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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am a bit tired of reading articles classifying the CTS as an entry-level sedan. My wife and are fortunate to where we can purchase the automobiles we like, but are tired of large automobiles for many reasons, not in least being that here in Southern California parking spaces are becoming narrower and smaller as real estate prices are so artificially inflated. The CTS represents our lifestyle a great deal, and we prefer it over an STS or and other large luxury automobile. Besides, the CTS is leading the way for many in my generation (I am fifty years of age) and others, Toyota in particular, have noticed that we do not desire the same automobiles as our parents once drove--they are not practical in today's world. Please take a careful look at how Toyota's Lexus division carefully studied the market and redesigned the IS lineup:

http://www.lexus.com/models/is/index.html

More than anything they have caught onto what the CTS developed, and they are even considering a model with a V8. The IS will sell like hotcakes to my generation as we want agile, competent automobiles, not ocean liners. Lexus has figured this out, and an IS is not considered an entry-level--smart, very smart. All Cadillac need do is to listen carefully to us ("us" being any CTS enthusiast), as they started to do with the Corvette, and pursue a path of constant refinement that has helped make automobiles such as Porsche, such successes. I want my next CTS to have AWD. Are you listening Cadillac? You should be...
 

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I agree with the fact that the CTS is not an entry-level luxury sedan, its a sports sedan, thats why I doubt they would ever put AWD on it. And you have to realize, the CTS is the bottom of the barrel for Cadillac, so paddle shifting on the steering wheel and push-button start probably won't make their way to the CTS either. The CTS is more affordable because it doesn't have all the luxury options, thats why it is so popular because more people can afford it. I mean I'm 22 and I am driving a very nice Cadillac, most of my friends are incredibly jealous. But if Cadillac had put more luxury items on the CTS, chances are I couldn't have afforded it, and I'd still be driving my old 93' Deville. And if I remember right, heated seats are an option on the CTS.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
If Cadillac views the CTS as the "bottom of the barrel" then Cadillac deserves to lose to the competition, and has not heeded the market forces. I do not view the BMW lineup as being categorically better as one moves up the number series, I like a model for what it is. For example, the last series of 330 is a car I would easily own and I do not feel that a higher numbered BMW is better; of course, any M series speaks for itself. GM help to propagate the "move-up" mentality, and now is the time to abandon that old sales method while dealing with real-world market forces. Should GM file for bankruptcy--and I hope they do to reorganize--I say they axe the following: Buick, Pontiac, and Saturn. There is simply no need for them, and the popular models in each can be incorporated in the remaining GM companies.
 

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Cadiman1983 said:
I agree with the fact that the CTS is not an entry-level luxury sedan, its a sports sedan, thats why I doubt they would ever put AWD on it. And you have to realize, the CTS is the bottom of the barrel for Cadillac, so paddle shifting on the steering wheel and push-button start probably won't make their way to the CTS either. The CTS is more affordable because it doesn't have all the luxury options, thats why it is so popular because more people can afford it. I mean I'm 22 and I am driving a very nice Cadillac, most of my friends are incredibly jealous. But if Cadillac had put more luxury items on the CTS, chances are I couldn't have afforded it, and I'd still be driving my old 93' Deville. And if I remember right, heated seats are an option on the CTS.
see, thats pretty true and a main reason why i opted into the CTS. BUT, many people like the CTS body style more than the STS, so they purchase it. what cadillac SHOULD have done was OFFER the various things like push button start, factory electric start, rear camera, cooled seats, heated steering wheel as OPTIONS so you can customize your CTS more to your liking depending on your budget. those with a tighter budget will get the more base cts regardless, but it;s still nice to even have the option to upgrade to those things.

for the money, though, i'm extremely happy what my luxury sport came with and yes, my friends are very jealous.
 

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I doubt Cadillac views the CTS as the bottom of the barrel, but it is what it is, the affordable Cadillac. It is a nice car, don't get me wrong, I love mine to death. But its luxury is not on par with the STS, nor its power.

