My decision meter needle has definitely moved towards Ford with this announcement. Ford is making all the right moves - access to a stable, always available on-the-road charging system, Apple CarPlay, BlueCruise, et al.
Ford and Tesla partner on charging
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Everyone laughed at Aptera. Now the first, big, domino fell. NACS was the unofficial, defacto, standard in North America. Today, it just became that much more of a standard.
GM and Stellantis are in a tougher spot. Ford might not have an Ultium platform, but Ford is mass producing desirable EV and making moves that make it the leader of the big 3 auto brands.
CCS is basically dead at this point. Who really wants a worse experience with far less options?
GM and Stellantis are in a tougher spot. Ford might not have an Ultium platform, but Ford is mass producing desirable EV and making moves that make it the leader of the big 3 auto brands.
CCS is basically dead at this point. Who really wants a worse experience with far less options?
Wow. Maybe I should forget about the Silverado EV and get a Ford Lightning.Everyone laughed at Aptera. Now the first, big, domino fell. NACS was the unofficial, defacto, standard in North America. Today, it just became that much more of a standard.
GM and Stellantis are in a tougher spot. Ford might not have an Ultium platform, but Ford is mass producing desirable EV and making moves that make it the leader of the big 3 auto brands.
CCS is basically dead at this point. Who really wants a worse experience with far less options?
Mary, you screwed up not landing the Superchargers.
I made a similar thread here first but it got moved to another section.
Right now Super Chargers can't provide the Amps for many 400 or 800 Volt vehicles, Tesla still needs to roll out V4 Super Chargers... even then there still may be hiccups.
Have to see where this leads, it's still in the very early days. Also This wasn't for Free, Ford must have had to cough up a lot of money to get in.
Also Ford isn't dropping CCS Support it still will be able to use them. This is just expanding the number of Stations to include Tesla 12K + 10K and growing.
Right now Super Chargers can't provide the Amps for many 400 or 800 Volt vehicles, Tesla still needs to roll out V4 Super Chargers... even then there still may be hiccups.
Have to see where this leads, it's still in the very early days. Also This wasn't for Free, Ford must have had to cough up a lot of money to get in.
Also Ford isn't dropping CCS Support it still will be able to use them. This is just expanding the number of Stations to include Tesla 12K + 10K and growing.
The key point for me in this agreement, besides access to Tesla SC, is Ford building in native Tesla connector port. Will they be providing CCS once they switch over - I doubt so. They will definitely keep CCS support for current vehicles.
They don't have to read forums to get the information we have here. All they need to do is READ the communications they received from Cadillac.
I made a similar thread here first but it got moved to another section.
Right now Super Chargers can't provide the Amps for many 400 or 800 Volt vehicles, Tesla still needs to roll out V4 Super Chargers... even then there still may be hiccups.
Have to see where this leads, it's still in the very early days. Also This wasn't for Free, Ford must have had to cough up a lot of money to get in.
Also Ford isn't dropping CCS Support it still will be able to use them. This is just expanding the number of Stations to include Tesla 12K + 10K and growing.
So how much is Ford paying Tesla for this feature? Seems like another revenue stream for the big T.
Yeah, that last part is key. Very much so. Having both Tesla and CCS chargers to draw from reduces range anxiety by a huge amount.I made a similar thread here first but it got moved to another section.
Right now Super Chargers can't provide the Amps for many 400 or 800 Volt vehicles, Tesla still needs to roll out V4 Super Chargers... even then there still may be hiccups.
Have to see where this leads, it's still in the very early days. Also This wasn't for Free, Ford must have had to cough up a lot of money to get in.
Also Ford isn't dropping CCS Support it still will be able to use them. This is just expanding the number of Stations to include Tesla 12K + 10K and growing.
ball’s in your court GM
This is hugely significant and may up being the key tipping point in moving toward a single plug standard for North America.
Say what you want about Tesla cars, but the charging network is light years ahead of any other, and will remain so because no one has the interest or the capital to build a matching network. As a manufacturer, you have to buy into the winning solution if you don’t want to build your own. A viable charging network for distance driving is THE enabler for a manufacturers EV success and Ford has figured that out (the “bro culture” between Musk & Farley clearly helped enable this, something that could not have happened in the GM buttoned down culture).
A 2025/2026 Ford 2nd gen clean sheet EV platform with 2-3 years advancement over Ultium, an NCAS connector and full equal access to the supercharger network is clearly the better choice, especially if you ever leave town. And you get CarPlay too!
