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02 Escalade | 02 Corvette "Goldilocks" | 03 Blazer 4x4 | 92 Caprice Wagon LS1/T56
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Discussion Starter #1

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02 Escalade | 02 Corvette "Goldilocks" | 03 Blazer 4x4 | 92 Caprice Wagon LS1/T56
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Discussion Starter #3
Well yeah. My 4-speed auto was great in the wagon, too - but that's not how progress is made.

Especially government manded progress. :lol:
 

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2008 CTS4 DI - EU version
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Looks like corporations are trying to patent as much as they can until someone fixes the broken system. EFF and others obviously need to try harder, heh.
 

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Alexandra - 96 SDV Clyde - 15 Silvy
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I think 11 is excessive in cars, especially when you can build so much range into a mere 4 speeds.

On a bike, it makes sense, because there isn't a whole lot of power to work with, so you need a bigger gear differential.

Cars, they have so much power, rolling from a dead stop isn't much of an issue. Just need a handful of gears to get up to highway speed, maybe low triple digits, and you're set.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, in the case of cars, they do it for the opposite reason. Not to make getting up from a start easier, but to make cruising easier. On a bike, you cruise and just stop pedaling. On a car, the transmission is still that link between the engine and wheels, so more gears make sense. It's almost like they should just develop some sort of system with a continuously variable range of selections in order to suit driving situations...


....wait a minute.
 

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ZIP
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6-8 is fine for me. The 4 speed in my Town Car is nice enough, but hit that bad spot trying to downshift one gear after rolling through an EZ Pass booth at 25mph and it sometimes kicks a gear too low. Neck snapping clients is not my bag, baby...
 

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Past: 95 Fleetwood, 91 Brougham. Now: 92 Lexus SC300
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I've read some bad reviews of the 9 speed auto Fiat Chrysler is now using. Complaining it doesn't know what gear to be in, takes forever to downshift when you plant your foot, upshifts aren't smooth, and that it doesn't use 9th gear at highway speeds.

Honestly I think more than 6-8 gears in an automotive application is overkill. It just makes for a transmission that shifts too much, or like that Fiat Chrysler transmission, the computer logic is a bit baffled because it has too many ratios and options to choose from.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Luke, the 8L90 is great. Really great. 10/10 (8/8?) would drive.
 

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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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4 was OK, but not adequate. The changes between gears are too big, which manifest itself as neck snapping gear changes. It is obvious that there could be some more gears between the existing 4 gears to have a more refined ride and better fuel economy.

6 is good. However, 8 is better. As an example, BMW 328 and ATS 2.0 liter Turbo have similiar two liter tubo engines. But the BMW has a better performance compared to ATS, despite the fact that the engine in ATS produce more HP. the different: BMW has a world-class 8-gear transmission wheres ATS has a relatively old 6 gear transmission. What I am trying to say is that in practice the superiority of 8-gears over 6-gears in terms of performance and fuel economy is documented and there is virtually no argument over it.

But 11 speed, 10 speed, or more gear, I don't know. I don't know how many gears is considered too many gears. But for sure it is not 8.

As a side note, when the number of gears goes to infinity, basically we get a CVT, correct? So we already have an auto transmission with virtually an infinite number of gears. The manufactures are trying to fill the gap between CVT and conventional 8 speed autos. The question is why not focus on CVT and try to perfect that technology rather than putting many discrete gears besides each other?
 

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1992 DeVille
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ben.gators said:
4 was OK, but not adequate. The changes between gears are too big, which manifest itself with neck snapping gear changes. It is obvious that there could be some more gears between the existing 4 gears to have a more refined ride and better fuel economy. 6 is good. However, 8 is better. As an example, BMW 328 and ATS 2.0 liter Turbo have similiar two liter tubo engines. But the BMW has a better performance compared to ATS, despite the fact that the engine in ATS produce more HP. the different: BMW has a world-class 8-gear transmission wheres ATS has a relatively old 6 gear transmission. What I am trying to say is that in practice the superiority of 8-gears over 6-gears in terms of performance and fuel economy is documented and there is virtually no argument over it. But 11 speed, 10 speed, or more gear, I don't know. I don't know how many gears is considered too many gears. But for sure it is not 8. As a side note, when the number of gears goes to infinity, basically we get a CVT, correct? So we already have an auto transmission with virtually an infinite number of gears. The manufactures are trying to fill the gap between CVT and conventional 8 speed autos. The question is why not focus on CVT and try to perfect that technology rather than punting many discrete gears besides each other?
As long as gm doesn't insert a brake application as a part of a simulated "hard/sportier shift" point I'll be happy. They did that with the Lexus f sport crap...unbelievable
 

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ZIP
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4 was OK, but not adequate. The changes between gears are too big, which manifest itself with neck snapping gear changes. It is obvious that there could be some more gears between the existing 4 gears to have a more refined ride and better fuel economy.

6 is good. However, 8 is better. As an example, BMW 328 and ATS 2.0 liter Turbo have similiar two liter tubo engines. But the BMW has a better performance compared to ATS, despite the fact that the engine in ATS produce more HP. the different: BMW has a world-class 8-gear transmission wheres ATS has a relatively old 6 gear transmission. What I am trying to say is that in practice the superiority of 8-gears over 6-gears in terms of performance and fuel economy is documented and there is virtually no argument over it.

But 11 speed, 10 speed, or more gear, I don't know. I don't know how many gears is considered too many gears. But for sure it is not 8.

As a side note, when the number of gears goes to infinity, basically we get a CVT, correct? So we already have an auto transmission with virtually an infinite number of gears. The manufactures are trying to fill the gap between CVT and conventional 8 speed autos. The question is why not focus on CVT and try to perfect that technology rather than punting many discrete gears besides each other?
Have you driven the 328? It didn't blow me away...
 

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'14 ATS Premium with 3 pedals | Past: '13 ATS Performance & '99 Seville STS
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ATS has the better handling and better suspension and feel compared to base 328, no argue on that. But powertrain wise, 328 is slightly better. I am not a big fan of the 6-gear auto in ATS.
 

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Past: 95 Fleetwood, 91 Brougham. Now: 92 Lexus SC300
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I know some people might disagree, but one of the best shifting automatics I've driven has been the old GM 4L60e. I've owned two cars with that transmission, a 1999 Z28 Camaro and a 1995 Fleetwood. Two worlds apart in terms of refinement, but in both of those applications it shifted buttery smooth and kickdown was immediate. What I really liked about that transmission in both cars is that I knew EXACTLY how much throttle I needed to apply to get it to downshift, not downshift, downshift two gears, upshift, not upshift etc. IE I could select the right gear with my right foot in both of those cars. After driving some comparable era Fords, Lexus, Toyota, and Chrysler automatics, the 4L60e in both those cars was brilliant.

Now I could imagine how much more brilliant both of those cars could be if I had a couple more ratios to choose from, which would allow you to run a shorter rear gear ratio, like say a 3.55 or 3.73(Camaro had a 3.23, Fleetwood 3.08), they would be significantly quicker while still getting similar fuel mileage.
 
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