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I understand what you're saying but there has to be a balance I think. Having a site where there's only pro-GM or pro-Cadillac posts is not only unrealistic, it's boring.
This place was not setup as a Cadillac pep-squad, it was setup as a place for people with a common interest in Cadillac to share ideas and information. Unfortunately, a large part of that information is going to be service-related stuff that is needed by people having problems with their cars. It's also proven to be useful to air customer concerns on forums such as this because OEMs are actually monitoring these sites nowadays. So whether you like hearing it or not, members griping about the product and services provided by the OEM can actually bring about real change. If the OEM isn't constantly bombarded by comments and concerns about product issues, they will not have any incentive to ever fix anything. The squeaky wheel does in fact get the grease.
As for the thread(s) about the new STS-V, I for one have been trying to keep pointing out the good stuff about the car (I know it's hard to believe but it's true). Unfortunately it IS rather easy for some people to take a rather negative view of a car based solely on a single (or couple) detail(s). In the case of the STS-V, I think the only apparent drawback to the car is the engine's inability to provide the necessary grunt to compete head to head with the supposed competition. Now I HAVE heard there's another new article out from another publication that is less glowing than the Autoweek article I mentioned in the thread in question. When I read it, I'll comment on it.
I hope this place doesn't adopt an attitude of "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" with respect to Cadillacs, because if it does, the true value of the place will be lost IMO.
 

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Wow! Some great posts there.

ewill3rd,
I, like you are from the technical end of the business. I realize how mechanics can get seriously down on cars over the years, especially flat-rate dealer techs IMO. You make some great points but I must disagree with you on at least one point. I think it IS logical for the consumer to expect a better quality product when being charged a premium price for it. I think this is especially true with "premium" type vehicles like Cadillac. I realize that much of a Cadillac is really no better than a Chevy but there ARE many things that are sufficiently improved through both engineering and upgraded materials that the consumer has every reason to assume that a Cadillac is NOT merely a tarted-up Chevy. "Tarted-up" specifically referring to more options as you say. And when you ARE paying a premium for a premium brand, I feel you should get not only your money's worth with respect to the product but an increased level of customer service. the OEMs seem to realize this, they sure market the products in such a way to promote the increased levels at least.

JoeKr,
Great post man. Some interesting thoughts.

HotRodSaint,
Damn man! You "HATE all Cadillacs after 1967 except for the '94-'96 Fleetwood and CTS/CTS-V"? That severely limits the content here for you huh? I too, am no fan of any of the FWD Cadillacs but there ARE a few I kind of liked the styling of at least. I liked the mid-80's Eldo and Seville, I liked the first gen Seville too actually. And I liked most if not all of the RWD cars up until the last in '96. Finally, I 90% like the CTS-V. Love the performance, semi-like the exterior, don't much care for the interior.
 

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ewill3rd said:
I find myself wondering what model I would buy if I actually had the funds to do it. I live vicariously through all the cars I work on ;)
I like driving almost all of them. If I had an unlimited bank account I would lean towards the STS. I like the CTS but the STS has more room.
The DTS is a nice car but it's a little on the big side for me.
My wife dreams of owning an Escalade but she's happy with her Dodge Ram for now.
Ya know, that's the second time you mentioned money. You make it sound like a dealer tech is poor. Not sure about what you do at the dealer you're at or how long you've been there but I know dealer A-techs that are bringing home some SERIOUS money.
 

