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2001 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #1
hi there !

after more than 2 years with my 2001 STS in the garage, i'm now decided to search and repair my coolant over-pressure failure.

*The main problem is hozes are hard as a piece of hood after 15/20 km, but last time i drive it on about 50km, the engine do not overheat (but i have put climate to hottest position and fan to maximum in case of....)
*I never loss coolant, or very small amount.
*i heard some bubbules or liquid moving incar after 15/20 km... (like if heater radiator filled with air/coolant but not sure the noise come from it..)
*1 day after 30 km i have seen the coolant temperature gauge move 1 graduation more than usual (at top middle) but without doing anything climb to normal after some seconds.
*when i have bought the car 3 years ago, i have seen blue liquid "gasket" on the coolant main hozes.. :confused::confused: and the water pump gasket have a small coolant leak.

all theses things help me to think that i have a head gasket failure..

so, i have bought a small endoscop camera and start to inspect inside cylinder throught spark plug holes.
i have not found any coolant in all 8 cylinders. only on rear bank i can see the top cylinder is clean on lowest side... but i don't know if it can be a clue of coolant here some month ago... (the car do not start since 8 months)

now, i have bought today a coolant pressure tester to check the pressure cap and the coolant circuit. and i expect i will get some coolant in the cylinder (i receive the tool in next 15 days)

so before this, i try to read many thing about head gasket job..
i already found many thread here about gasket job, but i have not found any thread about unmounting the engine from bottom. i need to know in details what i must unplug, unmount, etc to pull it down of car (in garage !)

i do not have the FSM (not found here in france... :( and ebays sellers want too much money for me. but i think it's not a real problem to not have it. (i have esi)

i have joined the picture of spark plug... on rear bank they are clean, but on front bank they are full of oil ! i found small qty of oil in the hole where coil goes.

joined a picture of the coolant tank with some small particles in coolant... don't know what is it..
one more question, is this is the good level ?

thank for all !
 

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Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Oil in one or more spark plug wells is common - the valve cover O-ring seals for the plug wells weep oil over time. Not a problem.

The radiator hoses should be hard after a drive of over 16 km.

Proper coolant level, cold, should be just at that crossbar visible down in the filler neck. Your level is a bit high - but check/adjust the level cold, never hot.

Some particles in the coolant may be residue from a sealant used by someone.

Look at www.alldatadiy.com - that would be the proper, updated GM service manuals for your car, plus a lot more. The entire engine removal procedures are in there. BUT, that assumes an equipped Cadillac dealer shop. You would need a pallet jack and an engine lift (3 ton) - raise the front of the car, disconnect and lower the entire powertrain/suspension onto the pallet jack, lift the entire front of the car off the powertrain - use the radiator crossbar. Maybe some pictures in Tech Tips and/or nere in Northstar.

Google "cadillac forums 2001 seville engine removal".

I do not believe that - from your posted symptoms - you have head gasket failure. It is perfectly normal for the temperature gauge to move toward the right somewhat when sitting and no A/C system (compressor) on. Cooling fans do not turn on in SLOW until 224 degreesF, very near the line at 12:45 in the picture. The yellow dot is 224 F and the red dot is 236 F (FAST).
 

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2001 Seville STS
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56 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The radiator hoses should be hard after a drive of over 16 km.
oh.. as hard as i can't push my finger in the big one ? i'm a bit surprized..
what about some "water noise" incar or in the dash when engine is cold ? (this is like there is air in the circuit.. i think the air bleeding is "automatic" on theses cars ? no ?)
the coolant pressure stay long time even after engine is cold.. is it normal too ?

Proper coolant level, cold, should be just at that crossbar visible down in the filler neck. Your level is a bit high - but check/adjust the level cold, never hot.
ok i will correct this soon.

I do not believe that - from your posted symptoms - you have head gasket failure.
hum.. really ?
i will check the coolant circuit pressure in few days to be sure. but it could be a good news for me !

what is the "correct" coolant pressure while engine is running ?

thank you very much !
 

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1998 Seville STS, 2003 Deville
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282 Posts
*i heard some bubbles or liquid moving incar after 15/20 km... (like if heater radiator filled with air/coolant but not sure the noise come from it..)
What you're hearing is exactly what you suspect. There is air in the cooling system and it most likely is caused by a head gasket failure. On my 2001 Deville I heard this noise for some time before I actually had overheating problems. What happens is the gasket fails between the cylinder and the coolant jacket around the cylinder which creates a leak path that gets worse over time. The compression formed in the cylinder leaks into the cooling system and over pressurizes it and pushes the coolant out the pressure cap on the expansion tank. As the gasket gets worse, when you turn the engine off the pressure in the cooling system may leak back into the cylinder a little with some of the coolant. Thus will cause a rough idle at startup but only for a few seconds. This will also clean the carbon up off the top of the piston in that cylinder. This sounds like the conditions you are seeing now with your camera scope.

