I just found that Lund Cadillac offers an Eibach Coilover for the CTS-V. Is this old news or am I the first to discover this? Either way, I'm calling him tomorrow to find out more about this suspension. This stock suspension has been putting a "DAMPER" :crybaby: on finishing the exterior look on my V. I really want to get new wheels but without lowering the rear a little, the new wheels won't look good. Check it out... http://www.lundcadillac.com/ACCENLARGE.CFM?ID=32&dlr=LUND
Eibach Coilovers?
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All I can say having Eibachs on my car now with QA1's is, don't waist your money on Eibachs unless you dont care about performance at all. Tomorrow I take the Eibachs off the front end and go back to stock spring. I have figured a way to lower the front end using the QA1's with a Mod the the bracket supplied. The Eibachs are rated at 350lb (reliable source, not Eibach) and the stock shock is rated at 399lb; I'll take what I can get. I am looking for 475 plus but must wait for God knows who to come up with something. Unless someone has some insight for me at less than the cost of about 150 hp of mods.
By the way I did talk t Jay at Ground Control, I am supposed to talk to him again this week.
So that's my 2cents about the Eibach spring.
Oh wait, but you know how I feel already.
What the hey, post reply anyway.
How was Tahoe?
By the way I did talk t Jay at Ground Control, I am supposed to talk to him again this week.
So that's my 2cents about the Eibach spring.
Oh wait, but you know how I feel already.
What the hey, post reply anyway.
How was Tahoe?
That is exactly what I wanted to know. I wanted to know if the springs were at least the same spring rate as the stocks. I guess they are not.rgd said:
I am going to contact a company called Stasis. They make custom tuned Koni Coilovers for Audi's. I just recently had their "Street Coilover" installed on my new Audi. It rides like stock but with the lower stance I wanted. I love this setup so much, I feel like selling the Caddy for a second Audi. Maybe an S4. Really though, I just want a coilover for the V.
The nice thing about Stasis is, I have a 90 day trial period. If I don't like the current springs on the coilover, they will swap the springs for a different spring with either a higher or lower spring rate until I reach my desired ride. That is one awesome feature.
Now I want to see if I can convince them to use my V to produce a coilover for us. They are somewhat local. They are located at the Sears Point Track.
Tahoe was fun. I really wished I had the V though. Hwy 50 is nice and twisty. Lost $500 though....:alchi:
The Eibach Coilover kit was a one-off for Lund's Land Speed driver...I've emailed them several times to no avail. I even called Eibach and was told..NOGO. Should Lund have the coilovers for sale, the springs are linear-race springs...exchangeable with ANY length or rate you can imagine. That is what we need. Sounds like we must cross our fingers and hope that Ground Control can design a solution.
-ace
-ace
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Ground Control makes a really good suspension setup for the M3. They have done ALL of my friends Escalades. Keep us posted if they are going to make one. Hopefully it isn't just coilovers, it would be nice to have an adjustable suspension w/ sways and maybe a better anti-wheel hop solution all sold as one kit..... :thumbsup:
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Wow, that's nuts. I can't imagine interest of 100 units commited when the M3 fitment was done. Not to mention the fact that GC has done several custom fitments for me over the years that were totally one off. For the right amount of money, there has to be a way!rgd said:
100 units...perhaps for the CTS-V. The next question, and it really is the "money" question, is
HOW MANY 6 CYL CTS UNITS COULD BE SOLD?
The application is the same...it would only require a different spring in the front, due to weight differences in engine. That is where the aftermarket suppliers would make the money. The V community would just be icing on the cake.
Should GC make a coilover kit, it would be the only one that would address the adjustable-spring/adjustable-ride-height issue that ALL CTSs have. Other than dropping several thousand dollars on a Penske set-up, we have no choices.
One day....one day....
HOW MANY 6 CYL CTS UNITS COULD BE SOLD?
The application is the same...it would only require a different spring in the front, due to weight differences in engine. That is where the aftermarket suppliers would make the money. The V community would just be icing on the cake.
Should GC make a coilover kit, it would be the only one that would address the adjustable-spring/adjustable-ride-height issue that ALL CTSs have. Other than dropping several thousand dollars on a Penske set-up, we have no choices.