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ewill3rd said:
Kat,
I make a fair salary, but there are no rewards in this business for an A tech that does the kind of work I do.
I think it's a fair wage for what I do in this area but It's a 4 dollar an hour cut in pay from what I was making in California. The cost of living is a bit lower here except for housing. I am not "poor" per se, but I do have a very expensive home and my Wife is a PhD who earns a salary almost twice mine and it's her second year out of college. I have been in this trade for about 12 years. Most of what I do is electrical work and probably 80 percent of what I do is warranty work on new cars. Mostly stuff that nobody else in the dealership wants to do. GM does not reward techs with high pay for finding problems like the ones I work on. At best doing what I normally do I can get paid my 40 hours at my pay rate. There are guys swapping out pistons, rebuilding transmissions and changing engines that are making over 100 hours in a week, but my back can't handle that kind of work, plus I really don't like it.
If I traded my Trailblazer in and went a little deeper in debt I could probably honestly afford the payments but I don't want to encourage myself to do that because it would make me feel even more poor. Apart from my mortgage and 2 car payments (that are almost paid off) I really don't have much debt. I pay my credit cards off every month and have no vices except for buying DVDs (my current collection contains over 400 disks in all, some are box sets but it's about 200 titles)... I had to cut myself back to one a month because it was costing a lot. Maybe that would all change if people had some respect for the folks working on their cars instead of jumping in our faces and tell us how much we suck right out of the gate. I mean these cars are more complicated than the craft that put man on the moon but I am supposed to be spot on 100% of the time the first time every time. I try my best but there are still problems out there that GM engineers can't even solve, I seem to be responsible for that according to the general public as well. On top of that the honest guys get to earn a reputation from the few dishonest ones on national TV and then try to explain to someone why our shop labor rate is what it is. It's such a great business to be in....
Anyway.... enough about that.
I do agree that paying a premium price for a premium car, you should expect a higher degree of quality, and I didn't mean to say that Cadi doesn't care more about quality than Chevy does, what I really intended to say was that it's not as if less expensive carline carmakers don't care about quality as much.
Most of the cost, I think, is because of superior design and higher grade materials. I mean a luxury or performance car costs more in R&D and in production. It makes sense to expect more from a higher priced car in the way of quality, but I think a lot of people take it to an extreme.
I wish I got paid to hear people tell me how much they paid for their car every time they bring it in with something wrong with it.
I don't get a dime when our sales department sells a car and I respect the fact that you paid more for it, but whether you paid 1,000 dollars or 85,000dollars doesn't really matter to me, I treat people the same because when I am working on their cars, I get paid the same.
If I am working on a Catera or an XLR all I see is parts and wires. I treat them all with respect because they are not mine and my customers are entrusting me with them to get them fixed.
Sorry for the confusion of my previous remarks. I hope that makes it more clear.
Anybody who wants to talk to my boss about giving me a raise... most of you already know who he is... knock yourselves out.... :D
;)
I feel for you man. I really do. I can even relate to your feelings completely. To be honest, I've had it worse. Try being the tech AND the owner of the shop. I got it no matter what. That's why I can honestly tell you that I understand your feelings. 20 years at the the fleet followed by having my own shop wore me down too.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad mechanics out there that have been conspiring for years to give us good guys a bad rep. I've written articles in magazines about that very subject, it pains me so much. I hate that auto mechanics are usually bearly a step up from a used car salesman as far as average public perception of competence and honesty.
My problem is I'm also on the other side of the fence quite often. I've bought a lot of new vehicles over the years and if you think it's bad on the mechanic's side of the fence, try being a professional tech on the BUYER's side of the fence. You want to talk about the ultimate in frustration?!
I can't tell you the crap that I've been told by mechanics, shop foremen, service writers, and service managers with respect to vehicles I've taken in for warranty repairs. the CRAP they've tried to pull on me is relentless.
One time, the only way I got a dealership to fix my car was to offer the service manager the phone number of the GM engineer who designed the component we were fighting about! I've had some virtual knock-down drag em out's with dealership people over the years. THAT's what bothers me about the OEMs I write about most. There are problems that are obvious to the trained eye yet they try to feighn ignorance of them to your face. It's unacceptable to me for a manufacturer to knowingly force consumers into accepting known flaws as being acceptable.
 

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Randy_W said:
It's about those that bash on every thread and never provide anything constructive.
I would agree that anyone who only offers negative stuff is probably not an asset to this forum. For the most part, I try to avoid those people on forums, I generally end up in a fight with them anyway, and that's seldom useful to anyone.
 

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I think what this country is going through was inevitable. It's not just the auto industry, it's all over. As we as a country so out-distanced the rest of the world that our standard of living caused us to not be able to support ourselves. We have become a service industry country that farms out most everything else. Why? Because everybody thinks they are too good to do any type of manual labor. Ask a parent of a high school kid what they want their kid(s) to do after graduation and what do you hear? College, then off to some high-paying white-collar job. How many say "I hope my kid joins the military", or " I hope my kid goes to a trade school"? Not many I bet. We have a rather snobbish view of many careers. My kid be an auto mechanic? God I HOPE not. My kid learn how to build a bridge? NOT!
Manufacturing is an endangered species in this country folks and THAT is what is killing the auto industry surer than anything IMO.
It's just plain too costly to source much here anymore. It was inevitable that we would eventually price ourselves out of the game.
 
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