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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am going to try to be as civil as possible because I am really pissed off right now. The dyno is 20/20rwhp on the low side so you can add that to what you see.

Low numbers were done with the 2.55 pulley tune:



I wish you could see the air fuel ratio but it was beyond lean. Afterward we reviewed the 2.55 tune to stock and saw very little difference with no added fuel for the increased boost. Granted mistakes happen but they told me it was not a pulley tune.

Next run was after we fixed the tune. As you can see the car runs great up until 5000-5500 where we started getting detonation so he shutdown. So I got around 520hp/tq at the 5000-5500rpm mark before he let off.

The guys helping me with the car used to work for a well known r&d shop so they put in a call to a friend where he said point blank the car does not provide enough fuel and a fuel booster pump is required. This was not some chump they spoke too either it is their head engineer saying this. I am holding off disclosing any names.

I do not recall that information being conveyed to us and that is what I am most angry about. Who has the correct information that is what I would friggin like to know?

I want to say thanks to Pat at Quality Motorsports because he burned a lot of his day helping me with this. His brand new stock V did 450rwhp on a very hot day.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Some side note stuff. Installed a 160 TStat with no changes to the tune and it did not throw any codes. Also flushed radiator and went with distilled water and water wetter and saw a 10 degree drop on temps.
 

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2009 CTS-V Radiant Silver/Ebony Auto
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Cadv know your frustration- see previous posts

How did you fix tune- did they use a new tuning program- efilive? HP?

So your tech is saying we need a fuel booster at a certain boost pressure?
 

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2012 CTS-V Sedan, 2011 CTS Coupe, 2010 Ford Raptor
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So you were 435 and 423 with both pulleys, 90mm TB, intake and the W4M pulley tune? I was hoping to see your numbers up near 600. I thought the W4M tune was supposed to help your power. Any idea why your A/F ratio was so lean with the W4M tune?

Is your engine alright with the engine being so lean? Detonation doesn't sound good.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Cadv know your frustration- see previous posts

How did you fix tune- did they use a new tuning program- efilive? HP?

So your tech is saying we need a fuel booster at a certain boost pressure?
The tune was made from scratch using HP Tuners (3 guys with a ton of experience put their heads together to come up with it). Yes he said we need a fuel booster but I am unsure at what level we need it. I am working through the issue with Quality Motorsports and I will keep you guys updated. Basically I have to baby my car right now.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
So you were 435 and 423 with both pulleys, 90mm TB, intake and the W4M pulley tune? I was hoping to see your numbers up near 600. I thought the W4M tune was supposed to help your power. Any idea why your A/F ratio was so lean with the W4M tune?

Is your engine alright with the engine being so lean? Detonation doesn't sound good.
435 was with stock TB, modded stock airbox (another intake mod that Quality is going to release in the future), and w4me tune. We think the tune was a mixup because it did not have the fuel changes you would expect. Basically a mislabeled 2.55 pulley tune but in all honesty I have no idea.

We did not get detonation when it was running lean only after we started giving it the fuel it needed. That was only once and he shut it down.

I remember the A/F ratios were 10.35 and 13.x just not sure which one is when it was running lean. I think it is the 10.35 but I am prolly wrong.
 

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It sounds like you didnt flash in the CEF file correctly in the handheld tuner and or flash in the correct tune. 1.28515625 1.28515625 1.28515625 1.28515625 1.271484375 1.263671875 1.2822265625 1.3154296875 1.4541015625 1.45703125 1.45703125 1.45703125 1.45703125 1.45703125 1.45703125 1.45703125 1.45703125 1.45703125 1.408203125 1.408203125 1.408203125 1.408203125 1.408203125 1.4287109375 1.470703125 1.470703125 1.470703125 1.470703125 1.470703125 1.470703125 1.470703125 1.470703125 1.470703125

are the eq ratios that im asking with is a MASSIVE amount of fuel added compared to stock in the CEF i sent you. If they dont match these values then the CEF file was not loaded that i emailed you. I KNOW the tune works for your exact mods as I have the SAME tune on my car which works perfectly as does with all the other cars i have tuned here in person with the SAME mods. If the tune wasnt working then it was simply that..... The CEF file was not loaded correctly into the handheld.