The next key step is probably up to Stellantis or H/K, not GM, who will fight it all the way. If just one of them joins in the Supercharger network, or even just adopts the NCAS plug, it’s all over. It will be a NCAS world. But GM will be the last to adopt because of their “my way or the highway” culture.
I for one look forward to the end of the end of the CCS frankenplug. It was OK for AC (J1772) but an abomination for D.C. Even the European Mennekes CCS-2 is better than the CCS-1.
Exciting times!
Say what you want about Tesla cars, but the charging network is light years ahead of any other, and will remain so because no one has the interest or the capital to build a matching network. As a manufacturer, you have to buy into the winning solution if you don’t want to build your own. A viable charging network for distance driving is THE enabler for a manufacturers EV success and Ford has figured that out (the “bro culture” between Musk & Farley clearly helped enable this, something that could not have happened in the GM buttoned down culture).
A 2025/2026 Ford 2nd gen clean sheet EV platform with 2-3 years advancement over Ultium, an NCAS connector and full equal access to the supercharger network is clearly the better choice, especially if you ever leave town. And you get CarPlay too!
The next key step is probably up to Stellantis or H/K, not GM, who will fight it all the way. If just one of them joins in the Supercharger network, or even just adopts the NCAS plug, it’s all over. It will be a NCAS world. But GM will be the last to adopt because of their “my way or the highway” culture.
I for one look forward to the end of the end of the CCS frankenplug. It was OK for AC (J1772) but an abomination for D.C. Even the European Mennekes CCS-2 is better than the CCS-1.
Exciting times!
There is no doubt Ford will be paying significant sums to buy into the continuing expansion of Supercharger network. But I also believe Tesla sees the growth of a universal charging network/standard as critical for the success of the entire EV industry and therefore will see Ford more as an enabling partner than a gouging opportunity.So how much is Ford paying Tesla for this feature? Seems like another revenue stream for the big T.
Seems like a hedge against the wider CCS rollout, expected CCS reliability improvements, and Tesla opening their network. We'll have to see how it plays out in 2 years.
Wonder if it changes Tesla's plan of opening their network.
Also it feels like this is theoretically more of a big deal than it might be practically. DC fast charging is generally a very small percentage of charging that the general user will use. And then the only place where this will be beneficial are areas where there is low CCS availability and Superchargers with low utilization. But still, I suppose more accessible options is always better.
Wonder if it changes Tesla's plan of opening their network.
Also it feels like this is theoretically more of a big deal than it might be practically. DC fast charging is generally a very small percentage of charging that the general user will use. And then the only place where this will be beneficial are areas where there is low CCS availability and Superchargers with low utilization. But still, I suppose more accessible options is always better.
If I were buying a Tesla or had one I’d be double pissed. They’re building fast but the exclusive charging network is dying on multiple fronts, Tesla is adding CCS plugs and Ford is adding NACS plugs. The biggest asset of a Tesla, the charging network, will soon be available to all.
Wonder how long before some kind of deal is worked out that develops an adopter that allows access to Superchargers without waiting for Tesla charger modifications.
Wonder how long before some kind of deal is worked out that develops an adopter that allows access to Superchargers without waiting for Tesla charger modifications.
They actually existed before, but ended up getting network blacklisted. It'll happen easily in the future again.If I were buying a Tesla or had one I’d be double pissed. They’re building fast but the exclusive charging network is dying on multiple fronts, Tesla is adding CCS plugs and Ford is adding NACS plugs. The biggest asset of a Tesla, the charging network, will soon be available to all.
Wonder how long before some kind of deal is worked out that develops an adopter that allows access to Superchargers without waiting for Tesla charger modifications.
It's quite amusing though to believe charging is any sort of issue realistically.
If anti eEV propaganda has done anything, some people have ended up with deep seeded range anxiety and haven't even driven / owned one yet.
As I await my LYRIQ, I admit to a bit of range anxiety, the route between DFW and Little Rock has enough chargers but if I arrive at one and it’s inoperative, I will be in trouble. For a few days the NEVI chargers planned on this route appeared on plugshare, making me think they would be operational before my LYRIQ, but they’ve disappeared again. Not sure why.They actually existed before, but ended up getting network blacklisted. It'll happen easily in the future again.
It's quite amusing though to believe charging is any sort of issue realistically.
