Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
2004 xlr
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I put in a new battery and went through the steps to reinitialize the windows as
outlined in the owners manual. If you raise the window with the door closed using
the express method, the glass hits the top and then lowers about 3/4 of the way
down. You can raise the window by holding the button and it stays up, but then it
doesn't index and you can't open the door without lowering the window.
I've searched online and the manual but can't find anything else to try.
Any help would be appreciated.
 

·
Registered
'02 ETC CE, '04 CTS-V, '04 XLR, '13 XTS Platinum
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Start by disconnecting the negative battery cable and waiting thirty seconds before re-connecting it, then re-index the windows. Make sure you raise/lower them by holding the window switch for the entire duration, not using the "express up/down" feature. If you still have trouble, try the passenger side to isolate the problem to one door memory module or something common to both. Don't forget to post back so others can learn from your experience.

CC
 

·
Registered
2004 xlr
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Tried disconnecting negative terminal as noted above. No change. And it is both doors. Neither window will index and allow the door to open. And the express up/down is not working on the passenger window.
As noted before the driver window will express up but then drop down about 3/4 of the way.
I have not driven the car but a few miles since installing the new battery. Don't know if that matters.
 

·
Registered
'02 ETC CE, '04 CTS-V, '04 XLR, '13 XTS Platinum
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
When you operated the passenger window, did you use the driver's side controls, the passenger side door controls, or both? This is important.

Also, how long ago did you install the new battery?

Do all switches --windows, outside mirror positioning, door open, (interior and exterior) and door lock function on both doors? (With the exception of the normalization/indexing issue, obviously.)
 

·
Registered
2004 xlr
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
OK - I used both door controls. Now the passenger window will express down, but not up. Also now the passenger window will index down when you open the door, but it will not index back up closed when you shut the door. You have to use the up button to shut the window tight. ( I'm not sure this changed or maybe I didn't check it that closely before).
I bought this 2004 XLR about 3 months ago. It had a weak battery so I replaced it with a red top optima the first of December. Last week the new battery was dead so I took the battery back and got a new replacement and installed it last weekend. That's when the trouble started.
The mirror, door locks etc controls all seem to be working OK.
 

·
Registered
'02 ETC CE, '04 CTS-V, '04 XLR, '13 XTS Platinum
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
First off, your best insurance for keeping your XLR in top condition is a healthy battery. The XLR draws power 24/7. If allowed to sit idle for two or three weeks, the battery will be discharged. If you know the car is going to sit for more than a week, connect it to a Battery Tender. With the crappy weather here in the NE, mine is plugged in as I write.

http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/brands/battery-tender/BT-021-0128.html It pays to shop around for the best deal, but these work great. I've parked my car for fifteen months using it and it fired right up. This isn't the same as a trickle charger. It pulses the battery and prevents sulfur build-up on the plates. Once the plates are fouled, battery life diminishes greatly.

The reason your passenger side window is indexing down but not indexing up when the door closed position is enabled is the upper index value hasn't been stored in memory in the Passenger Door Module (PDM.)

Start from scratch and try one more time thusly:

1. Disconnect the negative and positive battery leads and wait five minutes before re-connecting them. Some people connect both (disconnected) leads together, but I'm not a fan of this.
2. With the battery connected, start the engine and with the driver's side door closed, re-index the driver's side window. Make sure you hold the switch for five seconds in the full down and up position after the window stops moving. Half a second is sufficient, but five seconds makes sure. Holding it more than thirty seconds sets an over current flag. You don't want to do that.
3. Repeat with the passenger side window.
4. Test the express up/down functions of each side.
5. Open each door and verify the window drops enough to clear the upper seal.
6. Close each door and verify the windows raise to the fully indexed position within the upper seal channel.

If you're still having trouble with one or both windows and you're sure the battery voltage is nominal, (this is why you want to perform this with the engine running) report back with the exact symptoms for each door/window.

CC
 

·
Registered
2004 xlr
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Followed above procedure. The passenger side window is now operating as it should - express up & down and indexing when door is opened & closed.
The drivers door is still the same. Express up - the window hits the top, but immediately (instantly) drops back down about 3/4 of the way and stops. You can hold the up button and window will go up and stay up, but it will not index for the door to open. You have to lower with the down button and then open the door.
I definitely will be getting a tender asap.
And I do appreciate your efforts to help me with this.
 

·
Registered
'02 ETC CE, '04 CTS-V, '04 XLR, '13 XTS Platinum
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
The windows have two functions to ensure they move to the correct position. Each window's position values are stored in their respective door module. Your Passenger Door Module (PDM) appears to be working. The Driver Door Module (DDM) is not storing the correct position value for whatever reason. Knowing how the windows are supposed to operate is the key to diagnosing a problem when they aren't.

The first window function is Normalization. The upper/top window travel limit is called the Zero Position. The DDM and PDM figure out the actual window position by comparing the positional feedback from the window motor to the Zero Position. Determining the Zero Position is the reason you raise the window to its fully-raised position and hold the switch to commit the position to the module in each door. If the window is being raised, and it stalls for any reason before it reaches the Zero Position, (like if your head gets in the way) that stalled position becomes the new Zero Position. This is called the Anti-Trap feature. Also, if power is lost from the battery and the door is open, the index position is erased and the position of the window at the time of power-up becomes the new Zero Position. The next time you open the door, it will index down (approx. 4 mm.)

Indexing is the other window function. When a door OPEN command is sent by the interior or exterior door switches to the respective door module, the window will drop approx. 4mm to clear the upper seal. When a door CLOSE command is issued, the window raises approx. 4mm.

