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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Let's face it ladies and gentleman, They are on to the 2006 models and they are not going to fix the things we have brought to their attention for the 2005 models.
The voice response is a major feature of the car and a year has gone by and yet there is no fix. This is important because many of the navigation functions are not available when the car is moving unless you use voice. The car voice system doesn't understand us. After 2-3 misunderstood commands, everything is screwed up. It is hard to even know what to return to normal. I guess if enough of us went in threatened them under the lemon laws and arbitration they might have moved.
The possibility of a new navigation disk is a dream. I went to the dealer again and asked and he called Cadillac parts and they said there was a phone number in the manual to call for disk updates when available. There is no phone number in the book that I can find specifically to do that (even in the on-line manuals which should be the updated versions) and it is over one year since the car came out. The new cars supposedly have free updates even though the car and the navigation system is essentially the same and yet no one at Cadillac considered that maybe they should extend that to their VALUED customers who purchased 1st year model STS's. They probably don't care about us or they are so close to bankruptcy they just are totally absorbed in staying alive.
I haven't had a specific problem with the phone and bluetooth but anybody that follows this forum would note that there obviously is a problem which i would consider very important, but no specific fixes.
The reason they have not given us the usual wallet door key is so they can sell On-star and use the door opening feature of On-star as more of a necessity than an additional option. If I hadn't had a door key made which allowed me to get into the car and into the glove compartment for my insurance card, I would still be sitting in the Home Depot parking lot scratching my head.
It used to be that there was such a marked difference between the way a customer was treated by Cadillac versus other even GM divisions that many of us stuck with Cadillacs just to get the attention and concern and care. But that is no longer true as far as I can see except in some isolated incidents.
I like this V8 STS and enjoy driving it, but essentially I have been cheated out of some of the advertised features, for instance closing of all windows from the key fob and as mentioned, updates to the navigation disc and no use of the voice command. This may seem trivial but what bothers me most is that Cadillac is not listening (Yes, I have filed customer service request on these matters, but have gotten no answers). There priorities are really screwed up in my opinion and they will suffer from it within several years when we all have to get our next car. Certainly when it comes time for me to move on to a new car I will consider what has happened.
 

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Well BarryNS I can agree with you on several items:

A) I like my STS (in fact I really really want to LOVE it completely). Performance, Luxury, Feature Loaded and for a small bundle less than the competition. Should be a match made...

B) The problems you list are real and although none of us really know how many vehicles are suffering from most/all of these complaints, by extrapolating the number of people that know of this site, own 05/06 STS's (with the appropriate NAV/Audio) and post. There are at least a certain number of...

The reality of course is that manufacturers deal with this all the time. First year production models often have major complaints, the same goes for many other consumer items as well. And based on most business models it is better for a corporation to learn/fix/apply to future generations rather than correct older ones. Especially in the auto industry which is geared towards only correcting "mandatory" safety items or major concerns that have a safety potential. All other concerns are handled on an "as reported" basis. You go in with a concern and the Service Advisor says, "Oh yeah, I think they put out something on that, let me take a look."

Being a corporate Exec myself I understand the motiviation but also disagree on its execution many times. Part of that issue is because they are not specifically addressing an individuals concern but rather a "class" of concerns that a group of engineers work on based on priority/liability/future application and need. They then publish the data/fix for service agents to pull down on an as needed basis. There is not one individual up top that makes a decision to fix/not fix. Rather it is the corporate structure and ethic that "swallows" these things up based on percentages and volume. Nature of the beast for a global conglomerate like GM.

I have the VR problem. I have the Bluetooth problem. My car is in the shop yet again and has been for three days and counting. They are currently replacing the audio/nav unit for the second time this week as the last replacement itself was defective. I have no cell phone as they needed to keep it with the car. As a VPO who drives 35K+ miles a year with people looking for me all the time, I feel like I am walking around naked..

And how embarrasing is it for friends/family/peers to ask why your new "fancy" car is in the shop...again...

My friends actually joke about the VR in my car. Whenever I see them they always ask if it still wants to make a margarita when you ask it roll down the windows...nice.

So yes I am frustrated too...

And I am also VERY layed back. I believe in seeing the good in people and "assuming innocence". I also feel bad every time I call my Service Advisor or the Service Manager with my concerns. But I feel I have to.

And so I can only personally feel that this is the answer. To keep calling and writing. To not give up and capitulate.

I started by writing a very detailed letter to Cadillac Customer Care.

Cadillac Customer Assistance Center
P.O. Box 33169
Detroit, MI 48232-5169

I received a personal call and was assigned a dedicated CSR. The best they could do was get me some weight with the local Service Manager which they did. I now make sure that no matter what I am going in for, I include the VR/Bluetooth as a complaint on the service ticket. It has to be recorded to help make it climb the list of "most oftens" that GM receives. I then copy the Cust. Service Center and keep my file "open".

I also filed a complaint here:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

The NHTSA has an Office of Defects that takes consumer complaints on-line. File one. The link provided also lists a mailing address and you can search for complaints also.

