FORGET IT 100K CRAZY I am off the list!

3564 Views 26 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Vrocks, Oct 24, 2005

thoredan

Discussion Starter · Oct 7, 2005

NO F****** way CRAZY what are they thinking Some one like me might might pay 89k MSRP for one but at 100K NEVER its not worth it . PEROID wake UP GM price it right or it will not sell not even one! I have a xlr now and there is no way I am gona pay 30k more just for 120 HP and bigger wheels, hell I can do aftermarket for less and make it they was I want it.

THIS IS GONA BE UGLY FOR GM. BAD BAD BAD.

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harryctsv

· #2 · Oct 7, 2005

thoredan said:
NO F****** way CRAZY what are they thinking Some one like me might might pay 89k MSRP for one but at 100K NEVER its not worth it . PEROID wake UP GM price it right or it will not sell not even one! I have a xlr now and there is no way I am gona pay 30k more just for 120 HP and bigger wheels, hell I can do aftermarket for less and make it they was I want it.

THIS IS GONA BE UGLY FOR GM. BAD BAD BAD.

Hi thoredan,
this is exactly my mind. I´m very happy with my 04 XLR right now, just put on the Corsa exhaust and that was real needed, maybe the sound of mine is now even better than of the 100 k V.

Well, the suede leather in the seats, the dark wood, the grill, the raised hood and the wheels look real good on the V but not for 25 K plus.

Harry

50cal

· #3 · Oct 7, 2005 (Edited)

You really thought that a SC'd XLR with a stunning leather lined interior, bigger wheels, rear sway bar, re-tuned suspension, 6spd auto, different hood, grille, adaptive headlights, etc.

That it was only going to run you an additional $12K-$13k over a standard XLR!!!!

If so, you were dreaming.

AznPrydeRegalRyde

· #4 · Oct 7, 2005

harryctsv said:
Hi thoredan,
this is exactly my mind. I´m very happy with my 04 XLR right now, just put on the Corsa exhaust and that was real needed, maybe the sound of mine is now even better than of the 100 k V.

Well, the suede leather in the seats, the dark wood, the grill, the raised hood and the wheels look real good on the V but not for 25 K plus.

Harry

So explain how your CTS-V is worth so much more then the CTS?

DG2

· #5 · Oct 8, 2005

Gentelman,

$23,000 more for a hand built supercharged XLR-V with all of the other V goodies is a bargin ! This is going to be one beautiful car and I really-really want one. I think the customer base that can afford a near $80,000 stanadard XLR will have no problem with the $100,000 V. I think these babies will sell out as soon as they roll out.

Remember, the CTS-V is $20,000 more then the base CTS. The BMW M5 is $40,000 plus more then the base 5 series. Same for the AMG class. $35-$40k more for the AMG SL500 orver the base model. You want the top perfromers you must be willing to pay. :thepan:

Afreet1

· #6 · Oct 8, 2005

I was budgeting for about $85-$89k for the XLR-V, given it is a new performance car from Cadillac and the XLR has not been selling well at its current price point.

If this news about the $100k price for the XLR-V is accurate, I may walk into the dealer to take a look at the changes, but I certainly won't flag down a salesperson to start talking options. For $85k I was ready to put down a deposit to get my name on the dealer allocation. And just for reference, I am not normally price sensitive to cars. It is the specifications, curbside appeal and performance that will dictate my decision. Price comes in at the final stages.

DG2

· #7 · Oct 8, 2005

Afreet1 said:
I was budgeting for about $85-$89k for the XLR-V, given it is a new performance car from Cadillac and the XLR has not been selling well at its current price point.

If this news about the $100k price for the XLR-V is accurate, I may walk into the dealer to take a look at the changes, but I certainly won't flag down a salesperson to start talking options. For $85k I was ready to put down a deposit to get my name on the dealer allocation. And just for reference, I am not normally price sensitive to cars. It is the specifications, curbside appeal and performance that will dictate my decision. Price comes in at the final stages.

Think about what you are saying. You think the XLR V should be priced at $8,000 more then the base XLR? No way. The wheels alone cost $8,000.

Afreet1

· #8 · Oct 8, 2005

I know exactly what I am saying. I am not arguing that if Cadillac is going to hold true to their current pricing method of having the CTS-V approximately 28-30% over a fully loaded CTS then the $77,000 XLR with the same markup is going to be $98,000-$100,000.

Or if you want to take it from a different approach of a supercharger costing approximately $6,000, and $2,400 for new wheels, plus $500 more for random small upgrades brings you to about $9k. Add that to the base XLR which has many of the features in the XLR-V and you get 77+9= $86k. Take the extra $3k and put it towards different intakes or exhaust and you are at $89k. Not to mention that those were based on retail prices and not any purchasing agreements that Cadillac may have through its vendors.

My MAIN point is that if you took the XLR-V and put it in a focus group that is composed of the appropriate demographics; let's say in this case affluent car shoppers currently in the market for something sporty yet luxurious, that it would not reach $100,000 for a price.

