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2003 Deville
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Discussion Starter #1
Im working on a 2003 Deville for a relative that has been having a chronic cooling problem. At the moment it appears that the housing in which the water pump mounts may have a crack on its bottom side. This item is referred to by GM as Housing 12583237. According to gm discontinued but I have found it in a few warehouses. However, in all of the parts fisches Ive looked at, I cannot find the item # for the 2 gaskets where this housing in turn mounts to the front of each cylinder head.

Has anyone every replaced this housing? and if so, might could enlighten as to what gaskets to obtain for the locaation in question? Any help would be much appreciated.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,286 Posts
Im working on a 2003 Deville for a relative that has been having a chronic cooling problem. At the moment it appears that the housing in which the water pump mounts may have a crack on its bottom side. This item is referred to by GM as Housing 12583237. According to gm discontinued but I have found it in a few warehouses. However, in all of the parts fisches Ive looked at, I cannot find the item # for the 2 gaskets where this housing in turn mounts to the front of each cylinder head.

Has anyone every replaced this housing? and if so, might could enlighten as to what gaskets to obtain for the locaation in question? Any help would be much appreciated.
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here is the complete gasket set -
VICTOR REINZ GS33437 - $28 - with free shipping -
http://www.carpartkings.com/victor-reinz-engine-water-pump-gasket-gs33437.html
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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.......... and that water crossover uses four coolant seal gaskets - 2 at the heads, 2 at the block.
 

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98 DeVille, 97 DeVille d'Elegance
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Those crossovers are not prone to cracking the gaskets are known to leak and they suck to replace.
 

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2003 Deville
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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for all the reply and feedback. I do hope it is just a leak but looking up from below while on the lift, a possible crack was what I thought I was able to see. After seeing your replies, started to research "crossover", and yes do see as where its a bear of a job, but its gotta be done. I Started going at it this morning, and once I got a few things out of the way was able to see quite a bit of coolant pooling on top of part of the transmission housing just below the rear cylinder head. I felt around and could not find a source yet. I ordered the above recommended kit.
 

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98 eldo/KD54 w/N37,T96,QA1,D55,DS3,U1Z. U3R next
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If you're doing that job, I make one suggestion......do everything one time.....

Cross over gaskets, the ridiculous coolant fitting on the cross over (wait till you try to unclip the pipe), thermostat, water pump, water pump tensioner assembly ( the pulley at the bare minimum) and the water pump drive belt.

This is one area, you don't want to see again for a long time.....trust me.
 

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2003 Deville
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Discussion Starter #7
well doing things right is the only way I operate. I replaced the water pump, thermostat,belt and tensioner last year but was unaware of the fact that this housings gaskets were also common problem areas. All of that was quite easy. This crossover manifold does look like its going to be a bit more complicated. I just hope this is the actual leakage source. The thought of doing headgaskets is not a pleasant thought.
Unclip the pipe?....to what are you referring?...the pipe on the back side pointing toward the firewall?
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,286 Posts
well doing things right is the only way I operate. I replaced the water pump, thermostat,belt and tensioner last year but was unaware of the fact that this housings gaskets were also common problem areas. All of that was quite easy. This crossover manifold does look like its going to be a bit more complicated. I just hope this is the actual leakage source. The thought of doing headgaskets is not a pleasant thought.
Unclip the pipe?....to what are you referring?...the pipe on the back side pointing toward the firewall?
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be sure to check BOTH the TechTips forum here -
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips-how-fix/

and the Northstar Motor forum here -
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-engines-system-technical-discussion/

for HowTo's -
 

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2005 CTS/ 2008 DTS/ 2008 STS V8 N*/ 2011 CTS4 ALL W/D Pearl
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well doing things right is the only way I operate. I replaced the water pump, thermostat,belt and tensioner last year but was unaware of the fact that this housings gaskets were also common problem areas. All of that was quite easy. This crossover manifold does look like its going to be a bit more complicated. I just hope this is the actual leakage source. The thought of doing headgaskets is not a pleasant thought.
Unclip the pipe?....to what are you referring?...the pipe on the back side pointing toward the firewall?



If coolant is pooling on top of the tranny just under the block or head crossover gaskets towards the firewall it is defiantly the crossover gaskets leaking.
 

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98 eldo/KD54 w/N37,T96,QA1,D55,DS3,U1Z. U3R next
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Could be the coolant crossover gaskets leaking OR the quick disconnect fitting into the crossover holding the heater pipe.
 

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2003 Deville
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Discussion Starter #11
THanks for the continued input guys.....will check out those tech discussions now..

Tom,

Yes that is where the bulk of the leaked coolant has been found, I do hope it is the crossover gaskets. This engine has seen higher than normal temps on a few occasions, but each time it happend they pulled it over and shut it off. I was really hoping that it wasnt more severe. Gaskets, though pain in the arse gaskets are workable.

The original problem was a clogged hollow bolt above the water pump that vents to the surge tank. On that one Cadi dealer told them they needed a new engine to the tune of $7500. I fixed that one in under 10 minutes, but also later flushed the entier system as well as replaced the water pump and the thermostat. Until recently all was ok, but then they started getting messages telling them engine temp was too high and too shut off the ac. After an insepction I noticed it was leaking coolant from somewhere and once again its in my posession to find out what and where and attempt the repair. So far the puddling on top of the tranny is what Ive found. I plan to get to the meat of it tomorrow.

