Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
96 Sedan Deville
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was told that my brake problem was with the electrical portion of this module pt # 25633191. I bought one on ebay and proceeded to try to install the module by tryng to take it apart while it was still mounted on the car. When it looked like I needed to remove the whole module which includes removing the hydraulic lines. Bfore I did this I searched for further advice and was told by a local brake shop that it could not be done. They said that the computer would not recognize the new module and I would have to have the memory flashed. Is this a fact?? I thought the only other thing I would have to do after I reinstalled the module was to bleed the brakes. How are others DIY on this issue?
Thanks,
 

·
Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
Joined
·
86,781 Posts
I searched for further advice and was told by a local brake shop that it could not be done. They said that the computer would not recognize the new module and I would have to have the memory flashed.
That does not sound right to me. Can't say that I have ever heard of that, but I could be wrong.
 

·
Registered
1997 Seville STS, 2000 Seville STS
Joined
·
1,694 Posts
No thats not correct. You can swap the electronics part without worrying about reflashing any module in the car. I don't think any module in a 96 save the PCM needs to be reflashed when its replaced. Just make doubly sure you have the correct one. There are different versions relating to the type of braking system you have, they do not interchange and will give you new DTCs related to the ICCS1 and ICCS2 communication buses. Match the part number on the paper tag on the top of the unit with the one in the car. Easy to get to from the drivers side front wheelwell, pull the wheel and inner fender liner and you'll be looking right at the EBTCM. Don't pull the whole thing if you can avoid it, you will never get the ABS unit bled correctly without a TechII to operate the solenoids inside it.
 

·
Registered
96 Sedan Deville
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
No thats not correct. You can swap the electronics part without worrying about reflashing any module in the car. I don't think any module in a 96 save the PCM needs to be reflashed when its replaced. Just make doubly sure you have the correct one. There are different versions relating to the type of braking system you have, they do not interchange and will give you new DTCs related to the ICCS1 and ICCS2 communication buses. Match the part number on the paper tag on the top of the unit with the one in the car. Easy to get to from the drivers side front wheelwell, pull the wheel and inner fender liner and you'll be looking right at the EBTCM. Don't pull the whole thing if you can avoid it, you will never get the ABS unit bled correctly without a TechII to operate the solenoids inside it.
Mark; That is the direction we first stated in. We got to the point of trying to get into an assembly underneath the air intake and almost tore up the windshield washer bottle, when we spotted the correct assembly behind the radiator. By just moving a radiator hose we were able to get to the assembly from underneath the car and from on top.
Thats when we ran into a problem. We tried to separate the electronic section from the hydraulic section by prying on them. We stopped when we ran into resistance. We did not want to pry to hard because we were concern in bending connectors inside this assembly. We had the assembly loose but with the steel hydraulic tubing still attached. We are thinking of pulling the assembly out of the car and working on it on a bench. Now wwith the bleeding problem that you mentioned on your post we really do not know what to do. Is there a simple safe way to separate these two units?
Ben
 

·
Registered
1997 Seville STS, 2000 Seville STS
Joined
·
1,694 Posts
Theres 6 small phillips head bolts on the outside (wheelside) face of the module along with one larger bolt in the center. (yours might be different, my 97 Seville has 6 screws and a center bolt on the inside face, my 2000 deville just has 6 screws around the edge on the outside face) Did you take all of them out? If so the two halves should come apart pretty easily. The module does have some kind of adhesive (or maybe they just rust together over time) that holds the electronic part to the BMPV part, but once it starts to come apart it just pops off.
 

·
Registered
96 Sedan Deville
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Theres 6 small phillips head bolts on the outside (wheelside) face of the module along with one larger bolt in the center. (yours might be different, my 97 Seville has 6 screws and a center bolt on the inside face, my 2000 deville just has 6 screws around the edge on the outside face) Did you take all of them out? If so the two halves should come apart pretty easily. The module does have some kind of adhesive (or maybe they just rust together over time) that holds the electronic part to the BMPV part, but once it starts to come apart it just pops off.
I guess thats where we differ. Mine has 4 torx head screws on the opposite side of the pump Or on the side where the big connector clips on. If you go to Ebay and search the pt number I originally posted you can see what my replcement module looks like. I guess that is why you can get to your module from the wheel well. Do you think anyone else is seeing our post that might have worked on a 95 Deville?
 