If we were to poll the "gut reactions" of the people in that focus group about what the first images that came to their mind with the XLR-V COMPETITORS, I am willing to bet you hear words like "cutting-Edge", "ultimate driving machine", etc. Cadillac is on the right path to get there, but is NOT there yet. Since Cadillac does not have this status level (even if they may have had it in the pre-1980s era), they can't demand a price that incorporates that status, even though the Power/weight is exactly matching the SL55 AMG.

Now I am sure Cadillac has had many focus groups look at the XLR-V, it would be very stupid if they didn't. I am just wondering how they came up with $100,000 when I consider myself in that same demographic and my gut reaction is no more than $90,000.

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DG2

· #9 · Oct 8, 2005

Point made on "gut reactions". Even those with wealth will stop when they see a starting price of $100,000 and think twice. The buyer of a V will be not be your average "rich guy or gal", rather a buyer whom is a real performance car enthusiast.

The same argument you are making on the V's price was said when Cadillac rolled out the base XLR. These types of discussions were going on when Cadillac announced the $77,000 price tag of the XLR. One could state that the XLR should have been no more then $65,000. We all can still question the pricing but Cadillac is not gradually going way up market they are taking a risk and throwing themselfs right into the top tier segment. A move that required much "moxy" and I think they did the right thing.

Cadillac/GM brass know the power of the brand they have. Only GM could have afforded the over $5 billion to reinvent Cadillac. Their sales numbers are showing it is working. Hence, (your point not withstanding,) the XLR V will be a huge success as it will represent the best of the best.

PS- the Northstar engine used in the V has much more to it then the Roots Supercharger. Your cost estimates are off .

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ccclarke

· #10 · Oct 9, 2005

Let's look at recent history for a second to get an idea of where this might be going. . . Cadillac had a good-selling vehicle with the CTS. It really helped re-invigorate their performance image, especially to a younger demographic. So they continue with the faceted design shape, and start shaving corners off the entire line, model by model, but not all at once, so as not to alienate their traditional, older, more affluent buyers. GM introduces a new Cadillac model (flagship) with the XLR. Then they decide to go one further with enhancing their performance image and start producing ultra-high performance versions of several models.
Consider sales. The CTS as a whole did and continues to sell quite well. The V model did pretty good too, but didn't set the world on fire, as GM hoped. New 04's were still available recently. The XLR on the other hand, has not been a solid seller. It's track record (for speedy sales) is not inspiring and inventory has been high. New, 04 models are still available. I really hope GM can start moving the XLR, but with the V version @ $100k, I think the General is pushing the limits of what the market will bear. If the XLR was a hot seller, I'd be more inclined to be optimistic.

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Ralph

· #11 · Oct 10, 2005

Regular XLR's are 100K here and I see them around. The point is, GM needs the status back to be "Standard of the World" once again, and they won't get there with a cheap car. In the world of ultra-status and luxury, you get what you pay for. It is similar to Cadillac only making 3 regular XLR's per day. It keeps the numbers limited and this is good for status and keeping steep depreciation at bay. If you flood the market with cheap cars, there goes your value and reputation.

They need to make the Sixteen also to get back on top, much like Bugatti and what that brand does to boost VW's engineering reputation, and they are not cheap, but they still sell. They could charge 1 million per Sixteen and they would still sell. Obviously not everyone is going to be able to afford them, and that's just a fact of life, but they will regain Cadillac as a serious world-wide competitor if these cars are produced and are more exclusive.

The good thing about the XLR-V is that it will benefit the good name of Cadillac and help the division's image, but obviously not everyone will be able to buy one.

This is one way of looking at it.

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ahahnu

· #12 · Oct 10, 2005

As a V owner I can talk here. The XLR is a hot car, you just have to picture the competition. SL yes, new 6 series, and their AMG/M aftermarkets. The XLR needs the V to enhance the performance. The SL AMG is nasty, and the M6 is gonna be off the meter. The V is worth every extra penny over the regular CTS. (driven both, gone from one to the other and back) I thought they should take the LS6 in my car and charge that, then put it in the XLR. Give them really a run. This is a Cadillac, not a Pontiac. Its up to us to set the standard for American cars like they used to, not follow the Germans like we are. Oh yeah I forgot the rarity factor. I barely see another CTS-V. Its just as rare to see an XLR, just imagine the low production numbers, and the collectability value years to come, and enjoy now. Just treat yourself, don't you deserve it?

CVP33

· #13 · Oct 12, 2005

$100,000 cars are never purchased using reason. This is and always will be an emotional purchase. This car is entirely out of my league. Yes, I could afford it, but frankly if I was in the two seater market, and I will be in a year or two, I'd rather have a Z06. When GMS is available for the Z06 in roughly a year maybe two, I'll pick up one of these for $59,000. I can live with that. Although I can afford it, I'd almost instantly regret spending $100,000 on any car. Except maybe the Bugati Veyron. But that damned thing is $1.25 million. And no, I can't afford that.

