[sd3433]

Hello, This is my 1st Post, sorry for my english first of all, im from Europe/Germany.

I have bought a ATS-V from 2017 with defective/faulty engine. The crankshaft had a heavy rod knock. I got the car with completely dismantled engine and have never assembled an LF4 engine before.
Installed new crankshaft, connecting rods, bearings, oil cooler, Head gaskets, piston Rings, valve seals and and..

Now im getting directly after start really ugly white smoke from exhaust.. thought First it can be remains in exhaust, but after Test drive with Bad throttle response + misfires i have stopped, cannot Drive and Start anymore because the smoke is so much that neighboors Are angry, cannot make a test run in my Garage because it’s within 30 seconds full with smoke 😬 there is no fault at the PCM/ECM, the engine runs on idle Fine w/o noises and w/o misfire .. the smoke continues Many minutes after stoping engine 🤷‍♂️

what can be my mistake ? A wrong "mis"mixed/matched line or Hose ? I assume a Bad fuel injector? There Are no Parts for that engine in Europe so i cannot change Parts so easy and quick.

Have builded up Many German Engines AMG/M5 M6 , v6,v8,v10,v12 or LS1,LS2,LS7,LS9 , 5.7/6.1/6.4 hemi srt but the intercooling and piping system of the LF4 is new area for me , because i didnt dismantled it..


Thanks in advance for all advises and tips.

 

[Tripwire]

hallo willkommen in unser club, ich hat gewohne ein paar jahren in trier... mein erster gedanke ist falsches ketten error ?

steve

 

[sd3433]

hallo willkommen in unser club, ich hat gewohne ein paar jahren in trier... mein erster gedanke ist falsches ketten error ?

steve

oh because of military causes?

wrong timing wouldnt cause that smoke and would Never run so quiet at idle.. my assumes are wrong assembled hoses or Bad fuel injectors , have to Order them from rockauto but have to Wait 3-4 days and wont waste money for nothing 😖

 

[Tripwire]

Yes live in Bitburg my wife from Trier, I don't know this engine so i keep my Klappe closed 😁

 

[tta1456]

White smoke, not bluish smoke that smells like oil? How's the coolant level? Is it holding steady or dropping?

White smoke can mean a stuck open injector or it is ingesting coolant, which you should be able to see on the spark plugs. If there's evidence of coolant ingestion on the spark plugs, is it one cylinder or all cylinders?

Will the cooling system hold 20psi of pressure with a pressure tester? If you remove the cap from the coolant reservoir and remove the spark plugs and pressurize each cylinder with the valves closed with 100-150psi of air, do you get any air bubbles out of the coolant reservoir?

You said you received the car with the engine disassembled... Any chance you might have accidentally connected one of the smaller coolant hoses to one of the ports on the intake manifold, or connected a small vacuum line to the cooling system?

Another possibility is the intercooler is somehow leaking coolant into the intake manifold. Did you remove the coolant manifold or intercooler cores from the upper intake manifold and possibly damage an o-ring? It doesn't take much coolant getting into the cylinders to make a huge smoke cloud.

There's quite a few hoses and lines on these engines, and receiving the car with the engine out and in pieces certainly doesn't make the job of putting it back together any easier.

Post some pictures of everything on and around the intake and valve covers with the plastic intake cover off (you can leave the vacuum tank and solenoids installed.) Maybe one of us can spot a hose connected incorrectly.

 

[sd3433]

 

[tta1456]

I don't see anything connected wrong in your pictures, but I do see that the coolant level in the surge tank is low. The upper portion with the pressurized screw cap should be full all the way to the top, and the lower portion of the tank that is filled via the small flip cap should be filled half way to the mark on the side.

It sounds like you've built enough engines to know, but if you suspect a coolant leak into the engine be careful you don't hydrolock the engine trying to start it again.

Heavy white smoke without an burning oil smell still makes me think the engine is ingesting coolant from somewhere. Heavy white smoke with a strong fuel smell could mean an injector stuck open.

Since your pictures look OK, at this point I'd both pressure test and vacuum test the cooling system, and then pull the spark plugs, inspect them for coolant contamination, and presssurize the cylinders and look for a leak into the cooling system.

If the cooling system checks out maybe it is pulling coolant into the engine from an intercooler system leak inside the upper intake manifold. Unfortunately there's no reservoir for the intercooler on these cars to see what the fluid level is.

If you remove the turbo to upper intake manifold piping, are the pipes clean inside or do they have heavy oil residue inside them? While the pipes are off, how is the the inside of the upper intake-- any oil or coolant residue?