One day....one day....
I have spent allot of time trying to get my suspension right using QA1 shocks and Eibach springs. As it stands right now I have the Eibach spring on the back of the car and the stock spring on the front, with about 2/3 of a coil cut off the bottom. :tisk: The reason for using the stock on the front is because it's shape allows it to be cut. Cutting the spring also stiffens it a little.
All that said, I am still not entirely happy with the setup. :crying: I was digging around looking for a spring/coil fix the other night and came across a company called, Coil Spring Specialists. They are located in St. Marys, KS.
On their web site you can fill out a simple questionare and they will send you a quote for springs at the rate you want them made etc. Having been all over the stock springs it was easy to describe what I wanted, although I can only guess at the spring rate I am after. Anyway, they came back with a quote of, $255.60 per set for the fronts and $268.2 for a set of the rear springs. I have no idea of the quality, have not spoken to them and blablabla. but, there is an option if anybody is interested...
Bob
thats me after my second or third all nighter workin in the garage!
All that said, I am still not entirely happy with the setup. :crying: I was digging around looking for a spring/coil fix the other night and came across a company called, Coil Spring Specialists. They are located in St. Marys, KS.
On their web site you can fill out a simple questionare and they will send you a quote for springs at the rate you want them made etc. Having been all over the stock springs it was easy to describe what I wanted, although I can only guess at the spring rate I am after. Anyway, they came back with a quote of, $255.60 per set for the fronts and $268.2 for a set of the rear springs. I have no idea of the quality, have not spoken to them and blablabla. but, there is an option if anybody is interested...
Bob
thats me after my second or third all nighter workin in the garage!
07 SRX V8 AWD Diamond White Sport Edition & 08 C6 LS3/418ci
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The lund Eibach coil-overs were a prototype that never made it to production due to various suspension geometry issues. Lund just failed to remove those coilovers from their website. The Eibach coilover went to the same graveyard as their attempt to reflash or piggyback the 3.6 CTS ECU and install a centrifugal supercharger. A little bit of history there of "pre-selling" performance mods that has not been tested or engineered properly.
Given the very limited number of CTSV units that Cadillac is producing; I think that you will find that any type of significant change to the vehicles suspension geometry is going to come at a very handsome price; hence the cost of the custom Penske set up. Tool and die costs for such a limited market won't make sense to any manufacturer financially.
Your going to learn to live with what you have as engineered at Nuremburg, hire your own automotive mechanical engineer or dig deep into your wallet as your in the custom end of the swimming pool now my friend and that is where those types of performance modifications get expensive very quickly!
About the most reasonable suspension mod is the adjustable Hotchkis sway bar kit, a set of FG2 shocks, BMR trailing arms and toe rods and I would call it a day!
If you want to close the wheel gap and keep your speedo accurate; invest in a quality set of 3 piece 19" rims. 8.5" up front and 9.5" in the rear. Front rubber should be 245/40/19 and rear at 285/35/19 would be ideal.
Given the very limited number of CTSV units that Cadillac is producing; I think that you will find that any type of significant change to the vehicles suspension geometry is going to come at a very handsome price; hence the cost of the custom Penske set up. Tool and die costs for such a limited market won't make sense to any manufacturer financially.
Your going to learn to live with what you have as engineered at Nuremburg, hire your own automotive mechanical engineer or dig deep into your wallet as your in the custom end of the swimming pool now my friend and that is where those types of performance modifications get expensive very quickly!
About the most reasonable suspension mod is the adjustable Hotchkis sway bar kit, a set of FG2 shocks, BMR trailing arms and toe rods and I would call it a day!
If you want to close the wheel gap and keep your speedo accurate; invest in a quality set of 3 piece 19" rims. 8.5" up front and 9.5" in the rear. Front rubber should be 245/40/19 and rear at 285/35/19 would be ideal.