CVP33

· #14 · Oct 12, 2005

Uh oh. Even the GM faithful are bawking at the pricing of the next V models.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20768

Ralph

· #15 · Oct 12, 2005

CVP33 said:
Uh oh. Even the GM faithful are bawking at the pricing of the next V models.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20768

People will complain, but they are not considering the long-term goal of the "V" cars. Cadillac is NOT and should NOT be about "Value Pricing." If Cadillac were about value pricing, then what is to distinguish it from a Buick? (compared to a Deville, for example) What would give it more status and recognition? That's right, price is a big factor in determining "exclusivity." If you want the name and technology, you have to pay for it and you get the "status" in the process. In the first post there he makes a good point about what you get for the money, and the fact it is 25K less than the AMG. Good bargain? Yes. If one is lucky enough to be able to buy one, others will know they have something special. That's the main goal for an ultra-status vehicle like the XLR-V, and being seen behind the wheel.

Thanks to the "V" series from Cadillac, it has already propelled Cadillac far above Lincoln and many others, and now Cadillac has a good shot at aiming for the top, and that means "Standard of the World" once again. THAT'S the reward.

Much like the Veyron, the goal will not be to sell these on a mass scale. They will sell a limited number of them to allow Cadillac to get the recognition they need to get back on top.

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CVP33

· #16 · Oct 12, 2005

It's not enough to move the price up. GM must move the content up. I have no issue right now with the features GM is offering. Magnetic Selective Ride suspension, Night Vision, Adaptive Cruise, GM has some very robust technology in our cars. But right now our packaging just sucks. Paint work, body seams, plastic quality and overall fit and finish needs to move up with the price.

Look at my post on the STS-V thread regarding the interior. My god the STS-V's interior looks positively austere when compared to Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti and Lexus. The radio portion of the center stack would be at home in the Cobalt or Malibu. Hardly the stuff of $77,000 and $100,000 dollar luxury automobiles. The GM faithful deserve better.

Ralph

· #17 · Oct 12, 2005

CVP33 said:
It's not enough to move the price up. GM must move the content up. I have no issue right now with the features GM is offering. Magnetic Selective Ride suspension, Night Vision, Adaptive Cruise, GM has some very robust technology in our cars. But right now our packaging just sucks. Paint work, body seams, plastic quality and overall fit and finish needs to move up with the price.

Look at my post on the STS-V thread regarding the interior. My god the STS-V's interior looks positively austere when compared to Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti and Lexus. The radio portion of the center stack would be at home in the Cobalt or Malibu. Hardly the stuff of $77,000 and $100,000 dollar luxury automobiles. The GM faithful deserve better.

I understand what you are saying, and we all know here that Cadillac may have a ways to go regarding a few issues. Cadillac still needs a few high-status, high priced vehicles to boost the image.

That said, I agree with you about the interiors of Lexus and MB. I think those two companies probably make the nicest looking and best quality interiors, but at the same time I can't find much fault with the new Cadillac interiors. Comparing to a BMW 5 or 7 series, for example, the BMW seems to be very cold, and not very welcoming. I like a splash of contrast for interiors, for example, beige leather with light colored wood. However, with specialty cars like the V's, the interiors have been deliberately blackened for the effect of performance to suit the personality of the vehicle.

Look to Corvette to see what they have done regarding pricing and interiors. It's clear that the extra money you pay for a new Corvette went into the engine and not so much the interior. They did improve it last year, but not drastically imo.

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CVP33

· #18 · Oct 12, 2005 (Edited)

Here's the XLR-V's interior. I'm just not getting it. Compare that to the SLK's.

Ralph

· #19 · Oct 12, 2005

CVP33 said:
Here's the XLR-V's interior. I'm just not getting it. Compare that to the SLK's.

Ya, I like the cinamon seats with the chrome contrast on the dash in the MB, but I just don't like dark "black lung" interiors to begin with. It's just a personal preference, but if I could own and drive a V I wouldn't care too much about the lack of color and chrome, etc.

Vrocks

· #20 · Oct 12, 2005

DG2 said:
Gentelman,

Remember, the CTS-V is $20,000 more then the base CTS. The BMW M5 is $40,000 plus more then the base 5 series. Same for the AMG class. $35-$40k more for the AMG SL500 orver the base model. You want the top perfromers you must be willing to pay. :thepan:

AznPrydeRegalRyde said:
So explain how your CTS-V is worth so much more then the CTS?

But the CTS-V is loaded with features so you have to compare it with a loaded 3.6L CTS.

Also, MSRP isn't what the cars sell for, at least not after a month or two. You can get a CTS-V for well under $50,000, the XLR can be purchased for right around $70,000, and I'm sure the XLR-V will sell in the low 90's some day.

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