I was also thinking of the possibility that the drain holes in the muffler are plugged and somehow the muffler got filled with water or other contaminants that are cooking off when the exhaust gets hot, but since you said the engine is misfiring that points to another problem.

Another possibility which I've seen exactly once is a failed master cylinder and brake booster causing a heavy smoke issue-- the master cylinder and booster both had a leak. The booster was sucking fluid into it via the pushrod from a leak at the bore of the master cylinder. The owner kept topping up the brake fluid, and once there was enough fluid inside the booster the engine started sucking the brake fluid in via the vacuum line to the booster. This created quite a smoke show out the tailpipes. (I've seen a similar epic smoke show with a failed transmission vacuum modulator that was letting the engine suck in transmission fluid, but that isn't a possibility on these cars.)

Trying to think what else could cause the issues you're having...

 

[tinman]

White smoke, if it is actually coolant, should have an acrid smell, a strong acidic smell that is most definitely noticeable.

 

[sd3433]

It smells for me more like exhaust Gas / emission.. have many Cars from customers to handle, cannot concentrate on my own V 😖

 

[tta1456]

Interesting.

Usually when an injector has an issue and is dumping fuel you get blackish smoke out the exhaust from being too rich... but it can be whitish gray smoke, especially with a DI engine, but there's usually a strong fuel smell out the tailpipe. If it's an injector partially clogged or stuck partially closed and running lean, often you get a lean misfire and a gas smell out the exhaust from the misfire but no smoke.

If you want to make sure it's not something contaminated in the vacuum accessories, evap, or PCV making it into the engine and causing the smoke, disconnect those and cap them off.

Main PCV hose runs from the front of the driver's side valve cover to the center front of the lower intake manifold... remove that line and cap both ends.

Evap hose is the short "jumper" nylon line in shiny heat shielding that runs from the steel line at the passenger rear of the intake manifold to the solenoid at the passenger front of the intake manifold... disconnect it at the solenoid and cap the solenoid.

Only engine vacuum accessories connected to the intake are the brake booster and active motor mounts, and if I remember correctly that vacuum line is connected at the driver's side rear of the lower intake manifold (and also has a smaller line that runs up front to the electric auxiliary vacuum pump at the front of the engine on the passenger side near the water pump.) Disconnect that main vacuum line at the lower intake, cap the port on the intake, and pull the fuse or relay for the auxiliary vacuum pump so it doesn't run.

If it still smokes with all the vacuum lines capped off that rules out something getting pulled in from any of the vacuum lines.

Any signs of contamination on the spark plugs, and do you have a way to command a cylinder balance test to see if there's a possible injector issue or another issue with one or more cylinders?

Another question... how long was the car sitting disassembled, and any chance the fuel could have been contaminated while it was sitting?

 

[sd3433]

Interesting.

Usually when an injector has an issue and is dumping fuel you get blackish smoke out the exhaust from being too rich. If it's an injector running lean, often you get a lean misfire and a gas smell out the exhaust from the misfire but no smoke.

If you want to make sure it's not something contaminated in the vacuum, evap, or PCV making it into the engine and causing the smoke, disconnect those and cap them off.

Main PCV hose runs from the front of the driver's side valve cover to the center front of the lower intake manifold... remove that line and cap both ends.

Evap hose is the short "jumper" nylon line in shiny heat shielding that runs from the steel line at the passenger rear of the intake manifold to the solenoid at the passenger front of the intake manifold... disconnect it at the solenoid and cap the solenoid.

Only engine vacuum accessories connected to the intake are the brake booster and active motor mounts, and if I remember correctly that vacuum line is connected at the driver's side rear of the lower intake manifold (and also has a smaller line that runs up front to the electric auxiliary vacuum pump at the front of the engine on the passenger side near the water pump.) Disconnect that main vacuum line at the lower intake, cap the port on the intake, and pull the fuse for the auxiliary vacuum pump so it doesn't run.

If it still smokes with all the vacuum lines capped off that rules out something getting pulled in from any of the vacuum lines.

Any signs of contamination on the spark plugs, and do you have a way to command a cylinder balance test to see if there's a possible injector issue or another issue with one or more cylinders?

Another question... how long was the car sitting disassembled, and any chance the fuel could have been contaminated while it was sitting?

will try all on saturday then report, Thanks a lot for your efforts

 

[bleu18v]

Guys, do these turbos have coolant lines running through them? IIRC someone had a leaking turbo seal go on their STI producing white smoke

 

[sd3433]

So i have now looked on Pistons with cam.. there is a oil puddle.. have inserted new Piston rings ( hastings 2c4114 ) .. so now it can only be the turbochargers am i Right ?