It's time to perform a block test if you can get your hands on one there in France but from what you are explaining it sounds like the head gaskets have failed.

You are describing exactly what happened to my 2001 Deville.
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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what is the "correct" coolant pressure while engine is running ?
If your surge tank pressure cap is rated at 16 psi - or 18 psi - then some figure close to those would be the normal operating pressure. After that 16 - 20 km drive the hoses will be hard - the large top hose will be fairly hot, the smaller lower hose (at the water pump intake) would be a bit cooler.

In cold weather MOST of the engine cooling is done by the heater circuit. You posted that you had heard a gurgling, possibly in the heater core area. This would be expected after a long out-of-service time. If the coolant purge line is operating properly there should be a small steady stream of coolant from it at idle - that system removes air bubbles from the coolant to insure proper water pump operation. The purge line, in your engine, runs from the upper side of the surge tank to a hollow bolt/nipple at the water crossover - next to the water pump cover. IF that line/bolt becomes clogged the system develops air bubbles and possible overheat conditions. Open the surge tank filler neck. Carefully remove the purge line from the tank nipple. Hold it in the open filler neck. Have an assistant start the engine normally. That rubber hose should spit once or twice, then flow a steady stream into the filler neck. If it does not, remove the hose from the bolt/nipple and blow through it - if the hose is clear, use a metal coat hanger wire to unplug the hollow bolt/nipple to a depth of 2 - 2.5". Assemble and test again.

Here's a hint: The water pump drive incorporates a small 3-rib belt tensioner pulley - under that metal shroud. IF that pulley bearing fails it destroys many $$$ worth of belt and pulleys. You might want to obtain another tensioner pulley - $25 USD - from RockAuto.com.

Click on a thumbnail to enlarge, use your browser <-- to back out.
 

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2001 Seville STS
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56 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
It's time to perform a block test if you can get your hands on one there in France
What is "Block test" ?

is it a coolant circuit pressure test ? (have bought the tool to do this)
or combustion leak test ? (not yet bought)
or something else ?

If your surge tank pressure cap is rated at 16 psi - or 18 psi - then some figure close to those would be the normal operating pressure. After that 16 - 20 km drive the hoses will be hard - the large top hose will be fairly hot, the smaller lower hose (at the water pump intake) would be a bit cooler.
mine is 18 psi, but i think this is not so much and i should pinch the hoses ? no ?

In cold weather MOST of the engine cooling is done by the heater circuit. You posted that you had heard a gurgling, possibly in the heater core area. This would be expected after a long out-of-service time.
for me, when cold, there is no noise, noise appear (sometimes) after 15/20 km

If the coolant purge line is operating properly there should be a small steady stream of coolant from it at idle - that system removes air bubbles from the coolant to insure proper water pump operation. The purge line, in your engine, runs from the upper side of the surge tank to a hollow bolt/nipple at the water crossover - next to the water pump cover. IF that line/bolt becomes clogged the system develops air bubbles and possible overheat conditions. Open the surge tank filler neck. Carefully remove the purge line from the tank nipple. Hold it in the open filler neck. Have an assistant start the engine normally. That rubber hose should spit once or twice, then flow a steady stream into the filler neck. If it does not, remove the hose from the bolt/nipple and blow through it - if the hose is clear, use a metal coat hanger wire to unplug the hollow bolt/nipple to a depth of 2 - 2.5". Assemble and test again.
ok, i will check this, but i remember have tryed to blow (with my mouth) air in the purge line and i remember it is ok.

Here's a hint: The water pump drive incorporates a small 3-rib belt tensioner pulley - under that metal shroud. IF that pulley bearing fails it destroys many $$$ worth of belt and pulleys. You might want to obtain another tensioner pulley - $25 USD - from RockAuto.com.
i have already change water pump, water pump gasket and cover, thermostat, tensionners, belts (on water pump side and alternator side)
then i think all is good here. :cool:

when i have received my pressure test tool, i will test the pressure cap too. (have read somewhere, that it can fail)

thank again for all.
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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18 psi in a large radiator hose is about the same "hardness" as a soccer ball. Pretty hard.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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check the PURGE LINE for a constant - gentle flow of coolant -
when ever the engine is running -
this is the ONLY way trapped air in the cooling system is expelled -

the BLOCK TEST uses a blue liquid
that reacts to hydrocarbons in the cooling system -
it samples the air in the serge tank -
here is a video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgkMC-5Mtz8
 

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2001 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #9
hi there !

so, i have done some test on the coolant circuit.
i have bought a Mityvac tool to test the coolant circuit under pressure.

1) i have test the pressure cap,
first time i test it, i can overload it to 20/22psi for about 10 seconds,
and only after the delay it release pressure to 17psi.
after this, it release pressure as soon as it raise above 17psi.
If i wait some time without pressure, the delay come back with a new test.