It is a hastle and adds to the frustration that as a consumer you have to take personal responcibility for complaining and making change happen. However in a "corporate" environment it is the only way to get real action. That or finding the person in GM that can really make things happen and then convincing them that although they probably believe it is either being taken care of or will go away on its own, that it reall really isn't/won't. That there is a problem that they really should pay attention to personally instead of just assuming it will go away or delegating down to someone else. I haven't found them yet...yet.

That is why I have written to Rick Wagoner Chairman/CEO of GM.

Mr. G. Richard Wagoner Jr.
Chairman and CEO; Chairman and President, GM North America
300 Renaissance Center
Detroit, MI 48265-3000


Tell him your concerns and your inablility to get acceptable action. Advise him there are others that share your concern and although you wish to support GM products that this is unacceptable.

Send a seperate letter here:

Robert A. Lutz
GM Vice Chairman, Global Product Development

Advise him on the development of "this" product.

Letters should go here as well:

Mark R. LaNeve GM North America Vice President,
Vehicle Sales, Service and Marketing

Lawrence D. Burns GM Vice President,
Research & Development and Strategic Planning

Include your VIN on every letter as reference which is another reason to keep it logged at the dealer as it will show on their vehicle history search.

In the corporate world it is only when critical mass is achieved or projected to occur that action is taken.

If these problems are on the 05 models, then chances are they are on the 06 as well. That means with every vehicle off the line they are potentially increasing the number of complaints received, service actions at the dealerships and ultimately their liability if/when they actually do something.

Chances are, they really are working on this but will apply the fix/changes to future year models and if it is downward compatible (if) they will most likely release a TSB or Advisory to the dealerships that will be warranty serviced. That is important as well because at least for me; there is no way I am making it four years. My warrantly will expire in 12-14 months total under current use. So for me there is a very large sense of urgency to get this done. And even if I do roll over on miles, I want there to be a long paper trail for me to refer to.

Bottom line is I really do want to love this car. I actually miss not driving it right now. I am in an 06 DTS that although I respect those that prefer the larger body styling, it does nothing for me. I want MY car back...

But I personally believe that unless a large group of individuals take personal action to ensure that the candle is burned at both ends (GM & Dealer) this will go slowly or not at all. We need advocates to carry the message, willing or otherwise. A willing advocate sympathizes with your situation and tries to get some relief. An unwilling advocate is pissed and wants you off their back and so demands that something be done to make you go away. We need both.

The forums are an excellent way to share experience and information but does nothing to correct concerns. The GM action tree does not include this site as an acountablility...

So I hope you feel better having "vented' a little. I also hope you have done most if not all of the actions I have and are just praying for the "miracle" to happen as am I. And writing again when it doesn't.

If you haven't. Please consider doing some or all and for those that turn red evertime they think about these issues. Please be clear, concise, respectful and please try to avoid going off on the "auto trunk-closer" arguments and deal with those seperately. There are features that need to be fixed, and features we wish we had. We have to keep them seperate or else it will muddy the waters and reduce your impact. Stick to the "must haves" not the "wish I hads". Plus it will help keep from going off on a rant. Brevity is key.

I'm not giving up and would love to know there are others fighting the good fight as well. Writing a letter that says there are many that have the problem means nothing to GM as it is subjective. A detailed listing showing customer service historys and complaints is tangible and real...

And on a personal note.

I am just thankful I have a roof over my head, a job, any car and enough money to "fill" the tank and not just put in what's in my pocket that second. And mostly for a familly that doesn't care what I drive or how much I make.

So as I make my complaints, it is with respect for those to whom I write and those who cannot afford what I take for granted.

Thanks for your post and best wishes in resolving all of your concerns.

Regards...
 

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BarryNS said:
I went to the dealer again and asked and he called Cadillac parts and they said there was a phone number in the manual to call for disk updates when available. There is no phone number in the book that I can find specifically to do that (even in the on-line manuals which should be the updated versions) and it is over one year since the car came out.
Here is the number:

1-877-NAV-DISC (1-877-628-3472) or at www.gmnavdisc.com.

Of course, the number is not active nor is the website up. These were published by GM with their 06 model released materials but have never been active to date. Possibly because it is an annual program based on delivery date so they have 11 months before the first disks are promised and as noted only to 06 and beyond customers.
 

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Here is the cover letter I used for the CEO. I prefer to use a "personal" style when drafting correspondance and I wrote seperate letters to the other execs. I used my CSC letter as the initial basis. I wanted to avoid them being able to say "have you seen that letter'" and assuming they were all the same. This isn't exactly a form letter but anyone may feel free to plagerize any or all of it as appropriate.:

July 15, 2005


Mr. G. Richard Wagoner Jr.
Chairman and CEO; Chairman and President, GM North America
300 Renaissance Center
Detroit, MI 48265-3000


Dear Mr. Wagoner,
I am writing today to share a letter I recently sent to the Cadillac Customer Assistance Center. Please find it attached
I enjoyed many years in management with a large global corporation and currently serve as an Executive in charge of an established company. As such I have always appreciated hearing directly from product consumers to validate what I see in the field or experience through regular reporting.
Therefore it is my sincerest hope that you will be interested in this particular case and will use the resources available to your office to validate its resolution. Although I always look for the best in individuals, I unfortunately find that in the case of good corporate citizenship, procedures and policies can occasionally get in the way of common sense decision making.
If my circumstance is an isolated case, then I wish to believe that it will be handled promptly and efficiently by the hard working, dedicated staff at GM/Cadillac. If however it is part of a larger issue, then I trust that not only those in charge of Cadillac are aware, but members of upper management as well.

