Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
99 Seville STS
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The discussion about the missing torque struts on the 98-2003 seville generation and how to design your own solutions has been up several times before in old threads.

I have been toying with the idea of using gas dampers, the kind that keep your trunk lid or hood up, I know I have seen such solutions in engine bays on some other car that was to damp the turning of the engine.

The good thing about these are that they are available in a huge variety of length, stiffness and fastening options.

Anyway, I just wanted to through the question out here for any opinions about such solution
581320
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
69,382 Posts
Won't work. Gas springs are designed with a LOT of travel in the shaft. Dog bones (torque struts) ideally have a very, very short insulated (damped) movement, then go solid - like during full power acceleration and full vacuum deceleration. That engine should move maybe 3/4", no more.

And those gas springs (balls and sockets) will not withstand the full torque capabilities of the Northstar.

Do it this way - ("Ranger's Rods") - electrical conduit and a bit of brazing.

Drill and screw.jpg.JPG
Magnets for drill chips.jpg.JPG
Pass side install.jpg.JPG
Tightening.jpg.JPG
Measure twice, drill once.jpg.JPG
 

·
Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
Joined
·
87,081 Posts
I agree. Those things would be a waste of time, effort and money.
 

·
Registered
99 Seville STS
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for sharing the excellent photos on the Ranger Rods, and I realize this is a more realistic way of solving it as I have seen other forum members follow this path with happy results.
But how about engine vibrations that transplants over to the body? The original dog bones had rubber bushings a the ends

Without any torque strut at all you get a certain movement, with a solid rod you basically eliminate that movement apart from what the cross member where you attach it flexes, which possible could put some extra stress on the front engine mount, but I may be all wrong here....
My idea with damper was that this would be a middle way between the two, but it would probably be hard to find one suitable for our needs and the attachments on the engine is tricky regardless.

The kind I had in mind is thick and really stiff; the one on the pict I posted was mainly to show what I was talking about so we didn’t get lost in terminology
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
69,382 Posts
That front cross brace on the Seville and Deville will not flex - matter of fact, it's used to lift the front end off the drivetrain during an engine removal.

Yes, the solid torque struts transmit some small amount of engine noise to the body - and you can hear it, particularly during wide open throttle runs to over 120 mph. Ask me how I know. Once a year I remove the radiator sight shield and check the bolt/nut tightness - they get a lot of rough use.

The driver's side torque tube tucks into the upper curve of the engine lifting strap - proper hole drilled in the strap. I think I used a 5/16 Grade 5 bolt, bent washer to cradle the lower side of the tube, nylon locknut. Or, you could insert a wood plug in the end of the tube to prevent it from crushing.

basscatt made up a set of torque struts using all-thread, rubber bushings, locknuts, turnbuckle barrels.

Another way would be to have a sail/rigging loft swage up a pair of 3/16" aircraft cable snubbers - just enough slack to allow the powertrain to move normally but snub it solidly during maximum power events.



You would still need a correctly sized/drilled standoff for the passenger side cable fitting - the necessary threaded bolt hole already exists. Metric.
 

·
Registered
99 Seville STS
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
That front cross brace on the Seville and Deville will not flex - matter of fact, it's used to lift the front end off the drivetrain during an engine removal.
ok, a lot stronger than I thought
Yes, the solid torque struts transmit some small amount of engine noise to the body - and you can hear it, particularly during wide open throttle runs to over 120 mph. Ask me how I know. Once a year I remove the radiator sight shield and check the bolt/nut tightness - they get a lot of rough use.
Maybe the transfer of noise was one of the reasons GM decided to skip them, just a thought...
The driver's side torque tube tucks into the upper curve of the engine lifting strap - proper hole drilled in the strap. I think I used a 5/16 Grade 5 bolt, bent washer to cradle the lower side of the tube, nylon locknut. Or, you could insert a wood plug in the end of the tube to prevent it from crushing.
I was wrong in my earlier statement about it being tricky to find suitable attachment points on the engine
basscatt made up a set of torque struts using all-thread, rubber bushings, locknuts, turnbuckle barrels.
is there by any chance a thread available about this?