·
Registered
1997 Seville STS, 2000 Seville STS
Joined
·
1,694 Posts


Yours is pretty similar to my Sevilles unit, except the body on mine comes all the way to the top of the BMPV and my connector is on the side with the screws. You see that circular thing sticking out the left side of the EBTCM in the picture above? Thats also a bolt that holds the unit together. If you took the 4 screws out and that bolt out the two halves should come apart. The gasket sealer they use makes them tough to separate sometimes, but once you break an edge loose it comes right apart. the only thin in there is an electronics board and about 9 solenoid coils that fit over plungers that operate the valves in the hydraulic half of the unit. thats what makes the loud buzzing noise and the vibration in the brake pedal when the ABS activates, its those valves being opened and closed by those coils.

If you've got all 5 of those connection points off, just give the side of it a couple of easy taps with a ballpeen hammer and it should loosen up.

Mine looks like this:

 

·
Registered
1999 Seville STS RHD
Joined
·
6 Posts
Hi from England,
I have a Seville STS made in 1999 in US, right hand drive for the United Kingdom market. I have 2 lights on the DIC, TC and ABS. The codes shown on the built in scanner show 'No ABS Data' and on other systems:-
P1602 H C==current,H=history
U1255 C
B1983 H
C1780 C .

The Tech 2 shown no communication with the chassis system but all other systems are accessible.

I have carried out the checks in the K series manual for No communication with the EBTCM with the pin-out box and adapter and there is good ground and battery voltage where it should be.

Does anyone know if there is any chance that this is something other than a failed EBTCM? The car has covered only 18,000 miles which doesn't seem much for such an important component to fail.
Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give.
Best regards
Monty
 

·
Registered
1995 Sedan DeVille, base model
Joined
·
6 Posts
Mark C
I am following your EBTCM 'project' with great interest. After replacing the left front wheel bearing/speed sensor assy, no more 'growling', but still get Codes 25 and 27! And, "Traction Disabled" has reappeared.

My EBTCM has 4 torque fasterners and one other on inside facing surface. Numbers etched in the Bosch nameplate are:
D1150365 831
265 220 000
563 11 27 04

The last set looks like a 'date'. Since my DeVille (Base Model) is a 1995, that could indicate the EBTCM may have been replaced. I am the third owner and received good documentation for the car that I purchased with 137,000 miles on it. There is no mention in the documentation that that assy was replaced, at least by that time. In fact, the assy instl does not look as though it has ever been 'tampered' with (removed and replaced).

I doubt this adds much to your 'data base' of sleuthing, but wanted you to know there are 'others of us' out there that, collectively, we may get a better handle on this 'mysterious' system!
John-William
Houston, TX
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Is this thread still alive (...and why doesn't anyone ever return to "share" what their Final Outcome is/was! That's downright rude)?

1996 Eldorado Touring Coupe

As can often be expected from an Internet Forum, ALL of the information is slightly lacking. I have a '96 ETC and EVERYTHING that "goes before" swapping the EBTCM has been removed and replaced at least once. No lie; no exaggeration; no
stone unturned and I keep getting "nuisance" TC/ABS off" warning ligths. "Monitoring in flight" shows that the Code(s) TC0025 and/or TC0027, or both, are what is kicking off the DTC (and yet, as Ranger pointed out, "maybe it IS the EBTCM"
because the "internal fault check" only checks the four locations ONE AT A TIME in this unit. The hub/sensor is new, TRW and ohms perfectly for an hour at different rpms (and I too, have "lost the hum" that was coming from the LF hub) So
here I am, with all FOUR corner Torx screws removed from a '96 Seville with a KNOWN GOOD EBTCM with the same p/n -it was a bit tricky getting the inboard rear Torx out, but nothing a spring type flex shaft 1/4" drive extension, a 1/4" drive,1/4" socket with a Torx bit in the end and a garden variety ratchet couldn't handle gracefully.