As for the quick disconnects, anybody got a source on those? I replaced the surge tank on this car last year when the coolant sensor failed and was unable to find that quick fitting. So far it hasnt leaked but a few more times on and off and it no doubt will eventually do so.
 

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THanks for the continued input guys.....will check out those tech discussions now..

Tom,

Yes that is where the bulk of the leaked coolant has been found, I do hope it is the crossover gaskets. This engine has seen higher than normal temps on a few occasions, but each time it happend they pulled it over and shut it off. I was really hoping that it wasnt more severe. Gaskets, though pain in the arse gaskets are workable.

The original problem was a clogged hollow bolt above the water pump that vents to the surge tank. On that one Cadi dealer told them they needed a new engine to the tune of $7500. I fixed that one in under 10 minutes, but also later flushed the entier system as well as replaced the water pump and the thermostat. Until recently all was ok, but then they started getting messages telling them engine temp was too high and too shut off the ac. After an insepction I noticed it was leaking coolant from somewhere and once again its in my posession to find out what and where and attempt the repair. So far the puddling on top of the tranny is what Ive found. I plan to get to the meat of it tomorrow.

As for the quick disconnects, anybody got a source on those? I replaced the surge tank on this car last year when the coolant sensor failed and was unable to find that quick fitting. So far it hasnt leaked but a few more times on and off and it no doubt will eventually do so.
Google 2006 DTS water pump change and watch for some tips on the crossover bolts leaving them in when putting it back on and so on.

The only difference really in the video and what you are doing is in the 2006-2011 the water pump is behind the crossover casing and yours is not. You will get some good pointers about the bolts and a 13mm gear wrench is a must.
 

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1998 Seville STS, 2003 Deville
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As for the quick disconnects, anybody got a source on those?
Don't even bother with the quick disconnect. See below. The brass fitting is a 1/2" pipe to 5/8" hose any good hardware will have it. Or Napa has them also but its not a barbed fitting. Just a hose fitting which is probably better but hardware was closer for me at the time. Trim heater pipe accordingly to keep original length. BTW this was on an 03 Deville also.

 

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Discussion Starter #14
Got it all out took about 3 hours. Sure enough the two rear gasketed areas were quite corroded and leaking. Getting the quick disconnect off on the water line was no problem at all. I may opt for alternate approach that you show above. But gotta ask. If you going to go barbed, then why not just rubber hose it all the way back to where it t's off at the heater core.
Right now waiting on parts to arrive, mainly all of those short heater hoses, might as well replace all of those while the bulk of the interference (crossover manifold)is out of the way.

I'll also check out that google 2006 search.

Has anyone ever considered using good silicone like super gray, and attaching the new gaskets to the block/head first, then let them dry for a day prior to install? I use that stuff on just about every engine job and many times its near improssible to pry things off later.
 

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Too much heat on back of engine for hoses. People have bypassed the heater tubes but not in original location. With the compression style gaskets not sure would want to adhere to the block first (or the crossover). I wish the would have designed with a sleeve on the gasket so would stick in the holes but nooooo that was too easy.
 

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IIRC the replacement gaskets come with little tabs in the bolt holes that grab onto the bolt so it doesn't slip off.

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IIRC the replacement gaskets come with little tabs in the bolt hole that hold onto the bolt so they don't slip off.
 

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Too much heat on back of engine for hoses. People have bypassed the heater tubes but not in original location.

That makes sense, But I was thinking just from the crossover, over to the pipe that comes from the heater....that would have one long hose over the top of the tranny and not the rear of the engine. BUT as this is not my car, I'm working on it for someone, will probably just replace the oring inside the quick connect and put back stock.


With the compression style gaskets not sure would want to adhere to the block first (or the crossover).


Im thinking apply some of the gray sealer to the block side of the gaskets, install some smaller bolts to partially compress those gaskets against the block, then give it about 24 hours of dry time. IVe done similar situations and it takes nearly a hammer and several blows to remove the gaskets. With all of the external stuff out of the way there is really no reason to get incredibly rough with the reinstall, it should surely withstand even a few bumps. Personally I never had much faith in plastic or metal gaskets with rubber inserts and have had many fail in time as the rubber stiffens with age, ive alwasy used the heavy gray rtv in addition and never had failures. This time also use its sticky quality to maybe help a nuisance situation.


I wish they had designed it with a sleeve on the gasket so would stick in the holes but nooooo that was too easy.

Aside from my auto hobbies, I work in heavy industry for the past 30 years. I have yet to meet an engineer that even once had to deal with the real world and the results of their poor designs. They near all think they are gods way above the levels of modern working man and that anything they put on paper is 100% accurate. I deal with them every day and enjoy when we get young jr engineers. I try my best to enlighten them to the things that can happen (loss of life,equipment, and production) IF they make poor, non field applied decisions. Maybe 2 in 10 listens. The rest go on to be our futures engineering idiots. Several have returned years later and shown appreciation for the education recieved, that part there makes the effort it all feel worthwhile. But still the idiots are the majority. [/ QUOTE]
 
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