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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok, here are my dyno results from this morning. A few notes:

1. Volant Cool Air Intake installed
2. The first pull was done in third gear, and they last three were done in fourth gear.
3. The average of the last three pulls was 170.96hp & 166.55 torque. At a 30% loss, thats 244.23hp & 237.93 torque.
4. It was 50 degrees outside, the hood was open (they insisted that it stay open), and a fan was keeping the radiator cool (although no air was blowing directly into the intake).

My main question is, it is a 30% loss right? I originally thought it was only 20%, but the shop stated it was 30%. And in my opinion, thats a heck of a gain simply from an intake. And from what I have seen from other members dyno data, it is not consistent. Any ideas?

Also, should it have been done in third gear or fourth gear?
(BTW, it took them 20 minutes just to figure out where to connect into the car, I found it quite amusing... :histeric: )



Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\Jacob Lundeen_002.drf
Run Title: cadillac cts 2003
Run Notes: intake

Run Date: 12/13/2005 11:20:53 AM

Jacob Lundeen_002.drf: 49.02 °F 29.94 in-Hg Humidity: 35 % SAE: 0.95 Average Gear Ratio: 77.75

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.22 5.50 175.46 167.53 14.18
0.35 5.60 175.95 165.03 13.79
0.46 5.70 175.42 161.64 13.46
0.60 5.80 179.71 162.74 13.16
0.76 5.90 179.12 159.45 12.93
0.92 6.00 177.72 155.57 12.79
1.08 6.10 176.63 152.08 12.68
1.24 6.20 174.83 148.10 12.63
1.41 6.30 172.47 143.79 12.53
1.58 6.40 170.10 139.60 12.47
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 1.58 6.40 179.71 167.53 14.18
MIN: 0.22 5.50 170.10 139.60 12.47

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\Jacob Lundeen_006.drf
Run Title: cadillac cts 2003
Run Notes: intake

Run Date: 12/13/2005 11:27:57 AM

Jacob Lundeen_006.drf: 50.27 °F 29.92 in-Hg Humidity: 35 % SAE: 0.95 Average Gear Ratio: 109.23

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.24 4.40 N/A N/A 14.82
0.31 4.50 132.68 154.73 14.68
0.37 4.60 138.09 157.63 14.53
0.45 4.70 144.27 161.21 14.35
0.54 4.80 147.56 161.47 14.13
0.62 4.90 149.79 160.56 13.90
0.69 5.00 153.75 161.49 13.69
0.77 5.10 157.93 162.64 13.52
0.85 5.20 160.89 162.51 13.41
0.93 5.30 163.09 161.62 13.32
1.01 5.40 164.96 160.45 13.23
1.09 5.50 166.72 159.21 13.14
1.17 5.60 168.23 157.78 13.05
1.25 5.70 169.77 156.44 12.98
1.33 5.80 170.93 154.79 12.91
1.41 5.90 171.17 152.38 12.85
1.50 6.00 171.00 149.69 12.80
1.58 6.10 170.66 146.95 12.75
1.67 6.20 169.26 143.40 12.70
1.76 6.30 167.16 139.37 12.65
1.85 6.40 164.74 135.21 N/A
1.99 6.50 150.85 121.90 N/A
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 1.99 6.50 171.17 162.64 14.82
MIN: 0.24 4.40 132.68 121.90 12.65

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\Jacob Lundeen_004.drf
Run Title: cadillac cts 2003
Run Notes: intake

Run Date: 12/13/2005 11:25:05 AM

Jacob Lundeen_004.drf: 49.62 °F 29.94 in-Hg Humidity: 35 % SAE: 0.95 Average Gear Ratio: 109.24