I'm going to have to disagree! I finally think I am close to what might be considered by most a reasonable suspension fix for about $2,100.00. I have the QA1 shocks, (12 way adjustable) with the Eibach springs on the back and the stock spring, (1/3 coil) cut on the front. After some several different setups, 1=3/8" spacer added to the front shock. I have the front set at 9 clicks and the back at 8 clicks, no fender rub, nice ride, better than stock handling which was my ultimate goal. Although I do agree the Hotchkis sway bars go on next. Oh can't forget the Kars stage 3 cradle to eliminate the wheel hop and improve the rear end handling. Basically makes the cradle solid to the body of the car. No reduction in ride comfort noticeable. If you check out the Team Cadillac cars you will see that the have basically (welded the rear cradle to the chassis).pietroraimondi said:
All that said the total cost so far was $1,700.00. Add $400.00 for the Hotchkis swaybars and it's done.
FYI, Frank, after you left yesterday I added the spacer and cranked the rear two clicks. Much nicer!:bouncy:
I do have one question, how can you close the wheel gap while maintaining an accurate speedo with rims and tires only? If you change the circumference of the wheel/tire you change the speedo. If you don't change the circumfrance you don't change the wheel gap.Spell much?rgd said:I'm going to have to disagree! I finally think I am close to what might be considered by most a reasonable suspension fix for about $2,100.00. I have the QA1 shocks, (12 way adjustable) with the Eibach springs on the back and the stock spring, (1/3 coil) cut on the front. After some several different setups, 1=3/8" spacer added to the front shock. I have the front set at 9 clicks and the back at 8 clicks, no fender rub, nice ride, better than stock handling which was my ultimate goal. Although I do agree the Hotchkis sway bars go on next. Oh can't forget the Kars stage 3 cradle to eliminate the wheel hop and improve the rear end handling. Basically makes the cradle solid to the body of the car. No reduction in ride comfort noticeable. If you check out the Team Cadillac cars you will see that the have basically (welded the rear cradle to the chassis).
All that said the total cost so far was $1,700.00. Add $400.00 for the Hotchkis swaybars and it's done.
FYI, Frank, after you left yesterday I added the spacer and cranked the rear two clicks. Much nicer!:bouncy:
No rubbing is great news Bob!rgd said:FYI, Frank, after you left yesterday I added the spacer and cranked the rear two clicks. Much nicer!:bouncy:
You can't really close the gap from wheel to fender unless you cut the spring or get a shorter spring. You can widen the wheels and tires to come closer to the fender for a fuller flush look. However, when you do that, you need to make sure you are within stock circumference. To be able to do that, you should go to this site, http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html. Input your stock size tire and play with inputing on the other side the tire sizes you wish to run in back. Also you need to take into account that the tire size you plan to use fits on the width of the wheel you plan to use. For example, it's not recommended or it won't fit, if you plan to use a 295/30/18 tire on a stock size 8.5" wide wheel.
I don't know if I rambled on more than I should've. If I didn't and you need more info. let me know.
07 SRX V8 AWD Diamond White Sport Edition & 08 C6 LS3/418ci
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I'm not 100% sure that I understand the "context" of your question regarding the accuracy of the speedo in relation to the Wheel/Rim & Tire diameter, but I'm going to take a "stab at it" based upon what I think your asking.rgd said:I'm going to have to disagree! I finally think I am close to what might be considered by most a reasonable suspension fix for about $2,100.00. I have the QA1 shocks, (12 way adjustable) with the Eibach springs on the back and the stock spring, (1/3 coil) cut on the front. After some several different setups, 1=3/8" spacer added to the front shock. I have the front set at 9 clicks and the back at 8 clicks, no fender rub, nice ride, better than stock handling which was my ultimate goal. Although I do agree the Hotchkis sway bars go on next. Oh can't forget the Kars stage 3 cradle to eliminate the wheel hop and improve the rear end handling. Basically makes the cradle solid to the body of the car. No reduction in ride comfort noticeable. If you check out the Team Cadillac cars you will see that the have basically (welded the rear cradle to the chassis).
All that said the total cost so far was $1,700.00. Add $400.00 for the Hotchkis swaybars and it's done.
FYI, Frank, after you left yesterday I added the spacer and cranked the rear two clicks. Much nicer!:bouncy:
gap while maintaining an accurate speedo with rims and tires only? If you change the circumference of the
wheel/tire you change the speedo. If you don't change the circumfrance you don't change the wheel gap.