 

[Submariner409]

The second compression ring is a tapered oil scraper and must be installed with the index mark facing up or it will act as an oil pump into the combustion chamber.

 

[sd3433]

The second compression ring is a tapered oil scraper and must be installed with the index mark facing up or it will act as an oil pump into the combustion chamber.

yeah they Are correct mounted

 

[tta1456]

Guys, do these turbos have coolant lines running through them? IIRC someone had a leaking turbo seal go on their STI producing white smoke

It's possible, but the turbo center section would have to be cracked to allow coolant to leak into the bearing cartridge and get to the compressor or turbine housing. The coolant passages are divorced from the bearing cartridge and oil passages.

So i have now looked on Pistons with cam.. there is a oil puddle.. have inserted new Piston rings ( hastings 2c4114 ) .. so now it can only be the turbochargers am i Right ?

The giant oil puddle on top of the piston isn't a good sign.

Is the oil just on one piston or all of them?

If the oil is only in cylinder #2, you may have a PCV issue or crankcase pressure issue that's forcing oil into the main PCV line, since the main PCV line between the driver's valve cover and center of the lower intake manifold favors dumping most of the crankcase vapors into the intake runner of cylinder #2 (driver's side front of engine.)

Pull the charge pipes connecting the turbos to the intake manifold and see if there's heavy oil residue in the charge pipes or in the upper intake. If so, you probably have a turbo issue or crankcase pressure / blowby issue (excess crankcase pressure will also force vapors into the intake pipes leading to each turbo compressor inlet via the 2x PCV lines.) Could also be a turbo with a oil bad seal (or obstructed oil drain) that is pumping oil into the compressor side of the turbo and then up into the intake and then into the engine.

If the charge pipes and upper intake are dry and free of oil residue, it's probably a piston ring or valve guide / valve seal issue. Puddles of oil on top of the piston after the engine sits are usually a sign of a valve guide or valve seal problem, bad rings typically will only suck oil and smoke while the engine is running and not leave a puddle on top of the piston after it's shut off and sitting for a while.

Next steps I'd do is pull the charge pipes and look for oil residue in them, the turbo compressor outlets, and in the upper intake. If there's no oil contamination in any of those the issue is probably probably valve seals, and I'd pull the upper intake and look at the intake valves and see if oil is running down the valve stems onto the backs of the valves.

I would suspect it's a valve guide or seal issue (or the very worst case, a cracked head) as with the design of this intake manifold there would have to be a LOT of oil going through the intake manifold to get past the intercooler cores, climb up the 2.5" or so to get over the top of and down the throttle body, and then get to the cylinder to puddle on top of the piston.

Another possibility, but I figured you would have mentioned it... were any of the spark plug tubes filled with oil when you removed the coils and spark plugs? It is possible to have a bad or damaged valve cover to spark plug tube seal that fills up the spark plug tube in the head with oil, and then if the sparkplug is loose or damaged that oil can migrate into the combustion chamber.

 

[sd3433]

It's possible, but the turbo center section would have to be cracked to allow coolant to leak into the bearing cartridge and get to the compressor or turbine housing. The coolant passages are divorced from the bearing cartridge and oil passages.




The giant oil puddle on top of the piston isn't a good sign.

Is the oil just on one piston or all of them?

If the oil is only in cylinder #2, you may have a PCV issue or crankcase pressure issue that's forcing oil into the main PCV line, since the main PCV line between the driver's valve cover and center of the lower intake manifold favors dumping most of the crankcase vapors into the intake runner of cylinder #2 (driver's side front of engine.)

Pull the charge pipes connecting the turbos to the intake manifold and see if there's heavy oil residue in the charge pipes or in the upper intake. If so, you probably have a turbo issue or crankcase pressure / blowby issue (excess crankcase pressure will also force vapors into the intake pipes leading to each turbo compressor inlet via the 2x PCV lines.) Could also be a turbo with a oil bad seal (or obstructed oil drain) that is pumping oil into the compressor side of the turbo and then up into the intake and then into the engine.

If the charge pipes and upper intake are dry and free of oil residue, it's probably a piston ring or valve guide / valve seal issue. Puddles of oil on top of the piston after the engine sits are usually a sign of a valve guide or valve seal problem, bad rings typically will only suck oil and smoke while the engine is running and not leave a puddle on top of the piston after it's shut off and sitting for a while.