2) i have raise the engine coolant pressure to 13/15psi, the pressure fall to 5psi during the night.
i raise pressure again to 13/15psi and see the coolant return hose to tank leak at the bolt on crossover side.
once this leak removed, rasing again pressure for about 1 day.
when i came back to the car, i see lot of coolant on the floor !! (and pressure fall to 5psi again)
inspected the cylinder with my endoscope camera and see no coolant in it !

now i must find where the coolant come from... :hmm::hmm: have not seen any leak at this time..
i think i need to check the crossover gasket ?

i have not found the coolant return hose reference and rockauto do not sell it... is someone have the original reference ? where to buy ?

thank a lot !
 

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White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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The 2000+ engine are prone to crossover manifold gasket failures. Mine was replaced under warranty before 20,000 miles.
 

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2001 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #11
hi,
i have received my block tester and fluid.
This week end i will try to do the test.
The crossover's gaskets seem to not leak, but i have the 2 hoses from coolant tank that leak at 12 PSI. there is also a very small leak on a rigid hose on rear of crossover (i mean it's a heater hose)

more info tomorrow :)
 

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2001 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #12
hi all !

so i just done the block test... :confused:

i let engine go to idle and let it running for about 15 minutes with block tester in place and with many many pumping on random intervals along the running time.

the fluid stay bluish... not so blue as it came out of bottle, but not really yellow.. (see 1st picture 162145)

next i have continued with same fluid pumping my breath and it came full yellow very fast in only 2 or 3 pumps. (2nd picture 162240)

the result is not so clear... but i suspect a combustion leak...

what do you think about that ?

during all the test i have not seen any white smoke on exhaust and temperature stay a top middle.. but i have seen some bubbles in the tester between the pumps.. (i think coolant circuit pressure rising)
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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hi all !

so i just done the block test... :confused:

i let engine go to idle and let it running for about 15 minutes with block tester in place and with many many pumping on random intervals along the running time.

the fluid stay bluish... not so blue as it came out of bottle, but not really yellow.. (see 1st picture 162145)

next i have continued with same fluid pumping my breath and it came full yellow very fast in only 2 or 3 pumps. (2nd picture 162240)

the result is not so clear... but i suspect a combustion leak...

what do you think about that ?

during all the test i have not seen any white smoke on exhaust and temperature stay a top middle.. but i have seen some bubbles in the tester between the pumps.. (i think coolant circuit pressure rising)
=====================

the fluid stay bluish...
not so blue as it came out of bottle,
but not really yellow


the result is not so clear... but i suspect a combustion leak...
I'm sorry to be the one to confirm this -
the results are perfectly clear -
your engine failed the block test -

you now must decide if it is worth it to repair the motor -
or simply scrap the car -

oh - before you ask -
NO - there are no cheap fixes -
there are no stop-leak products that will even help -

the ONLY solution is to remove the cylinder heads -
repair the 20 headbolt holes -
replace the gaskets -
re-assemble the engine -
 

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2001 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #14
hi,

hummm. i don't like this answer... but i think you are right... this test just confirm my suspicious hose high pressure...

i know there is no magic fluids to fix the leaks !
i spend last 2 years to prepare my psycho that this car i bought is a big sh.... :mad2:

i have read many things about HG repair... it seem i could do it for about 800~1000$ (with studs from n*performance)

i think the fealure is not in advanced state, do you think i can drive the car for some hundreds/thousand km before doing the job?
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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The rate at which one or more head bolts lose clamping pressure - leading to gasket failure - is not able to be determined. You MAY be able to drive the car indefinitely, or it could fail catastrophically tomorrow.

About the only things you can do is to repair any coolant leaks that occur, keep a close check on coolant level, and drive the car.
 

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White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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Picture #1 is iffy (but not good), but #2 is a definite fail.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
i have found many threads about HG job, but none about pulling down the motor with it's cradle.

is someone have pictures to share to show me what i must do for this part of job ?
what i need to unmount/disconnect, which nut/screw i need to remove.. etc.
i can do this by myself, but the goal of theses questions is to not remove more things than necessary. (wich i can do ! :yup:)

best would be if someone already does this job can help me..

----------

Picture #1 is iffy (but not good)
yes, next week end, i will make a new test before starting HG repair job..

but #2 is a definite fail.
:D it's my breath... in order to check if fluid/tester work fine
 

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You are going to need a Fsm or alldata subscription as it is not an easy write up not hqs anyone here done a step by step(literally remove this bolt with pic) that I have ever seen. A manual is absolutely necessary to assemble the engine correctly. You can get manuals on dvd also. Sorry not an easy way around the manuals for this.
 

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2001 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #19
yes i know, have already esi but i think some photo will improve a lot what i must do (no need of so detailled step by step for each bolt)

i have already search for FSM on ebay, but it is very expensive for me (need to add $$ shipping for france !)
on dvd i read that it is most time a bad copy of bad public book.. not really FSM..
 
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