Remember that regardless of what method you use to lower the vehicle; whether it be lowering springs or adjustable coilovers to close the wheel gap for aesthetic purposes or perhaps you are truly from an engineering standpoint taking into account every facet of the suspension system with regard to suspension geometry; and if that is the case then there is one thing that is CONSTANT. And that is the FIXED position of the lower A-arm, spindle and hub.
That axis position does not change unless you are installing a drop spindle. That being said; the lower A-arms, spindles and mounting hubs remain in a relatively fixed position regardless of the method that you use to lower the vehicle, ( lowering springs, adjustable shocks etc).
That being said, the factory speedo is calibrated based on total Wheel diameter in relation to RPM's. Currently, the speedo is calibrated based on an 18"x8.5" wheel rim with 45 series rubber. For argument sake, lets just say that the total OEM Wheel Rim including the tire is at a diameter of 27". When you increase the diameter of the rim size from 18" to 19", there has to be a corresponding change in tire series size (say 40 series) to maintain the same number of RPM's to keep the speedo accurate as originally calibrated.
To complicate things even further, when you increase the wheel rim depth from the OEM 8.5" to something more aggressive like 9.5" in the rear, you would have to compensate with 35 series rear rubber as you noqhave to account for rear tracking which comes into play with regard to the suspension geometry in keeping the speedo calibration accurate with regard to the thrust angle.
I'm not sure if that answered your question, but lowering the vehicle via springs and shocks and the fixed position of the wheel spindles and lower A-arms with regard to alterations in Wheel/Rim and tire size diameter are mutually exclusive with regard to speedo calibration.
Also, like you; I'm a huge fan of saving money on performance modifications, but my only concern with the QA1 shock and spring set-up is what kind of warranty or assurance do you have from the manufacturer that you have not compromised the front and rear suspension geometry and it's components with this revised shock and coil-cut set-up?
Only time will tell if you begin noticing negative camber issues, uneven tire wear as well as premature wear of the various suspension components (trailing arms, toe rods, spherical bearing, etc) of your vehicle. There is also the concern of front end scrub radius issues with cutting the coil springs to fit. I would make absolutely sure that you have adequate clearance between the upper A-Arm pinch bolts and front tire sidewalls as you could very well run the risk of a tire blowout under highspeed.
Just a thought on my part as I know that allot of folks have asked QA1 about producing a true "bolt on" adjustable shock and coil-over package for the CTS-V, but they have yet to step up to the plate with a "finished and warranted product" and you had to resort to building your own. It doe sounds like you put allot of thought into it beforehand and QA1 does manufacture quality products and spherical bearings. It is just the application engineering that would have me concerned without any engineer testing or CAD modeling.
Granted $1700 and your personal labor is allot less than the $3250 that Mallet wants for the Penske set-up. But at least with Mallet that extra $1500 buys you a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty which could possibly prove to be far less in cost should you run into any premature suspension wear problems down the road. Just my own opinion, but I do understand the value of saving money up-front, just as long as you don't end up paying more down the road to fix what wasn't broken to begin with.
You should post some pictures of your suspension modifications as it does sound as though you put allot of thought into it beforehand and I'm sure others would like to see the results of your efforts.
Best of luck with your QA1 modifications and perhaps your onto something that no one else has given any forethought to. We certainly know that QA1 has not as of yet!
Please share some pictures and instructions of your efforts and what you have done as there may be others that have ideas to share that could be of mutual benefit to all ***********; especially at $1700!! QA1 may end up owing you a royalty if your onto something!
best regards - Pete Raimondi
Cadillac MotorSports, Ltd.
pietroraimondi said:
Pete,
Thank you for the input. You have more than got to the context of my question; quite honestly you have hammered it on the head again and again. I am admittedly learning as I go here. My only wish is that I had your input prior to my quest which began a few months ago. In retrospect I might have gone the Mallett route based on my experience to this point. Maybe I interpret the Mallett suspension package wrong but I am under the impression that the shocks alone are $3,250.00 with the Coils add another $1,575.00.
Anyway, some history:
I had called and talked with countless suspension and shock manufacturers, Bilstein, Koni, H&R, Eibach, etc and more. Not one of them up to and including the company I bought my shocks from seemed interested in supporting the effort. It has been a very frustrating experience.