Now the sticky wicket:
So all indications here are that the remaining "bolt" is in fact a "bolt". It is NOT - at least on this Deville (the Donor)- the EBTCM is coming from. It is a NUT!!! So, can I get a witness, here? With the NUT removed, access to splitting the EBTCMfrom the valve body remains impossible. I am RELUCTANT to "double-nut" this scrawny (metric) "stud" and "backing it out" because I have had way too much Fun with the anodic scale over the years. I HAVE AeroKroil (anything else is a
WASTE OF TIME in comparison. Believe it , or Go Fish) and will continue re-applying the Kroil for anther 24 hours while I wait and hope -with my fingers crossed- that I am missing something and someone will enlighten me. I suspect I will
eventually ceremoniously break off the "stud" inside the cast aluminum body of the EBTCM and unless it breaks off 100% flush, I see no way the EBTCM will come off the valve body enough to clear the bracket they co-habitate within.

Fact is, without my having done this task before on a '95 or '96 Caddy (BTW, this p/n is NOT "the same as" earlier or later EBTCMs. SIMILAR TO, yes. "Same as", no) I must question what I am in for with the physical interface itself? HOW FAR does the EBTCM have to stand off the valve body to allow it to "slide out and away"??? Looking like it better need no more than about one quarter inch! The "other end" (the valve body side) has a mirror image stud and nut arrangement, so I have a pretty good idea that "releasing the whole shitterie" from the frame bracket is NOT the preferred suggestion. Looks like it may have eventually taken a "dummy on the floor with grease under his fingernails" to point out to a starched-
shirted engineer that this was a really dumb way to install this setup, and it SHOULD be a "bolt" in each side, like everybody -including those that have never actually DONE this task- says it "is".

So here's hopin' I'm missing something really dumb. I'd be MOST appreciative if I could get some "good experience" involved with this!
 

·
Registered
1996 Deville
Joined
·
142 Posts
I was getting the same codes in my 96 deville and went straight for the EBTCM. I got one off a 97 at a junkyard. In the end I found it easier to pull the whole pump with the EBTCM and then bleed the brakes after. When pulling the computer off the pump there are four bolts on each corner and one in the middle that is under the mount that bolts to the frame. Once you have the 5 bolts out it only has to pull out about a half inch to unplug and then it is free. Don't be surprised if a loose relay falls out. Hope that helps it solved my problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Thanks for the reply, crabgrass!!! So...you too are now saying that "there are five bolts", right? I don't mean to sound snotty in any way, but I have removed four SCREWS (with Torx heads) from each corner and according to "local wisdom",
the FIFTH fastener is "ALSO" a "bolt"???!!!??? I'm looking at a NUT ON A STUD that is screwed into the lower edge of the EBTCM (inside the round cast boss on the EBTCM, protruding THROUGH and NUTTED to the frame mount. In the strictest sense of the language, I'm saying there are NO "bolts", but there are four screws and a nutted stud for "five FASTENERS" total but no "bolts" in this installation. Is this not a correct statement? Are there "four screws and one nut on a stud"
that secure the EBTCM to the valve body??? Because, I'm sayin'...there is only going to be a frog-hair UNDER 1/4" clearance -the thickness of the rubber shock bushing- if I back that stud out and if I need "1/2 inch or so", it ain't gonna
happen. Also, the fastener opposing that retains the valve body to the frame mount is ALSO a stud with a nut! I'm looking to swap out the EBTCM (the "computer module") in place while leaving the "other part" unwrenched. The brakes work
SOOOO NICE, I do NOT want to lose the feel and function by having to bleed them, because I have NO TOOLING to properly cycle the ABS system to do a proper bleed. What am I missing here???

