[searacer]

I sent them off today with the clips on and fully intact on the fuel rail, they will take them off and put new ones back on. I pryed one off then I stopped figured they must have a tool for this. Thanks for the post

 

[searacer]

Hey guy's

I have (2) questions concerning the fuel injectors installation.

1. When I removed the fuel rails it was really hard tight fit getting them out with the injectors attached but I was able too after a couple of hours. Is there a technique to install the fuel rail assembles to get them back in?
2. I had the injectors and rails cleaned they were returned unassembled is there a special tool required to install the retaining clips around the injectors or you just use force?

 

[redheadedrod]

Same injectors I have... I used a pair of pliers and a flathead screwdriver... You will bend them a little getting them back on but the GM tool doesn't do a much better job. Unless you have a press available.. You MAY be able to do it with a press if you are VERY careful and align it as you go. I slightly bent all of mine and you can hear them click just a little bit. You COULD possibly put a small dab of high temp silicon on them and let them dry before you reinstall them. You will see what I mean when you do it. The goober will hopefully prevent the loud clicking you will otherwise hear and not interfere with their operation. Just make sure you put it on the clip area ONLY.

When you reinstall you have to slide them into place. I forget which side goes which direction but you install about 2 inches towards the back or the front of the engine and they slide right in. again you should be able to figure it out when you try it. If you had to move one forward, the other moves back. It will seem wierd at first but when you get it right it will be obvious.

Also there is an order you have to tighten the bolts in and they have a torque setting for them. Which is VERY light since they are very small 10mm bolts. I think it was like 13ft/lbs and my tool only went to 15 at the lowest setting. I snapped off one of the bolts.. Then tightened it by feel when I got the old bolt out... Some swearing WAS involved...

I can post the order and torque tomorrow. If I forget PM me and remind me.. Got a lot going on right now.

 

[searacer]

Same injectors I have... I used a pair of pliers and a flathead screwdriver... You will bend them a little getting them back on but the GM tool doesn't do a much better job. Unless you have a press available.. You MAY be able to do it with a press if you are VERY careful and align it as you go. I slightly bent all of mine and you can hear them click just a little bit. You COULD possibly put a small dab of high temp silicon on them and let them dry before you reinstall them. You will see what I mean when you do it. The goober will hopefully prevent the loud clicking you will otherwise hear and not interfere with their operation. Just make sure you put it on the clip area ONLY.

When you reinstall you have to slide them into place. I forget which side goes which direction but you install about 2 inches towards the back or the front of the engine and they slide right in. again you should be able to figure it out when you try it. If you had to move one forward, the other moves back. It will seem wierd at first but when you get it right it will be obvious.

Also there is an order you have to tighten the bolts in and they have a torque setting for them. Which is VERY light since they are very small 10mm bolts. I think it was like 13ft/lbs and my tool only went to 15 at the lowest setting. I snapped off one of the bolts.. Then tightened it by feel when I got the old bolt out... Some swearing WAS involved...

I can post the order and torque tomorrow. If I forget PM me and remind me.. Got a lot going on right now.

Well, I got the injector clips on all of them, thank goodness it's only a 6 cylinder. Would the torque be 7.5 lb ft ?

 

[redheadedrod]

Sounds about right.. If I recall you tighten them from inside out. I would tighten them to a lesser amount first then to the higher amount.

I found it online for a camaro LFX. Will be the same configuration for yours.

Here is something that may help... I did not actually watch these but it looks like it covers it. I may go back and watch these myself a little later.
This goes from opening the hood through the end I believe. Also note that this is for a FWD car but most should apply in one shape or form. The engine is the same style and should relate directly. Watching it now

 

[searacer]

Well,I finally got both fuel rails back in, I now can give advice on how to reinstall fuel rails with injectors for GM 3.0 LFW, I'm not got to sugar coat it. It was a bitch to get them back in.