You have brought to light an interesting point which is different than the information I was told and how the shocks were presented/marketed. First of all, I was told by both TPiS of whom I bought the shocks from and QA1 that these shocks are a slightly modified shock for the CTS-V. QA1 told me they are closest to the shocks designed and sold by QA1 for the Corvette C series 97’-04’. QA1 part number TC3010P (front) and TC3020P (rear). Again, I was told these shocks are specifically re-worked for the V. I was told they have been engineered to work with the stock spring and/or the Eibach’s.
For that reason I felt comfortable purchasing the QA1 shock set up. However, the Eibach springs mounted with the QA1 shocks as instructed and with the spacers provided by QA1 lowered the car so low, that running over a pea could cause the tire to rub inside the fender well. I tried several different spacers some of which I engineered myself, but never liked the ride with the Eibach springs. As I understand it from TPiS the Eibach spring is rated at 350 ft lb, too soft. The stock Cadi springs are 400lb per QA1 and others. My dilemma then became the desire to lower the car about an inch. My thinking is/was; a lower center of gravity should help the car corner better. I spoke to several technicians about the spring ratings, different spring types and the effects caused by either cutting or heating the springs to lower the car. I came to the conclusion based on the input from more than a few techs/engineers working for OEM shock/spring manufacturers that cutting the front springs was the best way to go. Reasons being and as I am told, cutting the spring (coil) will actually increase the spring rate. The main consideration in cutting a spring is how the spring is wound and how it mounts or rests in the bracket. Example, if the spring ends (coils) are shaped to sit flat and you cut them they will no longer be flat, not good (like the rear springs). However the front spring continues the same shape to it end (bottom of spring). Because of that I was able to cut ½ to 2/3 of a coil off lowering the car about an inch. As it is set up now I get very little fender rub. I thought it was gone completely but it rubbed a couple of times tonight. Yes I know some of this is redundant!
Ultimately my goal is to have a suspension set up for some track day events at places like Thunderhill Raceway, Laguna Seca etc. and be able to race some Autox next year. Yes I am interested in saving a few bucks and I am not afraid to get my hands dirty blablabla. But, at the end of the day I need to be alive to take care of my two teenage boys, I am a single dad!
So what next I ask myself. I can raise the front end with a spacer between the shock and spring. I can try another click tightening the shock but that puts me at 10 clicks with only 2 to go. That hardly seems like the right solution, especially if only driving aggressively on city streets. I can look into a custom set of springs made by someone like Coil Spring Specialties, a custom spring mfg. I send them a stock spring if available (or factory part number) and they use it along with my input to custom fab a set. Very reasonably priced, about $525.00 for all four springs. They use 54SiCr6 spring steel, same as H&R and others use. I can buy mallet. Or I can always go sleep for a month of Sundays and hope it goes away. That trick never works!! I know, I’ll sleep on it for tonight and pray for a little divine intervention in a dream or from this thread.
The car does handle noticeably better than it did stock. You will find some good pictures of it on a thread posted Sunday by Velose titled, Velose and rgd mini noral meet! Platinum Grey
Sorry for this long winded note, but this has been a long winded ordeal. I would be very interested in your comments and any suggestions you might have. By the way, you wondered about the context of my question. I was trying to understand how viable a source of information you might be. Considering the fact that two or three months ago I knew squat about suspension and I now know squat plus a little more than squat about suspension, I was hoping you or someone might declare. People on this forum give a lot of advice, some of it good, others??? As I said the am not/have not been happy with the level of help I have received from either TPiS and/or QA1. Sorry guys, call um as I see um. Until now I have not said a negative thing about the service, but this thread has opened my eyes a little more. It very well may be that I have nothing to worry about I guess time will tell. Anyway its late I’m beginning to blablablabla……..
I appreciate very much your taking time to offer what is obviously sound advice in a helpful and considerate manner. As I said feel free to make any suggestions based on my explanation of events to this point.
Lastly I have one more tidbit to share.
This is another interesting bit of history I was told about these shocks. Without going into detail of who is involved, I was told the shocks were originally engineered for a very well known performance racing Development Company that specializes in race and street performance engines and parts. And that they had cancelled the contract with QA1 and are now in litigation because of the cancellation.
So now you know.
Thanks for listening!
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