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.27 4.50 N/A N/A 14.46
0.34 4.60 140.36 160.20 14.21
0.42 4.70 144.93 161.98 13.94
0.50 4.80 147.50 161.39 13.72
0.58 4.90 150.94 161.79 13.58
0.66 5.00 155.30 163.12 13.46
0.73 5.10 158.88 163.62 13.35
0.81 5.20 161.67 163.30 13.27
0.89 5.30 164.18 162.70 13.20
0.97 5.40 165.96 161.43 13.14
1.05 5.50 167.48 159.94 13.08
1.13 5.60 169.06 158.57 13.02
1.21 5.70 170.02 156.67 12.96
1.29 5.80 170.60 154.49 12.90
1.37 5.90 171.16 152.38 12.83
1.46 6.00 171.29 149.94 12.77
1.55 6.10 170.36 146.70 12.72
1.63 6.20 169.07 143.23 12.69
1.72 6.30 166.88 139.14 12.66
1.82 6.40 165.45 135.78 12.64
1.93 6.50 153.09 123.73 12.62
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 1.93 6.50 171.29 163.62 14.46
MIN: 0.27 4.50 140.36 123.73 12.62

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\Jacob Lundeen_003.drf
Run Title: cadillac cts 2003
Run Notes: intake

Run Date: 12/13/2005 11:23:45 AM

Jacob Lundeen_003.drf: 49.76 °F 29.94 in-Hg Humidity: 35 % SAE: 0.95 Average Gear Ratio: 78.23

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.25 4.60 151.87 173.38 14.23
0.38 4.70 153.58 171.61 13.88
0.48 4.80 154.48 169.06 13.64
0.58 4.90 157.45 168.75 13.50
0.71 5.00 164.33 172.62 13.38
0.89 5.10 158.97 163.74 13.23
1.03 5.20 160.35 161.94 13.14
1.19 5.30 162.82 161.35 13.05
1.33 5.40 166.62 162.06 12.98
1.48 5.50 167.85 160.28 12.91
1.64 5.60 169.95 159.39 12.84
1.80 5.70 169.88 156.54 12.78
1.95 5.80 170.44 154.34 12.75
2.12 5.90 169.96 151.30 12.71
2.28 6.00 170.06 148.87 12.65
2.45 6.10 168.88 145.41 12.56
2.62 6.20 166.90 141.38 12.50
2.81 6.30 164.32 137.00 12.47
2.99 6.40 161.10 132.21 12.43
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 2.99 6.40 170.44 173.38 14.23
MIN: 0.25 4.60 151.87 132.21 12.43
 

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I think they quote 30% to make the customer happy. 20% is a more common estimate for drivetrain loss. They may be factoring in dyno inefficiencies. I've heard that Mustang and Dynojet's will read differently (Mustangs are said to read lower). The V guys assume 17.5% on a Mustang dyno.

I also had quite a time figuring out where to hook up the inductance leads for the dyno, since we don't have plug wires. My guys took almost an hour to figure it out.

Pulls in third gear probably aren't an issue, as long as the gear ratio is factored into the SAE correction. I did back to back runs with the stock, TonyA, Volant, and K&N intakes. I found the Volant only added about 5, or so, RWHP. My car, with the Volant intake, stock tires, and the Borla was 200 RWHP, although I used a Mustang dyno. I'm not sure I believe the Borla adds 29 RWHP, so maybe the 30% loss is factoring some dyno inefficiencies.

171RWHP minus 5 RWHP (that I found the Volant adds) is 166 RWHP. 166/220 (flywheel HP stock) is 0.7545 or 24.5% drivetrain loss/dyno inefficiency on the Dynojet. 171/0.7545 is 226.6 flywheel HP.

Did you hit a speed limiter at 120mph in fourth (~5500 RPM)? I need to figure out why my car had it, since I have the 1SC (sport option).
 

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Ody told me 17.5-20% loss is normal.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The fastest my car got was 84mph, but they did say it would shift when they got close to redline.

And Ody, your numbers are off. 80% of 220 is 176. So if there is a 20% loss of power, then I actually lost power by adding the Volant Intake. 70% of 220 is 154, which would mean I had a 17hp increase off the intake.
 