 

[redheadedrod]

Glad to hear you got them back in. If you shift them like I mentioned they are easy to get in and out. Once you figure out the motion to do so they install pretty easy. I think I removed the pressure sensor though when I did mine and that made a big difference. And the coolant line that is right there.

 

[searacer]

Well it appears cleaning the injectors didn't correct the bad idle almost like it wants to die at idle but when given it more gas with the pedal (1500 RPMs) runs and sounds great!!

P 0302 Cylinder misfire issue flashing check engine light, once clear the check engine light and rev the engine up to 1500 rpms the check engine light doesn't come back. let off the gas and misfire cylinder 2 "P 0302"

1 I've checked for vacuum leaks twice
2 changed all spark plugs
3 check coil pack was firing with meter and pulled the coil pack done visually fire jumping to ground
4 reconditioned all injectors with new seals
5 cleaned MAS sensor
6 no PVC valve to change out
7 throttle body cleaned

Anyone have idea what the hell it could be?

 

[Long]

Forgive me for not rereading the thread.
Have you swapped coils to see if the misfire follows?

 

[searacer]

Forgive me for not rereading the thread.
Have you swapped coils to see if the misfire follows?

Yes, I've swapped coil packs with Cylinder 1,

 

[searacer]

I hate to give up if it's a matter of eliminating each possible cause. It doesn't through any misfire and runs great if I give it a little gas (1500) rpms

 

[Long]

Yes, I've swapped coil packs with Cylinder 1,

OK, guess I shouldn't have been so lazy and just read it through again. My bad.
Did you follow Joseph's recommendations in post #16?

 

[searacer]

I ran the car just now and connected my scan tool looked at FRP (PSI) 500 -700) turned the engine off and fail off rapidly

 

[searacer]

It would be better for you, if you maintained one thread involving the different stages as you address the same issue, for example, I don't recall all of the details from your very first post, prior to arriving at this point, to know if I'm being of any more help, or leaving out info that might be useful to you.

Don't tamper with that injector before you have developed reasonably good suspicion that it is the problem. DI injector removal is not as simple as port injector removal and by far it is more expensive than port injector servicing. If you have not at least accessed the high pressure fuel rail reading with a scan tool and observed it with the motor off, ignition on after a brief run, to note whether the pressure holds for a while, or quickly bleeds off, you would probably be symbolically opening a can of worms and spilling them on the fishing deck.

There are two hard fuel pipes that are one time use, between the pump and the rail and then both rails that will total around $100 to replace. The fuel pressure sensor on the rail is one time use and may need to be removed to get the rail out, the retainers for the injectors are one time use, the very important seals on the injector nozzles are one time use and they will likely come out as a set of three. They are often not easy to remove without the special tool designed to extract them.

I ran the car around the neighborhood and connected my scan tool looked at FRP (PSI) 500 -700) (I'm assuming it's the fuel rail pressure ) turned the engine off and the pressure falls off quickly. it doesn't hold or fail slow. What does this indicate? I did not replace the small tubing (pipe) after reinstalling the fuel injectors. The car now is a little harder to start I'm have to press the gas pedal where I didn't before to start the car. Any help I would be greatful

 

[Joseph Upson]

I ran the car around the neighborhood and connected my scan tool looked at FRP (PSI) 500 -700) (I'm assuming it's the fuel rail pressure ) turned the engine off and the pressure falls off quickly. it doesn't hold or fail slow. What does this indicate? I did not replace the small tubing (pipe) after reinstalling the fuel injectors. The car now is a little harder to start I'm have to press the gas pedal where I didn't before to start the car. Any help I would be greatful

I don't see where you checked the in tank fuel pressure yet. Check the in tank fuel pressure with the engine off. You may need to cycle the pump a couple of times. You should get a reading between ~53-60 psi.

Once you have done that, leave the gauge connected. Start the car with the scan tool connected and registering fuel rail pressure which should be in the range of 500 to 600 psi at hot idle. Keep a fire extinguisher, or a means to put out a fire close by.

