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1996 Cadillac Eldorado ETC
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Discussion Starter #1
I know that it would be almost impossible for GM to be liquidated considering all of the bail out money that has been put into them. What if this chapter 11 reorganization does not work and GM still can't turn a profit? What if GM is forced to liquidate in the future? Would Cadillac be sold to Mercedes, toyota or another foreign competitor? I could not imagine a world with out Cadillac, but these recent events have me worried that this could happen one day.
 

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91 Allante (gone), 06 SRX (gone)
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I would look at the Hummer sale as a likely example. Except, the buyer would probably be an existing foreign automaker with no premium brand in the U.S. Likely candidates would be Hyundai or one of the Chinese companies like SAIC. They would probably be smart enough to continue to build the DTS.
 

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2011 DTS Platinum
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I would look at the Hummer sale as a likely example. Except, the buyer would probably be an existing foreign automaker with no premium brand in the U.S. Likely candidates would be Hyundai or one of the Chinese companies like SAIC. They would probably be smart enough to continue to build the DTS.

Not being against my Cadillac in any way...you know how much I like it... but...
Have you looked at the Hyundai Genesis?

About the same size as the DTS, but with Rear Wheel Drive...DOHC 4.6L V8...375HP...0 to 60 in 6 seconds flat... 2009 Car of The Year...and loaded out...about $15,000 less than a Cadillac.

Pretty respectable for a first year offering.
I have not looked at one up close, but the specs look pretty good.

Texas Jim
 

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2006 DTS Black Raven
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162 Posts
Jim I've seen them close up and yes they are nice. I almost forgot I was in my lac. It's a very nice car. Roomy with a lot of muscle. If GM gets rid of Cadillac I'm prolly gonna end up getting something else when I pay this one off. Caddy keeps it true to what we like minus a couple things we can all agree on but I can't see the fate of Cadillac in the hands of another country. Not the same. You see whats happening to the loyal Pontiac fans. I still want a Firebird Formula. I don't know. Only time will tell where we stand. I had read somewhere online that Cadillac was gonna phase out the DTS in a few years anyway. Even if GM keeps them we will have to worry about the future of the DTS. GM has no one to blame but themselves and we have to suffer. Chevrolet is my backup just in case. Want a Silverado so bad.
 

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2005 Cadillac DeVille DTS
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The future of the Cadillac division - and the rest of GM for that matter - is bleak.

Perhaps the best hope for Cadillac continuing building cars that normal people would still want would be if it were sold to the Chinese, as c5rv illustrated. Unfortunately, we'll likely never get do drive those cars because they'll be deemed too big, inefficient, not environmentally friendly, and completely unnecessary in modern America. Plus, I can’t see a Chinese built copy being as good as the American original. After all, look how popular BUICK is in China.

The sale of Hummer to the Chinese just goes to show you how ass-backwards this country is fast becoming. Ironic how the communist Chinese are forward thinking and believe in progress, while the democratic United States is sliding towards Third-Worldism.

In the interim, until the eventual demise of GM, under government control, think Cadillac Cimmaron and “environmentally friendly” hybrids with 3, 4 and 5 cylinders, maybe turbo or supercharged if we’re lucky, and perhaps a V-6 for the new Subaru sized Escalade. Think double or triple 0-60 times. The days of the Escalade, XLR, DTS and any V-series as we know them are numbered. How else do you expect GM to meet C.A.F.E. standards.

Do the math, C.A.F.E. just can’t be met alone with Chevy and certainly not with the Buick and GMC lineup. Cadillac is gonna have to take the hit. Just as C.A.F.E. standards and the associated “downsizing” nearly destroyed Cadillac by the mid 1980s and nearly bankrupted GM, this round will finish off Cadillac and GM for good. It’s deja vous all over again. Only this time imports are much stronger than they were in the 1980s.

Don’t be surprised if the CTS become the flagship, but only as a hybrid with a 3 or 4 cylinder engine. Let me take my V predication back… they’ll stick a V on the 4-cylinder hybrid.

Of course, all of this will do is turn away traditional Cadillac loyalists, and the younger demographic will continue to flock towards imports. GM and Cadillac are done. If I am wrong, aside from the US military, please cite for me an example of anything the government runs well.
 