Next steps I'd do is pull the charge pipes and look for oil residue in them, the turbo compressor outlets, and in the upper intake. If there's no oil contamination in any of those the issue is probably probably valve seals, and I'd pull the upper intake and look at the intake valves and see if oil is running down the valve stems onto the backs of the valves.

I would suspect it's a valve guide or seal issue (or the very worst case, a cracked head) as with the design of this intake manifold there would have to be a LOT of oil going through the intake manifold to get past the intercooler cores, climb up the 2.5" or so to get over the top of and down the throttle body, and then get to the cylinder to puddle on top of the piston.

Another possibility, but I figured you would have mentioned it... were any of the spark plug tubes filled with oil when you removed the coils and spark plugs? It is possible to have a bad or damaged valve cover to spark plug tube seal that fills up the spark plug tube in the head with oil, and then if the sparkplug is loose or damaged that oil can migrate into the combustion chamber.

have looked on 1,3,5 all were with oil …valve cover seals Are new, if it would be a valve seal then the cylinder would be with oil and Not all, impossible that all valve seals Are Leaking , am i Right?

 

[tta1456]

So only 1, 3, and 5 had oil in them and 2, 4, and 6 were dry, or did you only use the borescope in cylinders 1, 3, and 5 so far?

3 cylinders on one bank having oil in them would make me think it's a possible turbo oil seal or turbo oil drainback issue sending oil into the intake and then into all cylinders, and if that's the case the charge pipe from the turbo to the intake should be soaked in oil and there should be oil puddles inside the upper intake if you look inside where the charge pipes would bolt to.

There have been a handful of reports of cracked or loose valve guides on these engines which can cause a ticking noise and an oil leak into the combustion chamber and exhaust ports, but I seriously doubt you have 3+ cylinders that all had valve guides crack or come loose at the same time.

It's possible, but rare, you have valve seal issues on multiple cylinders. I worked on an engine many years back that had a smoke issue and oil consumption problem and all 8 sparkplugs were oil contaminated... turns out someone installed the incorrect valve seals. The seals were tight to the guide but for a larger diameter valve stem so they were loose on the valve stem and didn't seal to the valve. Lots of smoke on startup and rapid oil consumption and smoke if you drove it.

Any way to use a bit of shop rag on a grabber tool to dip into the fluid on top of the piston and then check if it's gas or oil? There's still the possibility of a stuck injector, and maybe that's actually gas puddled on top of the piston. I'm not sure of the injector wiring harness layout on these cars, but maybe the wiring for bank for 1/3/5 got pinched or a pin in a connector got bent during reassembly and the entire bank is now shorted and hanging open? If that was the case though I'd expect codes for circuit open or circuit shorted for injectors 1/3/5 along with the misfire codes you said the car had.

 

[sd3433]

I Used the borescope only on Passenger Side, in my Opinion it’s a Turbocharger Problem.

i havent expected an oil Problem because it was more a White Gas instead of Blue.. i couldnt 100% define the odor , it didnt smell like burned oil 🤷‍♂️

As i mentioned we have overhauled Many engines: if an engine has a broken timing chain for Example you can enclose what could be there damaged: valves, cam sprocket, camshaft, Rocker arm and other related Parts .

But a rod knock is guilful.. Maybe the Metal shaves have now destroyed the Charger/s, optical i couldnt See anything there was Not a radial or axial Clearance.
And normaly i change at a rod Knock the affected connecting Rod, crankshaft, oil pump, oil cooler and all is Good , i have a special machine for flushing the Parts to clean the holes and Lines … nevertheless i will Check again the Valve Seals , will let overhaul the Chargers ( it’s impossible to get new Chargers for the car Here ) and it’s really expensive to Import them from the USA.. im actually at the Point that the Costs Are no longer an issue..

you Are lucky there : for Example an iPhone is cheaper, we Pay for 1 galone Gas fuel = 6.8$ ( 1 month ago 7.5-8$ ) , 1 ngk spark Plug you can buy for 2-2.5$ There, Here you Pay for it 9-18$

 

[tta1456]

If it's a bad turbo shaft seal or blocked turbo drain causing an oil leak into the compressor housing and then sending the oil up into the intake, I would expect to find oil in all 6 cylinders since the intake on these engines is a common plenum feeding all 6 cylinders, and there should be lots of oil residue in the charge pipes and upper intake.

Sometimes odd things happen though and the failure point is not what the symptoms would indicate or be where you expected.

Let us know what you find in the driver's side cylinders and if there's oil in the upper intake.