Certainly it is the vision of yourself and GM at large to ensure customer satisfaction. And we know that despite our best efforts, occasionally we come up a bit short. It is how we respond to such events however that show the true integrity of an organization. I hope that by sharing my concerns, I can experience the vision that you have laid before your organization.
Let me thank you in advance for your time and consideration in this matter. I appreciate the opportunity to contact you directly and look forward to resolving this matter in its entirety. My personal contact information is listed at the end of the attached letter. Please feel free to make use of it as you so desire.

Respectfully yours,
 

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I too have been frustrated with Cadillac regarding the very same problemsand additionally, the quality of the paint upon delivery -swirls. I too have written two letters to customer service regarding the issues. Early on after purchase I received a callback and had a long discussion. I sent the most recent letter in about three weeks ago and referred to my file. As of this date I have had no reply. The letter specifically addressed the VR problem, the analogh Onstar issue, and the issue about updated nav discs. I pointed told them that I felt abandoned by Cadillac even though I had purchased two vehicles from them in the last three years (03 Escalade and 05 STS). It will be interesting to see if I ever hear back from them on the last letter. If I do not, I will be following your footsteps and sending letters out to all named above. Thanks for the info and addresses. I truly do not know what will wake Cadillac up.
 

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wick05 said:
Wow you got a lot of time on your hands Cajon.. But hey someones got to do it. Just not going to be me.
No I don't (have time). But for a 63K dollar list automobile how long does one letter CC'd to a few VP's take? About one 1/2hr. SitCom's worth of time.

Heck, I even provided all the names and addresses.

The point of my post was that ONLY if there is critical mass will anything be done. Silent condoning doesn't make it better, only worse as GM can then say that we are a lower percentage of the aggragate total.

If you have the problem(s) then at least open a file with the Cust. Service Center for ALL our sakes...
 

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Oh I have quite the file with customer assistance. You can check my post at the top here. I agree with you, but in the same.
All cars with Voice Rec are worthless. Even the ever so popular Lexus is shit. Its a horrible system, hell I hate the automatic locks on the vehicle that lock after a certain period of time. By the time I get out, get the stroller out of the trunk and around to the door, it locks.
Would disarm it but hell I can not remember to shut the front door of my house let alone pull the keys out when I have my kid. I dont need to leave the car unlocked.

I feel your pain, and was not belittling you. Sorry if you felt that way.
 

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wick05 said:
All cars with Voice Rec are worthless. Even the ever so popular Lexus is shit. Its a horrible system, hell I hate the automatic locks on the vehicle that lock after a certain period of time. .
I've had a Voice rec feature on my 04 CTS and on my 04 Lexus. The one on the CTS wasn't too bad..although the on star had a real problem recognizing the number 2. The rest of the voice parts, with the navigation and audio systems worked pretty slick. I would put the one in the Lexus pretty even with the one in the CTS. I don't have an on star type system in the Lexus, so I don't run into the problem recognizing numbers that I had on the CTS with it, but otherwise they are pretty even in functionality.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Cajunkev:
Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to respond to my original message and especially for sharing your insight into handling of these type of problems and dealing with the corporate culture. When one is frustrated with the corporate system, it is so easy to forget how communicate with those who can help us. It is so easy to forget the ultimate goal, which is to get the problem corrected, and instead to use inefficient and misdirected venting of anger which at best only makes one feel good for a short time but usually never corrects the problem. This entire subject is a very important one for this forum because this is one of very few places where car model specific problems can be discussed and shared. I do hope that members of this forum and in fact anybody who has this car and has had these common problems will take the time to follow your recommendations.

Thanks again,

Barry
 

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Very well written complaints about how Cadillac is handling their customers. One of the biggest complaints of owning a Cadillac has not been addressed however. Like, WHY are Cadillacs so worthless (price-wise) upon trade in? There's only one other vehicle IMHO that depreciates more, a motor home.
 

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ARTSBEST said:
Very well written complaints about how Cadillac is handling their customers. One of the biggest complaints of owning a Cadillac has not been addressed however. Like, WHY are Cadillacs so worthless (price-wise) upon trade in? There's only one other vehicle IMHO that depreciates more, a motor home.
Their most certainly is a differnce in resale value between cadillac and say, Lexus. Part of that has to be the really big rebates and discounts that are placed on the new caddys.

I noticed another difference when I was shopping for my new cars. The cadillac dealers all had acres of new cars sitting on their lots that they were trying to sell....the Lexus dealer only had a couple of some models in stock, and only a demo or two of others. Most times, when a delivery truck comes in to the lexus dealer I bought from, those cars are already sold and awaiting delivery to the customer.

I'm not sure if Lexus just limits supply, or if it's that Cadillac just overbuilds, but there sure is a difference in inventory.
 
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