I have warned EVERY ONE there are no supprises that when you are near your 600hp mark then you are DONE... The car cant safely supply any more fuel to support the extra horsepower... I say it every day.

Your 255 upper and 8% lower is the max you can run.. You should be at the 588-600hp mark to the wheels now. The only reason you wouldn't is your stock airbox. Which ALSO plays with the airfuel ratios..

If your shop wants to send me the Read from what they pulled from the handheld i can check it here and can see what you actually have in your ecm at that time and check. But im VERY sure that if it was the right tune, it should have been dead on.

The 255 only pully tune you originally had of coarse will be lean as it wasnt set up for the 5% pulley also which adds a ton more power. Without the 5% pulley is will show 11.6-11.8 on the af all the way thru the rpms at wot..


The shitty thing is, that if you could have just waited a few hours, i could have talked with you and walked you thru installing the cef file and then your warrenty wouldnt have been void on your engine /transmission now...
 

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CadV,

no worries man! it will get solved. it is just a matter of fine tuning the tune. i do tune all my cars my self and i know how it gets sometimes :want: I know that Jes will help you quick :) it is not that hard really. if you need my help, i am hear for you :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Jess has been real responsive so he suggested I put his 4" intake on which I just got done doing. Updated the tune on my handheld and trying to get a dyno lined up.

Will keep you guys updated.

He did say we shoud not need any fuel mods below the 600hp mark. Jess also said A/F with my mods should be around 11.6 any more than that and the fuel system cannot supply the needed fuel. The last run we were doing 13.x.
 

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CadV,

Sorry I missed you at Quality yesterday...but maybe it was for the best after hearing about your bad day. Let me know the next time you go to Quality and hopefully I can catch up with ya!

Hopefully picking up my V today!

Robert
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just got back from round 2 and the results are still not good. Massive amount of gas was thrown at the car (9.x A/F) with Jesse's new tune and it ran crazy rich. Even after leaning it out to 11.5 I never did over 500rwhp. The best I did was 520rwhp with Quality Motorsports tune and we ran into the fuel restriction at 5000rpm.

I have had a bunch of people review the tunes given to me and there have been a lot of red flags.

Lingenfelter was asked about the pulley combo and they said flat out a fuel booster pump is required.

I am not getting into modifying the fuel so I am backing out of the blower pulley and going to stick with a 9" crank ring if my motor and tranny are ok. My car is not running good right now.

When you do anything to your car get a computer on it and dyno it. Don't trust the tunes.
 

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So does this mean the tunes and mods aren't living up to what they claim?
 

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I'm just baffled as to how low the numbers are, even for 20/20 low. My lame car only needed a tune to get to 520 rwhp. Keep in mind that comparing dyno to dyno is dangerous, but still--that's a HUGE gap.

I'm hoping to get 560-570 with crankpulley, headers and Corsa exhaust. I'm thinking that's pretty reasonable...
 

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Sorry to hear that you are having problems, CadV, and I certainly hope that you get everything straightened out to your satisfaction. I can only imagine how disheartening this is. You might have saved me a lot of money, though, as I am just getting ready to get one of these, and I think that I will go very slow on the mods. I get frustrated even when my '87 turbo Buick isn't running straight up, and I can only imagine how this feels with a pricey ride like these. Good Luck with everything. I am sure that you will get it all together & running top notch.
TIA/R: Gary Wells
 

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Cadv-

Are you referring to the WFM tunes most of us are running as having faults?

What specifics are your techs referring to?

Most of us appear to be ok-see no other reports of tune problems
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm just baffled as to how low the numbers are, even for 20/20 low. My lame car only needed a tune to get to 520 rwhp. Keep in mind that comparing dyno to dyno is dangerous, but still--that's a HUGE gap.