With the mechanical gauge on the low side fuel line, have someone shut the engine down while you watch the low side connected fuel pressure gauge. When the engine is shut off, that pressure should not exceed 60 psi, or the peak static pressure you observed (the needle will oscillate with the motor running). If it spikes upward by several psi, say close to 70 psi, or more and then bleeds down to 60 psi and holds steady, bleeding off a little at a time (no more than 5 psi per minute), that's a sign your high pressure pump is bad and is bypassing fuel.

From what you describe, that appears to be what is happening. The low side fuel pressure system is not designed to be subjected to pressures well in excess of 100 psi, and if your injectors are not leaking, the only place for the fuel to exit the high pressure system at the rail, is either back through the pump to the low pressure side, back into the tank, or out the bottom of the high pressure pump into the crank case. Check your oil level.

The hard start is also a sign of a fueling problem and part throttle cranking assist with good results, is another sign of insufficient starting fuel under normal cranking conditions, as additional throttle during starts does provide additional fuel until the accelerator pedal reaches about 75%, or more which activates clear flood mode and cuts fuel entirely.

I have not seen any documentation on what should be observed in regards to the fuel rail pressure at shut down, but I'm confident that the pressure should not bleed off in an instant.

 

[Joseph Upson]

Is there a schraeder valve on the fuel rail for checking the pressure? This will be my next check is fuel pressure, engine idles rough and only at about 600 rpm's but if I give it a little gas it smooths out and feel just a slight miss. Sometimes I get a P 0302 and that # 2 cylinder has been checked.

I'm working through the process of resolving P 0300 error step by step.
No vacuum leaks found on hoses
Changed all spark plugs
Check on the ignition coils for firing, all good
Checked the fuel throttle body and cleaned

Looking at the pictures associated with the above post on page one, my engine readings from earlier this week at hot idle for the MAF and TPS% were; 5.1 g/s and 5.9%, that is relative however, we have different engine displacements managed by different computers. If you were not applying the throttle at that time, I'd investigate those values further as 25% throttle and 0% pedal at idle does not add up, calling for a closer look at the throttle body. Check your long term fuel trims also, the closer to 0 the better.

The direct injected motor is very sensitive to fueling instabilities, it doesn't take much to cause a misfire.

 

[searacer]

I don't see where you checked the in tank fuel pressure yet. Check the in tank fuel pressure with the engine off. You may need to cycle the pump a couple of times. You should get a reading between ~53-60 psi.

Once you have done that, leave the gauge connected. Start the car with the scan tool connected and registering fuel rail pressure which should be in the range of 500 to 600 psi at hot idle. Keep a fire extinguisher, or a means to put out a fire close by.

With the mechanical gauge on the low side fuel line, have someone shut the engine down while you watch the low side connected fuel pressure gauge. When the engine is shut off, that pressure should not exceed 60 psi, or the peak static pressure you observed (the needle will oscillate with the motor running). If it spikes upward by several psi, say close to 70 psi, or more and then bleeds down to 60 psi and holds steady, bleeding off a little at a time (no more than 5 psi per minute), that's a sign your high pressure pump is bad and is bypassing fuel.

From what you describe, that appears to be what is happening. The low side fuel pressure system is not designed to be subjected to pressures well in excess of 100 psi, and if your injectors are not leaking, the only place for the fuel to exit the high pressure system at the rail, is either back through the pump to the low pressure side, back into the tank, or out the bottom of the high pressure pump into the crank case. Check your oil level.

The hard start is also a sign of a fueling problem and part throttle cranking assist with good results, is another sign of insufficient starting fuel under normal cranking conditions, as additional throttle during starts does provide additional fuel until the accelerator pedal reaches about 75%, or more which activates clear flood mode and cuts fuel entirely.

I have not seen any documentation on what should be observed in regards to the fuel rail pressure at shut down, but I'm confident that the pressure should not bleed off in an instant.