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2006 DTS Lux III
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TX Jim,
I checked out the Genesis in person when my wife was looking at the Hyundai SUV's and have to say that it was even more impressive than the hype that I had heard on the net and in the car magazines. The interior is absolutely gorgeous. The leather incredible. It seems like a much nicer version of the BMW 7 series. Not really a direct competitor to the DTS and Lexus as a pure luxury car. It is more sports-luxury. It is only $35k which is cheap compared t the competition but expensive for a Hyundai. I don't know how it'll sell. If people had open minds and didn't care about the name on the car, they'd do great. But most people wanting a Benz or a BMW wouldn't want to be seen driving a Hyundai. It'll take time for people's perceptions to change. Until recently I thought that they stunk too. I had a couple friends who bought Hyundai's in the early 90's and their interiors were indeed garbage, so I thought that they were cranking out cheap looking interiors. A few years ago on a whim we looked at Kia when my wife was looking for a car and ran into the Amanti which she bought. It is a nice car. The interior is luxurious on par with Lexus and the exterior looks like a Lincoln Town Car was out on a bender and had unprotected sex with a Jaguar S-Type and the Jag smoke some cigs and drank a little too heavily during the pregnancy... Hyundai has come a long way since the Rodney King era models.

JJM,
I was thinking the same thing about how silly this whole thing is with China. For years as a kid I heard how the US and free market capitalism made it great and how communism would self destruct economically, after all the USSR did. What a line of BS I bought. Look who seems to be the economic powerhouse now, Red China. Not saying that I'd want to live there. Something in my stomach turned when China bought HUMMER. Who knows what else they own? I heard that they were upset about their US investments. Because now we're underperforming. It's their damn cheap labor and our addiction to cheap crap that's made them the economic powerhouse.

When I tiled the floors in my house, instead of renting tools, I ran out to Harbor Freight (they sell dirt cheap no name Chinese tools) and bought the questionable demolition hammer and tile saw because it was cheaper than renting the pro stuff from Home Depot for one day and the project took my about four months. I'm guilty, I like cheap stuff too but what else could I do, I bet that even if I bought the expensive stuff at Home Depot, the Bosch, Hitachi, etc. it would've been made in China too.

Also, although I hated G.W. Bush and how he helped run down the economy and my savings and retirement (did he do anything but be obsessed with Iraq, I think that his dad had the right idea about Saddam. At the time I wanted Schwartzkopf to go into Baghdad and get him and I was upset with Bush senior. But now I realize that he was right to try to keep the place stable and leave Saddam alone. Now the without the Iraqi checks and balances, Iran is running wild too and Iraq is wasting our resources), I think that this BS that Obama is laying on us, seemingly every week, is even worse. The tight CAFE standards, the FDA and Tobacco, the glee about the automobile bankruptcies, and the control of GM, the banks, and the AMA/Healthcare issue. Right now this country looks like its headed the way of the Roman Empire. I am very disappointed right now; lost half my retirement and my freedoms are being taken away.

D.
 

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2017 MB C300 Cabriolet, 2019 Volvo V90CC
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Not that very long ago, universities came up with an idea to get people to go back to school and contribute to the school's bottom line. It was called an MBA. And MBA taught that hardware and inventory and manufacturing capability were dirty words that negatively affected profit. And so it became very fashionable--socially acceptable as it were--to outsource everything that would soil your hands. So the obvious solution for GM is to oursource the design of cars, maybe to some of the Japanese design studios in California, then outsource the manufacturing to China. Before distributing these vehicles for sale, have someone stop by a rented office space in Detroit where a very elite group of MBA's will charge $1000.00 to put a "Cadillac" or "Buick" name on them, then sell these Cadillacs and Buicks to independent "car mart" for sale to the public. Voila the new GM.

Sad what we've done to our capabilities in this country. If WW2 had happened today, we'd have to surrender cause we could never produce the war machines to win.....

Maybe GM should do what Lexus did when they first entered the market: Not charge what the market would bear, but concentrate on quality, both in manufacturing and in service, and offer their products at a very reasonable price. I didn't have too much of a problem seeing a DTS at $50K list. But I was surprised to see a loaded CTS for even more. And a STS for $65k? I don't think so, especially when you read their site here and see all the technical issues. And not when your have the Genesis out there at half the price and lookin' good. The resale value of a car is a pretty good indication of its real worth, and we all know what GM cars look like after a couple years....
 

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Sedan de Ville, CTS
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Not being against my Cadillac in any way...you know how much I like it... but...
Have you looked at the Hyundai Genesis?

About the same size as the DTS, but with Rear Wheel Drive...DOHC 4.6L V8...375HP...0 to 60 in 6 seconds flat... 2009 Car of The Year...and loaded out...about $15,000 less than a Cadillac.

Pretty respectable for a first year offering.
I have not looked at one up close, but the specs look pretty good.

Texas Jim
Talk to some of the Hyundai mechanics, and you will immediately change your mind about owning a Hyundai.

Better yet, drive a Caddy, and then drive a Hyundai down the same road. Then tell me that you want a Hyundai as a replacement for your Caddy.
 

