts
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

A '99 for $5k is a total joke. No more then $2k-$3k and that is if it is perfect.

This is another joke - "5995 non negotiable" EVERYTHING is negotiable. If you like it, offer what you think it is worth - Maybe $3500. It is probably a repo he picked up for $1000 or less.
 

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2002 Deville DTS - Cabernet
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Discussion Starter #13
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

A '99 for $5k is a total joke. No more then $2k-$3k and that is if it is perfect.

This is another joke - "5995 non negotiable" EVERYTHING is negotiable. If you like it, offer what you think it is worth - Maybe $3500. It is probably a repo he picked up for $1000 or less.
The '99 is absolutely perfect but, $5000 is a joke and i told her that. I feel badly that she lost her husband and that she owes her family member $5000 on the car but, really that is not my problem. Told her that I think it's worth $3500 tops and even that is a stretch. Besides the head gasket issues, not sure i want to drive something that may have hurt someone else. If she's gonna lose $1500 on the deal, I would feel badly. Don't need that Karma. Maybe I'm nuts but that's how I feel.

The DTS for $5995 "non negotiable" is what it is. I offered the guy cash for the car if he could work with me. He told me the price was "rock bottom". Then told me that the car comes with a 90 day/3000 mile warranty. Assuredly the price of the warranty is rolled up in the car. He can keep it at that price. Been on his lot around 60 days. Good Luck.

The 03 with 34K miles is actually exactly what I want. Black on Black with black ragtop. Could do without the ragtop but it's not a deal killer. The thing that bothers me is that if the tires rotted out then what's to say that every hose and/or belt won't do the same? To me a car needs to be driven. Throw in the fact that the car is around 11 years old, this could be a can of worms that I'm not sure I want to open. Also, the sunroof sealed is bothering me as well. I rarely use it on my daily driver, but the fact that I would have it and can't use it, would start to get to me.

Am I being too sensitive that the car has too little miles?
 

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1998 Deville
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Re: Good deal? 99 deville

I would definitely work with the 03. The sunroof, unless it was welded, should be able to be restored to working. And I think the "ragtop" can be removed. Hopefully not too much damage underneath. Go pics of that one? I have been wanting to replace my 98 with a later model triple black.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
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19,270 Posts
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

Hey bass i was aware that GM did two mods from 00-03 which had the 1.5 threads which helped but didnt stop the HG issue and then in 04 which had the 2.0 threads which just about solved the problem havent heard of anybody with a 04+ car with a northstar have HG failure

Posted by chris at rippy parts cadillac


From this we can determine that 2004 N*'s with the following engine ID's have the M11x1.5 threads like the 00-03's have.

JBA
JCA
LBA
LCA
JKB

We can also determine the following 2004 engine ID's have the new and improved M11x2.0 threads like the 05's have.

JBB
JBC
JKA
JMA
JMB
JPA
JPB
LBB
LCB
--------------------------
i was aware that GM did two mods from 00-03 which had the 1.5 threads
which helped but didnt stop the HG issue and then in 04 which had the 2.0 threads

the reference to 1.5 THREADS AND 2.0 THREADS is the THREAD PITCH -
and has nothing to do with bolt length -

the head bolts were lengthened starting with the 2000 motors -
the coarser THREAD PITCH came mid-year 2004 -

and you are correct - the longer bolts helped a lot -
but the longer bolts - with the coarse threads fixed the problem -
 

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2001 Seville STS, 1990 Seville (RIP), 1972 Sedan Deville
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Slipgate said:
The sunroof, unless it was welded, should be able to be restored to working.
I'd have asked for more information on that. If it wasn't working, it could have just been left alone. If someone "sealed" it, that suggests it was leaking, which I've never heard of a factory sunroof doing on one if these cars. If it were after market, a leak would make more sense. In any case, I can't imagine they did more than disable it, and caulk around the edges.

And I think the "ragtop" can be removed.
Sure it can, but then you need to fill all of the screw/rivet holes in the roof and in the top of the doors, and paint. And the car in question is black, it'll look like hell unless a good shop does the work.
 

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2002 Deville DTS - Cabernet
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Discussion Starter #17
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

I'd have asked for more information on that. If it wasn't working, it could have just been left alone. If someone "sealed" it, that suggests it was leaking, which I've never heard of a factory sunroof doing on one if these cars. If it were after market, a leak would make more sense. In any case, I can't imagine they did more than disable it, and caulk around the edges.

Sure it can, but then you need to fill all of the screw/rivet holes in the roof and in the top of the doors, and paint. And the car in question is black, it'll look like hell unless a good shop does the work.
Sunroof was completely caulked around the perimeter. And it was factory no doubt.