I'm hoping to get 560-570 with crankpulley, headers and Corsa exhaust. I'm thinking that's pretty reasonable...
It was 105 in the dyno shop when we made the runs.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Cadv-

Are you referring to the WFM tunes most of us are running as having faults?

What specifics are your techs referring to?

Most of us appear to be ok-see no other reports of tune problems
I simply trusted what I bought and never verified it with a tuner and dyno.

I would like to see someone running 15 pounds of boost post their dyno of 600rwhp. I genuinely would like to see it. According to the people we spoke with it is impossible with our fuel system. That's why Hennessey and Lingenfelter are offering 540rwhp packages because beyond that you run into fuel problems. Lingenfelter has all this stuff in R&D and the fuel is why it has not been released.

If I am wrong no biggy, I am after the truth. Too many people have told me what I am sharing with you guys.

Just be careful guys.
 

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I have shown dyno videos on lingenfelters dyno with SEVERAL people as witnesses in person on hitting those numbers as promised.. The tunes are set up for cars that have no issues. If you have issues on your car then of coarse the tune isnt going to be correct as it is expecting everything to be normal. If you ran Rich in the program it is because you are not making the horsepower that you should be. Even a stock car with just the 255 upper pully and STOCK tune makes 540-560 horsepower TO THE WHEELS. With JUST the 255 upper. That is why the other guys say that number. With my tune for the 255 upper i just pull some timing to be safer, add just a hint of fuel from stock as it is around 11.5 after the tweek and then make some limiter changes and minor background stuff.

For the 255 upper and 5% "8.5" ring you should be near the 600 mark with exhaust and cold air box. I know, as i have done it here SEVERAL times on SEVERAL cars in person.. Im sure i have High def vids of all the cars if it would make a difference..

IF YOU GO PAST THE 8.5 Ring is when you want to add a fuel fix. As that is when you get past that 600 horsepower mark. That was the only reason why i even started messing around with a fuel fix was that i wanted to add a 9 or a 9.5inch ring to my lower that is on my car. That was the only time it was needed. Yes the fpdm is at 95-100 percent duty cycle at that point, but only at that point. The only issue then was you start to drop fuel pressure from 65psi to about 60psi, which then makes the injector duty cycle hit 95% So TECHNICALLY you could probably have enough fuel for 15 more horsepower to be at 100% duty cycle.

If the tune i set up was very rich it was simply because something on your car was making it not make the power it should have.. Im supplying the fuel for the 600 you should be at.. Which if you say it was REALLY rich also shows that the stock fuel system isnt running out of fuel as it was obvously adding more than the engine was using...



Another thing for everyone to know is, heat soak intake is full of crap. How long does it take for thermal transfer of heat to air. Then think about how long it takes, and how long the air is actually inside the intake track itself due to being consumed from the engine.. It isnt an issue EVER.. Anyone saying different is probably a person selling something of coarse, and wants to make money on something...

If people want plastic intakes, i can make plastic ones, Just the metal ones are longer lasting, dont split, are really tough and wont fall apart.... Think about EVERY TURBO car and supercharger car that is using METAL piping.... They dont seem to have issues.......
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Gonna check and change the spark plugs see if that makes a difference. Right now the lower rpm's are very sluggish, shifts are sloppy. Once the RPM's build up it is much smoother but I am missing a lot of power for sure. Any higher gear low RPM scenario where more gas is being dumped in the cylinder it runs crappy.

Just running the stock tune right now and not giving enough gas for the blower to kick in.

I am working with Jesse on it. He offered to work on it for free if I bring the car up. I just need to prove there is not something mechanically wrong with the car or it will be a wasted trip.

The tough part has been the different stories I am getting from shops I talk too. The stories are not consistent and most of the time vary quite a bit. Their stories prompted me to create this thread in the first place. At least Jesse has worked on our cars so I am trusting his advice. Including the other shops has just made things worse and more stressful.

Jesse did say that a totally stock car and tune with 2.55 upper should dyno at 560rwhp.

If changing the plugs doesn't work I am backing out of all the mods.
 
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