And I can see Buick and Saturn, but Pontiac has been on the rise with its tweaking of the GTO. And who would buy a Chevy GTO? Its a competitor with the Corvette for the most part, so why would GM bring it under the label of another brand?
 

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I agree with you 3x0, to have the options there would have been a good decision. Keep the base CTS inexpensive, but with the choice to go as high as you want, someone should suggest that to Cadillac...
 

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The paddle shifting on the Lexus is a joke. As a matter of fact, it's not like an F1 shifter mind you, it's simply a gimmicky automatic. I think the paddle shifting on a vette is also an overblown auto, but I am unsure of this. I haven't driven either of these cars, but from what I read these paddle shifters are just as silly as shifting and auto yourself, a-la imitation triptronics. Any thoughts?

As the CTS being and "entry level" luxury sedan, well it is. For Cadillac's. All luxury automakers least expensive car is their "entry level" offering. I doubt the terminology will go away.

My biggest beef with "entry level" CTS's is the crappy, fugly 16" wheels. Put nice rims on the damn base model for crying out loud.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Cadiman1983 said:
And I can see Buick and Saturn, but Pontiac has been on the rise with its tweaking of the GTO. And who would buy a Chevy GTO? Its a competitor with the Corvette for the most part, so why would GM bring it under the label of another brand?
The GTO is a sleeper, and has not fared well in its present design. I personally like it, but one car will not keep Pontiac afloat and if GM wants to stay afloat it needs to start heaving some of its car lines off its stern.
 

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aeromass said:
My biggest beef with "entry level" CTS's is the crappy, fugly 16" wheels. Put nice rims on the damn base model for crying out loud.
agreed 100%. makes me appreciate the luxury sport ones even more when i see a stock 16" roll by. (i mean, the lux sport are no prize, but it's amazing how much sportier they make the car look).

maybe even a better pattern on a 16" would look better...:thepan:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
aeromass said:
The paddle shifting on the Lexus is a joke.
I have heard, but have not substantiated it myself, that the new IS paddle shifting is pretty good. Hmmmm....makes me want to go give one a spin to see firsthand.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
aeromass said:
As the CTS being and "entry level" luxury sedan, well it is. For Cadillac's. All luxury automakers least expensive car is their "entry level" offering. I doubt the terminology will go away.
Bigger is no longer better in today's society...it's just bigger. I like the new STS, but would never consider purchasing one because of its size.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
TripleOught said:
agreed 100%. makes me appreciate the luxury sport ones even more when i see a stock 16" roll by. (i mean, the lux sport are no prize, but it's amazing how much sportier they make the car look).

maybe even a better pattern on a 16" would look better.
Interesting footnote while pricing out an IS350 on Lexus' website:

"[3] Tires fitted with 17- or 18-in wheels are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may be substantially less than 20,000 miles (17-in) or 15,000 miles (18-in), depending on driving conditions."
 

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TripleOught said:
see, thats pretty true and a main reason why i opted into the CTS. BUT, many people like the CTS body style more than the STS, so they purchase it. what cadillac SHOULD have done was OFFER the various things like push button start, factory electric start, rear camera, cooled seats, heated steering wheel as OPTIONS so you can customize your CTS more to your liking depending on your budget. those with a tighter budget will get the more base cts regardless, but it;s still nice to even have the option to upgrade to those things.

for the money, though, i'm extremely happy what my luxury sport came with and yes, my friends are very jealous.
I feel the same way... I could have gotten the STS... but the CTS Design is what did it for me. I would like to see many of those "expensive" options on the CTS... XM AND Sirius, intelligent cruise control, AWD, and HUD for the DVD Nav, Bluetooth and all. I am afraid GM will redesign the CTS and take away the "edge".... and that is what makes this car unique... don't turn it on a smaller STS...please!
 