Here is one ex of a engine torque solution from a MB450 btw
581765
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
69,382 Posts
You might use a Google search like "cadillac forums northstar torque struts basscatt" or something close.


The rubber bushed "dog bones" used on the Eldorado and maybe some earlier Northstar Devilles didn't transmit much engine noise.

You can always go to one of the semi-solid front center mounts made by www.northstarperformance.com. But the change requires several hours of work and engine movement.


....... and you MIGHT be able to piece together an original Eldorado dog bone setup by searching the engine systems in www.gmpartsgiant.com - but there may be underhood interference n the 1999 STS.
 

·
Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
Joined
·
87,081 Posts
is there by any chance a thread available about this?
Note sure what Bass did, but here is my thread on it.
 

·
Registered
99 Seville STS
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the inputs boys
I have been drooling over the Northstar Performance improved and reinforced front engine mount, probably a real good and permanent solution, but a bit expensive, at least for a high mileage 99 (odo just flipped to 200000 km).
And buying dogbone brackets for an Eldo is probably a gamble to make it fit on a seville as you say Sub, the dogbone itself is dirt cheap at Rock Auto though.

A solid rod like the kind Ranger has done, but with a rubber busing a the fasting point in the cross brace, how about using a long bolt with shock rubber bushings?
581828
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
69,382 Posts
Fine, run the bolt/bushings through the radiator brace but make sure to install a torque strut on both ends of the engine - and you'll need to fabricate a tough, meaty standoff for the passenger side (engine front) strut. Connecting to a simple long bolt sticking out of the head will create high angular stress at the bolt hole.

Use nylon insert lock nuts - the constant high frequency vibration WILL loosen standard nuts and lock washers.
 

·
Registered
99 Seville STS
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yes, I know what you mean, needs to be two rods, and I have been thinking on how to avoid that stress on the passenger side bolt hole as you need to get passed the power steering reservoir with the rod.
This will be a perfect winter project when the car is out of traffic, since I sold my Buick I have room to keep it in my own garage and can easily work on it whenever I want.
There will be thread on it I promise, if I will go ahead and do it.
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
69,382 Posts
Zoom this and look at the right side standoff boss. This one is from JoeTahoe's install job some years ago.

RIGHTTS1.jpg
IMG_0344.JPG
 

·
Registered
99 Seville STS
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
looks great, the closer you can get to the engine block, the better
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
69,382 Posts
Take a deep breath - the torque struts - original and DIY - bolt to an existing threaded hole in the passenger side of the cylinder head and to the driver's side water crossover mounting bolts.
 

·
Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
·
19,658 Posts
ok, a lot stronger than I thought

Maybe the transfer of noise was one of the reasons GM decided to skip them, just a thought...

I was wrong in my earlier statement about it being tricky to find suitable attachment points on the engine

is there by any chance a thread available about this?

Here is one ex of a engine torque solution from a MB450 btw
View attachment 581765
Thanks for all the inputs boys
I have been drooling over the Northstar Performance improved and reinforced front engine mount, probably a real good and permanent solution, but a bit expensive, at least for a high mileage 99 (odo just flipped to 200000 km).
And buying dogbone brackets for an Eldo is probably a gamble to make it fit on a seville as you say Sub, the dogbone itself is dirt cheap at Rock Auto though.

A solid rod like the kind Ranger has done, but with a rubber busing a the fasting point in the cross brace, how about using a long bolt with shock rubber bushings?
View attachment 581828
===========================
the Ranger Rods inspired me to come up with an insulated version -
I used the rubber cushions from a set of sway bar links - threaded rod - and a turnbuckle -

go here to see a bunch of pics
 

·
Registered
99 Seville STS
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Sorry for the slow response,

Thanks so much for sharing these photos, both pplpp99 and bassscatt, they will be perfect inspiration material if I get to do this, at the moment I'm busy in a struggle with the lawn mower from hell
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top