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2017 Cadillac XT5; 2013 Cadillac XTS
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The fact is , as has been pointed out, the era of big cars with large multi-cylinder engines is essentially over by our order of our government. With FIAT owning Chrysler and the feds virtually owning GM, what will be soon coming to your local dealer will be a hybrid econobox. If the public balks at buying these shoeboxes, then plan B will be immediately (rather than gradually) implemented: an ever-rising tax on gasoline until the government's numbers are met and exceeded. Gas at $5.00 a gallon will be recalled as dirt cheap.

Already the assault on the 2nd Amendment has started. Go down to your local sports store and try to buy ammunition for your hunting rifle, shotgun or sidearm. If rationing doesn't work, then the same tax ploy will be undertaken.

If you have any doubt as to the efficacy of the Feds to implement any change in your life style they deem appropriate you only have to ask the tobacco industry.
 

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2011 DTS Platinum
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Man...y'all are painting a bleak scenario...about our beloved Cadillacs. :tisk: :tisk:

I fear that you are correct, but I truly hope that you are not.

About the econobox being the only thing you can buy in a few years...
I do not want one, nor does it fit what we want to do with an automobile.

I am getting on in years, with semi-bad hips and knees.
My Darling Wife of 40 years, is somewhat mobility impaired.
When we take vacations, it is mostly just driving and looking at our wonderful country as we drive along.

We really can't do that in an econobox.
No room.
No comfort.
I would not subject her to the rigors of traveling in one of them.

We actually NEED the room and comfort of a big automobile.

If it comes down to that being the only choice...we will be pretty much home-bound...as we could not physically take long trips in one of them.

My only other plan, is to buy one of the last of the big 'uns and then just keeping it forever.
 

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1996 Cadillac Eldorado ETC
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Lately I have considered going on a Cadillac buying frenzy, purchasing big cadillacs from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's I don't believe we will ever see those big comfortable caddy's again, even if GM and Cadillac do survive. It seems as if the classic look of the Cadillac has been sacrificed lately in the name of trying to be European. A Caddy is NOT a european car! It is American with it's own distinct American style or at least it used to be. The CTS is fine but Cadillac can't survive without a modern, sophisticated luxury barge.
 

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At the age of 72, my current plan is to drive this DTS until the wheels fall off. My wheels should fall off about the same time. So I don't much care what they do. As people buy their econobox's I will blow them into the weeds with one of the last V8s.
 

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Sedan de Ville, CTS
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Man...y'all are painting a bleak scenario...about our beloved Cadillacs. :tisk: :tisk:

I fear that you are correct, but I truly hope that you are not.

About the econobox being the only thing you can buy in a few years...
I do not want one, nor does it fit what we want to do with an automobile.

I am getting on in years, with semi-bad hips and knees.
My Darling Wife of 40 years, is somewhat mobility impaired.
When we take vacations, it is mostly just driving and looking at our wonderful country as we drive along.

We really can't do that in an econobox.
No room.
No comfort.
I would not subject her to the rigors of traveling in one of them.

We actually NEED the room and comfort of a big automobile.

If it comes down to that being the only choice...we will be pretty much home-bound...as we could not physically take long trips in one of them.

My only other plan, is to buy one of the last of the big 'uns and then just keeping it forever.
Just borrow your congressman's limo.
 

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2011 CTS4 Premium, Saturn Vue XR
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Cadillac would be the last to go, it`s the biggest seller for GM and is still going strong despite the problems GM has. Saturn division has been bought by Roger Penske, Pontiac is toast! not to worry... Hummer is next on chopping block. If Cadillac goes GM wouldn`t exist. It`s the same with Ford and their Lincoln line..strongest sellers.
 

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2008 DTS LUX III - Gold Mist traded for 2004 Tbird
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"Cadillac would be the last to go, it`s the biggest seller for GM and is still going strong despite the problems GM has."

As you say, Cadillac sales are fine. (But nowhere near the biggest seller! Not even close!) Of course that doesn't ALWAYS mean you will survive.
Pontiac has been the #3 seller in the company for some time......but as you say.....they are toast.
Sales are one thing, profit is another.


Here are the sales numbers from 2008. 2008 featured many new sales by the CTS and very bad numbers by the DTS. And of course the overall numbers
for 2008 were terrible for everybody, not just gM.

Chevrolet - 2,156,288
GMC - 438,176
Pontiac - 382,949
Saturn - 206,733
Cadillac - 170,481
Buick - 154,275
Hummer - 29,968
Saab - 23,186
Opel - 1935


The numbers were a lot higher in 2007, but the rankings were the same except that Cadillac and Saturn swapped
positions on the list.


Cadillac carries the "prestige" of the company.
Of course, one could justifiably ask, How much prestige is there in driving a Government Motors car........

I assure you that Ford sells many, many more cars and trucks than Lincoln.
 