If anti eEV propaganda has done anything, some people have ended up with deep seeded range anxiety and haven't even driven / owned one yet.
There are Tesla Superchargers in Texarkana, which is the perfect spot for a backup in case one of the chargers isn’t working, but no sign of it converting. If someone did come out with an acceptable plug adapter, it would be a worthwhile investment for me.
I don’t think Tesla owners have anything to worry about. They knew this was coming all along. CCS was never showing itself as a truly viable alternative.
The fact is that the only one who makes any money on charging is Tesla, and the only profitable company making EV’s in North America is Tesla. There was never a CCS advocate that would rise to the level of dedication that Tesla has.
Based on the Twitter Spaces chat between Musk and Farley; existing Ford EV owners will be able to purchase an adapter for their CCS car to use NACS.
Go on fastcharger.info and look at the new stations coming online. Now go on supercharge.info and look at the stations coming online. The entire collective CCS industry is still (in mid 2023) only installing a small fraction of the amount of stations Tesla is installing everyday. Then if you look closer at the CCS data - the charge speeds are very disappointing. If you look at 250kW+ CCS installs vs. Tesla Supercharger installs (250kW); Tesla is installing something like 37x more Superchargers than the entire CCS industry can manufacture.
The fact is that the only one who makes any money on charging is Tesla, and the only profitable company making EV’s in North America is Tesla. There was never a CCS advocate that would rise to the level of dedication that Tesla has.
Based on the Twitter Spaces chat between Musk and Farley; existing Ford EV owners will be able to purchase an adapter for their CCS car to use NACS.
Go on fastcharger.info and look at the new stations coming online. Now go on supercharge.info and look at the stations coming online. The entire collective CCS industry is still (in mid 2023) only installing a small fraction of the amount of stations Tesla is installing everyday. Then if you look closer at the CCS data - the charge speeds are very disappointing. If you look at 250kW+ CCS installs vs. Tesla Supercharger installs (250kW); Tesla is installing something like 37x more Superchargers than the entire CCS industry can manufacture.
If I were buying a Tesla or had one I’d be double pissed. They’re building fast but the exclusive charging network is dying on multiple fronts, Tesla is adding CCS plugs and Ford is adding NACS plugs. The biggest asset of a Tesla, the charging network, will soon be available to all.
Wonder how long before some kind of deal is worked out that develops an adopter that allows access to Superchargers without waiting for Tesla charger modifications.
Question. Does Tesla do anything wrong?I don’t think Tesla owners have anything to worry about. They knew this was coming all along. CCS was never showing itself as a truly viable alternative.
The fact is that the only one who makes any money on charging is Tesla, and the only profitable company making EV’s in North America is Tesla. There was never a CCS advocate that would rise to the level of dedication that Tesla has.
Based on the Twitter Spaces chat between Musk and Farley; existing Ford EV owners will be able to purchase an adapter for their CCS car to use NACS.
Go on fastcharger.info and look at the new stations coming online. Now go on supercharge.info and look at the stations coming online. The entire collective CCS industry is still (in mid 2023) only installing a small fraction of the amount of stations Tesla is installing everyday. Then if you look closer at the CCS data - the charge speeds are very disappointing. If you look at 250kW+ CCS installs vs. Tesla Supercharger installs (250kW); Tesla is installing something like 37x more Superchargers than the entire CCS industry can manufacture.
The charger differences will get resolved in the next decade I suspect, but if the Betamax/VHS situation proved anything, the best doesn’t always win.
Im just hoping for an adopter that will give me access if I need it.
Tesla continues to also become the Exxon of the future. There was no reason for Tesla to ignore the revenue stream that other brands could provide.
Time will tell I guess. So many forces at play, it will be an interesting next 10 years.Tesla continues to also become the Exxon of the future. There was no reason for Tesla to ignore the revenue stream that other brands could provide.
Does the NEVI plan allow for NACS plugs or CCS only?
I haven't perused TMC yet to gauge owners sentiment but as a Tesla owner, I see only positives for this. The only argument I could imagine would be the whole, "waiting in line" excuse. Does that excuse hold water when a Tesla uses a CCS charger now? If not, why not? The fact that Tesla owners bought and paid for the SpC network, therefore it should be a closed network is garbage. From the beginning, it was always touted as "not a walled garden". I fully expected it and encouraged it primarily as it was part of the mission.If I were buying a Tesla or had one I’d be double pissed. They’re building fast but the exclusive charging network is dying on multiple fronts, Tesla is adding CCS plugs and Ford is adding NACS plugs. The biggest asset of a Tesla, the charging network, will soon be available to all.