I bought a fuel injector test kit and performed the test, results are low-pressure cycle the key I have right at 60 PSI with my scanner I have about 600 PSI at idea 600 RPMs, 1500 psi at 1500 rpms (given it a little gas) with the engine started the low pressure rapidly cycles between 50-60 PSI turning the engine off it doesn't go up it holds about 55 psi and very slowly dropping like you indicated yesterday drops only about 5 psi 5 minutes.
Would this be indicating the high-pressure pumps isn't putting out enough?

 

[Joseph Upson]

So far it all looks good as far as the pumps are concerned. The low pressure oscillates because of the pulsing action from the high pressure pump which momentarily stops incoming fuel on its compression stroke.

What does the rail pressure drop to with engine off, key on immediately after shut down, which might require you to briefly interrupt data flow to the scanner?

Check your long term fuel trims also.

It's possible your injectors may be the problem despite cleaning.

You may need to drive it a little longer to set a code. In the meantime, check your long term fuel trim values, safely observe your high pressure fuel pump values while being driven (pressure should be trendy and reproducible, not all over the place and any dips down into, or near 300 psi would be highly questionable) as a bad pump can be intermittent. Use your scanner to check for pending codes, if it has that ability.

Check your major sensor inputs with key on engine off, MAF sensor, TPS position, coolant and engine temps. If this still does not help flush out the problem, disconnect the Purge solenoid line from the intake and plug both ends to prevent a vacuum leak, and attempt to start the car under the conditions you normally have the hard start and see if it improves performance. It's possible the valve can be stuck open leading to a hard start and contributing to the misfire problem.

Codes do not always set to identify problem sensors in the manner that they should, hence the frequency of complaints about taking a problem vehicle to the dealer and they not being able to perform a warranty repair due to the absence of a code.


Take a look at this link;

Changing fuel injectors myself

Does anyone have a good procedure to follow for changing the fuel injectors on a 2009 E? Near as i can tell I will need the injectors, new seals and hold down kit, and a couple crossover pipes. Possibly a few special tools? #5 cylinder is sticking/dumping fuel into cylinder and dealership wants...

www.enclaveforum.net

 

[searacer]

The fuel rail pressure drops like a rock after s/d the engine. it's quickly fails. Here is all the codes for the fuel trims I haven't any idea what this means.

 

[searacer]

So far it all looks good as far as the pumps are concerned. The low pressure oscillates because of the pulsing action from the high pressure pump which momentarily stops incoming fuel on its compression stroke.

What does the rail pressure drop to with engine off, key on immediately after shut down, which might require you to briefly interrupt data flow to the scanner?

Check your long term fuel trims also.

It's possible your injectors may be the problem despite cleaning.

You may need to drive it a little longer to set a code. In the meantime, check your long term fuel trim values, safely observe your high pressure fuel pump values while being driven (pressure should be trendy and reproducible, not all over the place and any dips down into, or near 300 psi would be highly questionable) as a bad pump can be intermittent. Use your scanner to check for pending codes, if it has that ability.

Check your major sensor inputs with key on engine off, MAF sensor, TPS position, coolant and engine temps. If this still does not help flush out the problem, disconnect the Purge solenoid line from the intake and plug both ends to prevent a vacuum leak, and attempt to start the car under the conditions you normally have the hard start and see if it improves performance. It's possible the valve can be stuck open leading to a hard start and contributing to the misfire problem.

Codes do not always set to identify problem sensors in the manner that they should, hence the frequency of complaints about taking a problem vehicle to the dealer and they not being able to perform a warranty repair due to the absence of a code.


Take a look at this link;

Changing fuel injectors myself

Does anyone have a good procedure to follow for changing the fuel injectors on a 2009 E? Near as i can tell I will need the injectors, new seals and hold down kit, and a couple crossover pipes. Possibly a few special tools? #5 cylinder is sticking/dumping fuel into cylinder and dealership wants...

www.enclaveforum.net

fuel rail pressure drops like a rock after s/d the engine. it's quickly fails. Here is all the codes for the fuel trims I haven't any idea what this means. The next thread are the scanner readings