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The Guys in the CTS-V forum are really nit-picky motorheads. I wonder how they cane up with 17.5?

I agree, 30% is to see you leave with a smile on your face.

Now that you have a base run, it will be interesting to see what results you might get with the addition of a dual exhaust.:D
 

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Cadiman1983 said:
And Ody, your numbers are off. 80% of 220 is 176. So if there is a 20% loss of power, then I actually lost power by adding the Volant Intake. 70% of 220 is 154, which would mean I had a 17hp increase off the intake.
That's why I subtracted out the 5 RWHP that I measured from the Volant, and back calculated the dyno/drivetrain losses at 24.5% in your case. Not 20% or 30%. In reality, dyno's are only good for testing relative changes for this very reason. Calculating drivetrain loss without a stock baseline run with the same car, same dyno, same atmospheric conditions, makes comparisons difficult. The only way to check the added HP from any mods is to isolate each mod and do a run (i.e., stock vs. Volant). Mine were all with the Borla, but everything but the intakes was kept constant (change one variable at a time). Now that you have a baseline with the Volant, make sure if you add an exhaust that you use the same dyno. That will make comparitive changes much more relevant.

Dyno runs are most accurate in whatever gear is 1:1 ratio. This is usually fourth. You only hit 85mph in fourth gear? It should have been around 145mph with 3.42:1 rear end gearing. I'm thinking they may have been all in 3rd gear, and maybe the correction factor for gearing is the 30% they quoted. 6000 RPM in third gear (1.6:1) with the 3.42 diff is 84.5mph with stock size tires. The automatic may have more losses than the manual, which may explain this as well (and why the V guys assume 17.5%).

The 3.2 peak HP is around 6000 RPM. If they didn't get that close to redline, that will definitly affect your numbers. Max torque is at 3400 RPM on these motors.

If I use 30% loss on my runs, my car (196RWHP with stock intake and Borla) put out 280 at the flywheel. I don't believe the Borla added 60 HP. Even using 20% loss, the 25 HP gain is way more than Borla quotes. Using the V assumption of 17.5% puts my car at a very realistic 238 at the flywheel, which is still 18HP over stock, just with the Borla.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
well, I might put the stock intake back in and get a real baseline.

The car was in fourth gear, I was standing right next to him as he did it. I only hit 85mph, and he went to redline at 6500rpms.
 

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Cadiman1983, It is still not clear to me whether you have an auto or manual trans? I think you have a auto, it seems like every dyno result I have seen with a auto CTS give erronious results. Anyone?
 

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okiwont said:
Cadiman1983, It is still not clear to me whether you have an auto or manual trans? I think you have a auto, it seems like every dyno result I have seen with a auto CTS give erronious results. Anyone?
I think SDMarine has an auto tranny. You have gear selections. You just don't want it to go into overdrive.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Mine is automatic, and the tech guy put it into fourth gear for the dyno pulls. Only problem was even with it in fourth, when it tacted out, it shifted.
 

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Cadiman1983 said:
Mine is automatic, and the tech guy put it into fourth gear for the dyno pulls. Only problem was even with it in fourth, when it tacted out, it shifted.
Hmm..not good. That means it was in OD. Why did Cadillac give us those gear selectors if you really can't control it.:(
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yeah, its kinda stupid, and it probably affected my number. But I did the math, and I found at 25% loss, I'm just shy of 230hp, which is were I should be with my intake. So I'm using that number from now on.
 

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The 3.2L is rated at 220 HP at 6000 RPM and 218 lb-ft at 3400 RPM stock.

The V is rated at 400 HP at 6000 RPM, and many guys are dyno'ing right at 330 RWHP stock, which is where they get 17.5% loss.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yeah, the 3.2L is 220HP. And the Volant is supposed to be 9-13hp gain if I remember right. So 10hp and 4 ft/lbs gain is about were my car should be.
 
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