Wonder how long before some kind of deal is worked out that develops an adopter that allows access to Superchargers without waiting for Tesla charger modifications.
So now that it is open to Ford owners that will be subsidizing the costs, the private ownership angle is moot. The advantages are:
- Faster build-out due to increased revenue
- Larger network than might otherwise be
- For people like me that are hesitant to buy a CCS only EV, I now have options outside the Tesla ecosystem
- Provides a much improved long distance experience for non-Tesla's and chips away at the well deserved FUD media promotes for road trips in an EV
I don't see any logical argument that this wasn't the best outcome in the charging standards discussion. Anybody not so enamored with tribalism will agree that the NACS is the better solution. Claiming that it's too late, that ship has sailed so we are just going to accept the inferior CCS protocol as the future was BS. We are in the infancy of the rEVolution with maybe 5% of new cars in NA being BEV's. And of those 5%, 4% were already using the NACS plug so disrupting 1% of the TAM is pretty insignificant. We also can put to bed the technical roadblock that switching for a large legacy automaker was valid.
As for the "waiting in line" crap, let's see how it goes before throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I'm guessing maybe a million Tesla's currently on the road in North America. By 2025, Ford may have 100,000? By then, Tesla will have 2 million so it only adds 5% to the infrastructure.
I wonder if Musk would throttle down the number of manufacturers that may want in down the road depending on the logistics. I don't ever expect GM to sign up for it but Stellantis, HK and VW might. I really thought Toyota would be the first though but smart move by Farley. Ford now has overnight demolished the biggest obstacle for buying a Ford Model E product. Well played Jim.
Being a 2 Tesla owner and waiting on a Lyriq, I have very mixed thoughts on this. Granted the EA, EVGO, etc folks lack the infrastructure and reliability of Tesla. If and when I get my Lyriq, one of the Tesla's will be gone. But I also drive a 900 miles RT drive every 5-6 weeks and its a breeze in my Tesla's. I check the route in person for CCS DCFC chargers and see two things
1. Not even 1/10 the chargers and stalls, but I think I can make it.
2. All are 25% to 50% higher in cost to rapid charge. Ouch.
As a Tesla owner, if I didn't go to another car, I would be very annoyed. The Tesla chargers are 50% to 80% occupied on average, a few occasionally have "short wait" showing on screen, and other brands will clog up the SuperChargers. It will happen, Tesla won't build more fast enough and stay ahead, at least on my route due to highway rest stop space limits.
BTW, Tesla charges more for CCS via the Magic Dock. A Tesla vehicle may pay .36 kwh but CCS vehicles pay .49 kwh. Wonder if Ford will pay this too when the adapter is available?
If you are a Ford owner, or plan to be one, its great news.
A Tesla exclusive owner, its not good news.
A Tesla owner, and a GM owner which I may soon be, it's a tough one to get my head around.
Or, maybe just maybe, it kicks EA, EVGO and others in the butt and says get your you know what together cuz the competition just ratcheted it up a few notches. And forces them to not only build more, be more reliable, maybe a bit more price competitive too. Time will tell.
1. Not even 1/10 the chargers and stalls, but I think I can make it.
2. All are 25% to 50% higher in cost to rapid charge. Ouch.
As a Tesla owner, if I didn't go to another car, I would be very annoyed. The Tesla chargers are 50% to 80% occupied on average, a few occasionally have "short wait" showing on screen, and other brands will clog up the SuperChargers. It will happen, Tesla won't build more fast enough and stay ahead, at least on my route due to highway rest stop space limits.
BTW, Tesla charges more for CCS via the Magic Dock. A Tesla vehicle may pay .36 kwh but CCS vehicles pay .49 kwh. Wonder if Ford will pay this too when the adapter is available?
If you are a Ford owner, or plan to be one, its great news.
A Tesla exclusive owner, its not good news.
A Tesla owner, and a GM owner which I may soon be, it's a tough one to get my head around.
Or, maybe just maybe, it kicks EA, EVGO and others in the butt and says get your you know what together cuz the competition just ratcheted it up a few notches. And forces them to not only build more, be more reliable, maybe a bit more price competitive too. Time will tell.
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