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SoCadillac said:
I am a bit tired of reading articles classifying the CTS as an entry-level sedan. My wife and are fortunate to where we can purchase the automobiles we like, but are tired of large automobiles for many reasons, not in least being that here in Southern California parking spaces are becoming narrower and smaller as real estate prices are so artificially inflated. The CTS represents our lifestyle a great deal, and we prefer it over an STS or and other large luxury automobile. Besides, the CTS is leading the way for many in my generation (I am fifty years of age) and others, Toyota in particular, have noticed that we do not desire the same automobiles as our parents once drove--they are not practical in today's world. Please take a careful look at how Toyota's Lexus division carefully studied the market and redesigned the IS lineup:

http://www.lexus.com/models/is/index.html

More than anything they have caught onto what the CTS developed, and they are even considering a model with a V8. The IS will sell like hotcakes to my generation as we want agile, competent automobiles, not ocean liners. Lexus has figured this out, and an IS is not considered an entry-level--smart, very smart. All Cadillac need do is to listen carefully to us ("us" being any CTS enthusiast), as they started to do with the Corvette, and pursue a path of constant refinement that has helped make automobiles such as Porsche, such successes. I want my next CTS to have AWD. Are you listening Cadillac? You should be...
if any of you guys can get your hands or computer screen on a copy of Sunday's Washington Post, 1/1/06, read the car section. There is an interesting review of the Lexus LS 430. Then on page two, a good article about GM and Ford and where they stand right now as car makers. So far I'm glad I bought a GM car and I love my CTS.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Cadiman1983 said:
I agree with the fact that the CTS is not an entry-level luxury sedan, its a sports sedan, thats why I doubt they would ever put AWD on it.
Well, the engine is made for it as indicated from GM's own excerpt:

"Flexible oil pan configurations facilitate the engine's adaptability for all drive layouts. V-6 VVT engines destined for AWD applications, for example, are fitted with an oil pan cast specifically with a pass-through so that the front-wheel half shaft can be fitted."

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.gm.com/cgi-bin/pr_display.pl?5015
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Brn1 said:
if any of you guys can get your hands or computer screen on a copy of Sunday's Washington Post, 1/1/06, read the car section. There is an interesting review of the Lexus LS 430. Then on page two, a good article about GM and Ford and where they stand right now as car makers. So far I'm glad I bought a GM car and I love my CTS.
Can you provide a link? If not, can you please give us the gist of the article? I too love the CTS.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Okay, I read the article on the LS 430, but it is to be replaced here shortly and Lexus has a hybrid in the works for it too:

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/spy-photos/spy-photos-2007-lexus-ls-145356.php

There are other spy photos and they are all the same.

Other comments about the upcoming Lexus flagship replacement:

"In spring 2006, the GS will blaze new frontiers, offering the first hybrid luxury car and the first rear-drive hybrid. In doing so, the GS will adhere to the same model positioning philosophy as with the RX400h sport/utility vehicle - put the hybrid at the top of the range with more features and power than the second-best model. Lexus has announced that the 450h will boast more than 300 horsepower, enabling 0-60 mph sprints under six seconds. The powertrain teams a 3.5L V-6 engine with a permanent magnet electric motor, creating the motive force attributed to larger engines in the segment. The math breaks down to simply: V-8 power with four-cylinder fuel economy."
 

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the CTS is the entry level sedan for cadillac. The entry level is the cheapest of the bunch. A c-class is Mercedes' entry level sedan, even though you can price it up to 50k. Same with 3 series and BMW. The IS has always been the entry level for Lexus. I mean who really cares?
 

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I agree with CaddyMan, I think you're just a bit worked up over a Classification.

The CTS is Cadillac's Entry level luxury sedan. It starts at a mere 31,000 MSRP.

Sure, it can option out to ~45k loaded. And you may enjoy your car for all it's worth. But until the day it MSRP's at 40k it's still going to be entry luxury. The IS, with all it's features is also "Entry Level Luxury"
 
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