Has anybody ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHED swapping out the EBTCM, in place, for a 1996 Cadillac (Deville or Eldorado ETC)? PLEASE, edjumacate me!

You say you got a replacement EBTCM for a '96 Deville off a '97 model!?! And that WORKED correctly??? I believe my information may very possibly be wrong, but I must be laboring under the misconception that '95 and '96 p/n 25633191 were the same EBTCM, but '97s were different. This (these) was the "changeover year(s)" from OBDI to OBDII and there WERE changes made, following. Supposedly certain variations will physically "bolt up", but are different "electrically". This
would fall in line with what Marc C said in post #3 (this thread) but Yeah,Yeah, Sevilles aren't Devilles or Eldorados.

Apparently, the pictures in this thread have either "dried up" or will not work in my Browser.
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
68,423 Posts
Apparently, the pictures in this thread have either "dried up" or will not work in my Browser.
When using the CF site itself (as opposed to storing stuff in an online album site) to upload attachments we're limited to 20 mb of storage - for everything - so many active members periodically delete old pictures and diagrams for threads that have lain dormant for several years.
 

·
Registered
1996 Deville
Joined
·
142 Posts
The 5th bolt is the hard one and that is why I removed the whole setup pump and all. That stud that mounts the EBTCM to the frame bracket is on a sleeve that slides over a rubber isolator, the rubber is covering the final bolt. I did not have to cycle the abs system after just bleed the brakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Okay! Now. so that I don't misunderstand... The stud I have the nut off at this point is on a sleeve. That sleeve slides over a rubber insulator (presumably that is what I can see "along side" the frame mounting bracket?) and the insulator covers the head of the #5 fastener (which is in fact a bolt, right?). So -before I "Rip and Tear" and screw something up- this raises two more simple (I HOPE!) questions: 1)how do I proceed (correctly" THE FIRST TIME) to remove the stud and/orthe insulator WITHOUT removing the valve body, and 2)is it indeed POSSIBLE AT ALL to remove the EBTCM (proper) leaving the brake line piping intact, thus avoiding not only having to bleed, but also the Dreaded Twisted Off Brake Line Syndrome! Sure, I have proper line wrenches, but even though the lines themselves are not visibly rusty, there is no guarantee that a line connected with a flared
joint that was made 16 years ago hasn't become "slow-welded" together. Pointing out the location, I will only be able to either SEE or REACH (but not both at the same time). Rusty lines that fail at disassembly should absolutely be changed, and I am not afraid to do whatever I HAVE to do if and when the time comes, but I would rather NOT "induce my own difficulties" if at all possible.

crabgrass...Thank You very much for taking the time to "take up the task". Sorry for the somewhat tardy reply, but, well...you must understand...Needs of Service only allow me to "play" with this at IT'S choosing! The olderer I get, the less hours there are in a day (aging is NOT for the
Faint-hearted!!!). Thanks Again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Swap is complete. Operational check 100%!
Here's "how to do it" on '95/'96 Cadillacs using AC Delco P/N 25633191 module. It is my understanding that other years are similarly installed. Before beginning, remove the air cleaner "lid", the filter, and the filter box lower half. This is held
down by two rubber "frommitses", lift the box up and off these rubbers and slide the "legs" out from under the top opening of the PCM top cover. Next (and...you will have to remove the steel corner brace plate to complete this step) grab
the PCM (complete) by the side facing the engine and lift it up and off similar rubber frommitses on the inboard side. When these are free, there is one more thing holding the PCM in place...there is a plastic "horn" molded onto the case that
is pointer right at your belt buckle. Lift the PCM up and out of the hole in the fender wall and stow it (my "donor car" had enough slack to simply turn it around and let it lay on the engine nicely; the ESC wouldn't reach that far and I needed toturn it and lean it against the fender. Okay, let's get greasy!