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Cadillacs: '13 CTS Cpe, '71 Eldo Conv
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The fact is , as has been pointed out, the era of big cars with large multi-cylinder engines is essentially over by our order of our government. With FIAT owning Chrysler and the feds virtually owning GM, what will be soon coming to your local dealer will be a hybrid econobox. If the public balks at buying these shoeboxes, then plan B will be immediately (rather than gradually) implemented: an ever-rising tax on gasoline until the government's numbers are met and exceeded. Gas at $5.00 a gallon will be recalled as dirt cheap.

Already the assault on the 2nd Amendment has started. Go down to your local sports store and try to buy ammunition for your hunting rifle, shotgun or sidearm. If rationing doesn't work, then the same tax ploy will be undertaken.

If you have any doubt as to the efficacy of the Feds to implement any change in your life style they deem appropriate you only have to ask the tobacco industry.

I used to not believe the tide could be swept completely against the traditional American cars, but with the demise of General Motors as we knew it, and the complete change of the social and political spectrum, I'm afraid environmentalists are winning. Maybe I'm just getting old, but watching the news makes me more cynical everyday. Another assault on American's personal freedoms passed today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_tobacco

The traditional (full-sized), personal automobile will not be spared. Econoboxes, treated like an appliance for commuting, will be "de rigeur." It's all very unfortunate for the American auto industry. :ill:
 

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I used to not believe the tide could be swept completely against the traditional American cars, but with the demise of General Motors as we knew it, and the complete change of the social and political spectrum, I'm afraid environmentalists are winning. Maybe I'm just getting old, but watching the news makes me more cynical everyday. Another assault on American's personal freedoms passed today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_tobacco

The traditional (full-sized), personal automobile will not be spared. Econoboxes, treated like an appliance for commuting, will be "de rigeur." It's all very unfortunate for the American auto industry. :ill:
You can still buy a full size luxury car with a V8( and V12 in some cases)
Lexus, BMW and Mercedes all offer them...those are the top three sellers of luxury cars in the United States( in that order)...and I am sure their full size cars will be available for some time


Warren
 

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Just today I heard a promo for an upcoming interview on National Public Radio and they mentioned that to survive GM may need to sell the Cadillac division. I was so surprised I missed when the interview was to take place.
For what it is worth I am one who wanted to replace my 2002 DHS with 132K but got fed up with the lack of styling change and threw a new set of tires on instead. I am still waiting. I had considered a CTS which is a nice looking car but the mileage is not much better than my DHS which was frustrating considering the size difference.
 

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2006 DTS Black Raven
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So I'm reading the news on CNN at work as I always do when I get bored. I happen to see an article about GM plans for new vehicles and everything. I was scrolling through the list of cars. I think it was about 7 in all that GM is releasing. I get to the last screen shot and I see this monstrosity. I think to myself Cadillac is really losing their mind. No wonder they are in the situation they are in. The vehicle in question is the new CTS Wagon they are going to release.

Who was their target audience and who designed this thing? Very bad taste in my opinion. I've been waiting for Cadillac to at least attempt a release of a pickup but a wagon. Most people I see get wagon are sometimes young people my age but they aren't going to pay almost $36K for one. Are you serious. I'm just wondering what options I'm going to have once I get old. I can't see myself in anything else, but it's pretty obvious that they are losing focus with the consumer. It's only a matter of time before we have to turn to something else because of things like this. I guess I will have to just hold onto my DTS til the wheels fall off to have some sort of remnant of what Caddy you used to be.
 

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2011 DTS Platinum
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So I'm reading the news on CNN at work as I always do when I get bored. I happen to see an article about GM plans for new vehicles and everything. I was scrolling through the list of cars. I think it was about 7 in all that GM is releasing. I get to the last screen shot and I see this monstrosity. I think to myself Cadillac is really losing their mind. No wonder they are in the situation they are in. The vehicle in question is the new CTS Wagon they are going to release.

Who was their target audience and who designed this thing? Very bad taste in my opinion. I've been waiting for Cadillac to at least attempt a release of a pickup but a wagon. Most people I see get wagon are sometimes young people my age but they aren't going to pay almost $36K for one. Are you serious. I'm just wondering what options I'm going to have once I get old. I can't see myself in anything else, but it's pretty obvious that they are losing focus with the consumer. It's only a matter of time before we have to turn to something else because of things like this. I guess I will have to just hold onto my DTS til the wheels fall off to have some sort of remnant of what Caddy you used to be.

As you can see from ,y age...we are (obviously) from two different generations :)

I have seen a couple of pics of the new wagon... I didn't think it was too bad at all. :stirpot: :stirpot:

I don't think it will have the comfort and front seat room I will be looking for.. but that is a different story all together.
I will be looking for a BIG car, and it is looking more and more like I will be out of luck, unless I buy one of the last of the big DTS's and then just plan on keeping it for a really long time. :) :)

Texas Jim
 
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