This goes back to my feeling that things are starting to dry out on the car due to such little use. If the sunroof leaked and the tires had actually rotted on the insides, what's next to go?

Am I wrong to feel this way?
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

Sunroof was completely caulked around the perimeter. And it was factory no doubt.

This goes back to my feeling that things are starting to dry out on the car due to such little use. If the sunroof leaked and the tires had actually rotted on the insides, what's next to go?

Am I wrong to feel this way?
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Sunroof was completely caulked around the perimeter.
And it was factory no doubt.

there are drain tubes within the sunroof -
it is possible they were plugged up -
but the owner THOUGHT the seal was leaking - and puttied it all up -

as far as it being a "factory sunroof" -
the ONLY way is to verify it with the RPO codes
on the under side of the spare tire cover -

or run the VIN through http://www.compnine.com/vid.php?vin=1g6ks54y03u132966
that will tell you EXACTLY what the car left the factory with -

This goes back to my feeling that
things are starting to dry out on the car due to such little use

I have an '02 DHS with just under 27K miles on it -
the car is stored during the winter -

other than fluid changes - both belts replaced - and a water pump gasket -
the car is all original - tires - hoses - etc -

the tires are the Michelin Symmetry -
the tread is still great - and no sign of dry-cracking -
but the car doesn't sit in the sun - THAT destroys rubber -

all the radiator and heater hoses are still soft and pliable -

but belts and hoses are cheap - and not that difficult or expensive to replace -

my car still looks - smells - drives - and rides like a brand new car -
just like the day I got it with 1.2 miles on it -

so I wouldn't be too concerned about the "lack of use" -
 

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2002 Deville DTS - Cabernet
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Discussion Starter #19
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

-------------------------------
Sunroof was completely caulked around the perimeter.
And it was factory no doubt.

there are drain tubes within the sunroof -
it is possible they were plugged up -
but the owner THOUGHT the seal was leaking - and puttied it all up -

as far as it being a "factory sunroof" -
the ONLY way is to verify it with the RPO codes
on the under side of the spare tire cover -

or run the VIN through http://www.compnine.com/vid.php?vin=1g6ks54y03u132966
that will tell you EXACTLY what the car left the factory with -

This goes back to my feeling that
things are starting to dry out on the car due to such little use

I have an '02 DHS with just under 27K miles on it -
the car is stored during the winter -

other than fluid changes - both belts replaced - and a water pump gasket -
the car is all original - tires - hoses - etc -

the tires are the Michelin Symmetry -
the tread is still great - and no sign of dry-cracking -
but the car doesn't sit in the sun - THAT destroys rubber -

all the radiator and heater hoses are still soft and pliable -

but belts and hoses are cheap - and not that difficult or expensive to replace -

my car still looks - smells - drives - and rides like a brand new car -
just like the day I got it with 1.2 miles on it -

so I wouldn't be too concerned about the "lack of use" -
Unfortunately, I don't have the vin. I ran the carfax (which came back clean BTW) via the license plate number. Car was listed on Craigslist. The Carfax also backed up everything he said about the history of the car. Could the ragtop and sunrooof been added as aftermarket? I guess it could have but by the sunroof controls in the car, it sure looked factory to me.

The tires rotted from long periods of sitting. From what it sounds like, the car didnt get much use. They bought it in '06 with around 13k miles. Fast forward to now and the car has 34K. Who knows how long it sat after the grandmother got sick.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
Re: Good deal? 99 deville

Unfortunately, I don't have the vin. I ran the carfax (which came back clean BTW) via the license plate number. Car was listed on Craigslist. The Carfax also backed up everything he said about the history of the car. Could the ragtop and sunrooof been added as aftermarket? I guess it could have but by the sunroof controls in the car, it sure looked factory to me.

The tires rotted from long periods of sitting. From what it sounds like, the car didnt get much use. They bought it in '06 with around 13k miles. Fast forward to now and the car has 34K. Who knows how long it sat after the grandmother got sick.
-------------------------
I ran the carfax (which came back clean BTW)
carfax is VERY overrated -
it will show the list of owners -
and it will show service done at the dealer -
but any work done on the car at privately owned businesses -
is usually NOT reported - as in bodyshop repairs - etc -

Could the ragtop and sunrooof been added as aftermarket?
ABSOLUTELY - in fact - MOST ragtops ARE aftermarket -
look for a little tag - usually on the lower left corner around the rear window -
E&G CLASSICS is probably the #1 installer -

and ASC is the most common aftermarket moonroof -
and they look exactly like factory installed -
 
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