Based on the symptoms you've described, your problem appears to be centered around the Normalization function on the driver's door side. It is most likely the Driver Door Module or a switch-related fault, but I'm troubleshooting this fault remotely, so I'm not omniscient. A chaffed wire, fouled connector contact, or loose ground could also be responsible.

As in all things XLR, adequate battery voltage is key. If the battery isn't fully charged, really weird symptoms appear. If your battery is fine, then disregard. But if in doubt, ensure it's fully charged. This is a nice feature of the Battery Tender, it indicates the battery status when it's connected, and has a permanently mounted, quick-disconnect cable so it's easy to plug in whenever needed, though it does come with alligator clips. The permanent cable is the way to go. You just tie-wrap the charging cable to the battery in place, and plug the charger cable into it with the hood unlatched.

Let's get back to your problem. Perform the same procedure, but leave the battery disconnected for thirty minutes, before Normalizing the windows. This is excessively long, but it's worth a shot. When you re-index the driver's side, hold the switch for ten seconds in each direction. (This is twenty times longer than necessary, but plenty long for the Class 2 bus to recognize the command and store to the DDM memory.) Report back with the results.

CC
 

·
Registered
2004 xlr
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
This just gets curiouser and curiouser... I disconnected battery and waited 30+ minutes. The passenger window is still OK after re-indexing.
The driver's side would still not express up without reversing as before. I did note that the passenger window goes down further into the door when open - about 1/2 to 3/4 inch below the top of door panel while the driver door did not quite go below the door panel - maybe 1/16 inch above it and when raised by holding the button it seemed to go up further - even flexing the dash panel slightly like it was going too high.
But, at that point the indexing was working again - somewhat. I noticed by looking at the printing on the window that it did not index down the same each time. Sometimes it was only about 1/4 inch and sometimes about double that much. But, now the door would not open properly. It would take from 2 to 6 pushes of the door opener before the latch would fully release. It did not appear that the top weatherstrip was holding it - it was the latch.
At that time I went through the re-indexing again of the driver's window (without disconnecting the battery). After that it went back to no express up and no indexing. I tried it a few times and then the window up button went dead.
So , now the driver window is down and won't go up. But, the door is opening properly. It was at this point I decided to quit before something else died.
 

·
Registered
'02 ETC CE, '04 CTS-V, '04 XLR, '13 XTS Platinum
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
I don't know how handy you are with tools, but the operation of the door switch can be easily checked with a multi-meter with the door panel removed. I would also disconnect the DDM and inspect the connector. The DDM is located inside the door and houses the window motor. If you want to tear into it, let me know and I'll write up a procedure to get you in and out safely.

You will need plastic trim tools to do the job right. They don't scratch the panels and damage the plastic keepers easily. Trim tools are cheap and a worthwhile investment for any car you own. I've used these: http://www.eastwood.com/5-pc-trim-tool-set.html and these: http://www.eastwood.com/door-panel-and-trim-removal-set-of-3.html for years.

The XLR is a really poor car for DIYers, --even good ones with a GM Service Manual. You need to use a Tech 2 diagnostic tool to read the signals on the Class 2 bus. (This is way more complex than the type of scan tool found at an auto parts store.) The DDM can be individually scanned for a fault code (showing a stalled motor, etc.) The Tech 2 indicates switch status in the door and window switches when they're depressed. I ended up buying a Tech 2 online a few years ago just because goofy little problems like this were so time-consuming to troubleshoot; the whole car is operated by two Local Area Networks. It isn't like the old days when you pressed a switch that applied a ground to power up a window lift motor. There are nearly three dozen modules in the XLR communicating with one another.

Other than disconnecting the battery and re-trying to Normalize the driver's side again, you can make an appointment with your local dealer and have them scan the entire car. (The XLR was the first Cadillac that could be scanned with one comprehensive test, rather than having to individually scan the drivetrain, transmission, etc.) It shouldn't take more than ten minutes, so the labor rate shouldn't be too bad. It could be something as cheap as a switch or expensive as a module. Let me know how you wish to proceed.

CC
 

·
Registered
2004 xlr
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thank you for all the time you've put into this for me. I really do appreciate it. I've got a few vehicles, but they're all "old school". This is my first foray into a collector type computer car.
I will try it again in a day or so and see what happens. If it's still a problem, I'll bite the bullet and take it to a dealer.
Should I assume that all dealers are well trained on this car ( since there weren't that many sold and it's been 5 years since they stopped)?
I have ordered a Battery Tender so I hope the battery won't be an issue from now on.
Thanks again
 

·
Registered
'02 ETC CE, '04 CTS-V, '04 XLR, '13 XTS Platinum
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Depending on the level of complexity of the repair, an XLR-certified tech (this is a tech who has passed the XLR course, not the generic "certified" GM auto tech found at every dealership) is a must. They are getting tougher to find with the passage of time. The Corvette and XLR use the same window indexing arrangement, so this isn't a major problem to diagnose and repair.

You can get screwed on parts, so on the rare times I've taken my car in, I look at the recommended parts and buy them myself and let the dealer install them. Online GM parts sites sell them for the same price your dealer pays, then marks them up 40%. Just make sure the Service Manager (not the Service Writer) is cool with you supplying the parts. They won't warranty the parts, just the labor, which is fine.

A certified XLR is needed whenever you have a Folding Top problem; most other repairs are within a good tech's capabilities when using the proper diagnostic tools.

Keep us posted how this turns out please.

CC
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top