1) remove -and stow out of the way- the terminal strip connector. There is a shiny "latch" that folds down over the connector on the forward end. Lift this latch, pull upwards on the aft lifting stub and the connector "swings" up and forward
on and molded-in "hook" watch this action carefully the first time you do this, as it is very easy to re-connect the connector WRONGLY and/or BREAK STUFF.
2) from under the car, locate and LOOSEN ONLY the three 10mm NUTS that secure the pump body AND the elec. module (as a unit) to the frame mount. Two are located in the "slot" (opening) between the frame and the radiator support, and
the rear nut is accessible through an opening in the frame stamping.
3) shove upwards from underneath to slide the three studs holding these nuts up and out of the SLOTS that are in the top of the mounting bracket. Not to worry, there's lots of flex in the brake lines and any line(s) that is too rusty as to
break at this "insult" weren't safe to drive on anyway, and needed replacing before you "spoiled them" with this mild abuse.
4) using a #25 Torx bit (I found that a spring-type 1/4" flex extension to be the secret weapon here, sometimes in conjuction with a regular 6" long extension) (I also found that removing the clamps that secure a wire loom across the front
face of the lower frame crossover provides the required "little more room" making this job less stressful) remove the four corner screws (other years are alledged to have more).
5) to access what has herein come to be known as the "fifth bolt", you will have to now work off the rubber dodad that the stud is mounted to in order to get to the Torx "socket head bolt" (Gawd, that was SO EASY to say, considering that
this is so difficult to figure out -the first time- because this is a weird way of attaching things that is actually beautifully simple and my old eyes don't focus up close so pretty good anymore) that it is hiding. Penetrating oil will solve the
issue of the rubber "bore" of this bushing RUSTING TO what is actually the "stub" on the bolt head that this rubber bush/mounting stud is hiding. You only need to "dislodge" this one rubber thingie, leave the other two on the pump body in place IF YOU CAN, 'cause they are a BEAR to get back in place through and around the frame (the rear one especially, don't ask me how I know!).
6) once this has be accomplished, nothing is keeping the module on the side of the pump body except for a thin diameter rubber gasket that may or may not be stuck to the face of the parting line. There are, however two plugs mated right
near the bottom edge that you can clearly see, looking up from the bottom. The module is very light for its size, and with the flex in the brake lines available, it all comes apart very simply and easily. I removed one from the bottom, the
other from the top.
7) installation is the reverse of removal. MIND THE MANNER in which you reinstall the EBTCM connector plug! It needs to go STRAIGHT DOWN onto its heel over the pivot point, where it then TIPS from straight up-and-down to flat, and in
place. The metal "lock" needs to be "open" while this is all happening, until you actually LOCK IT when the plug has mated properly. You CANNOT correctly mate this plug if the lock is down as you tip it in. You WILL see why they cast on
the little lifting ear on the rear end. It makes it possible to not only LIFT the connector when you unlock it, it allows you to LOCK the lock, when you have it properly closed, by giving you a place to get the right forefinger in there to hold
it closed while your left hand locks the lock.
8) reinstall the PCM, air cleaner box, filter and lid, and the corner brace. Redo the clamps on the lower wire run (and the plastic engine guard piece IF it was still there). Don't forget to reconnect the airflow sensor on the filter lid BEFORE you
put the plastic cover back on the relay/fusebox, or you might freak out when you next fire up and see if you fixed it, and get a Check Engine Light about sixty feet down the road!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I was told that my brake problem was with the electrical portion of this module pt # 25633191. I bought one on ebay and proceeded to try to install the module by tryng to take it apart while it was still mounted on the car. When it looked like I needed to remove the whole module which includes removing the hydraulic lines. Bfore I did this I searched for further advice and was told by a local brake shop that it could not be done. They said that the computer would not recognize the new module and I would have to have the memory flashed. Is this a fact?? I thought the only other thing I would have to do after I reinstalled the module was to bleed the brakes. How are others DIY on this issue?
Thanks,
That is correct. Tpms has to be relearned just like the valves in the rim when they are replaced
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top