Cadillac Owners Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 98 Posts

·
Banned
1995 ETC, 75 Deville, Cad500 powered 73 Apollo, 94 Mark VIII
Joined
·
7,971 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well, do you?

'The STS-V sucks'
'The northstar is a piece of crap'
'OMG this Hyundai is AWESOME'
'GM can't make a decent car'
'OMG this Honda is AWESOME'
'GM is gonna die and Toyota is gonna pick over the carcass'

That's what I'm hearing from you all.

Do any of you actually give a shit about Cadillacs? When I showed up in 03, people here did. What the hell happened?
 

·
Registered
'87 Jeep, '10 Thruxton, '00 Duc 748, '01 748R (853cc)
Joined
·
3,703 Posts
You didn't here any of that shit from me, I'll tell you that much. Whoever said the STS-V sucks should be banned. They just started production and people here are already bad mouthing it...WTF. Show me this thread where it is mentioned so I can spout hostile remarks at this person! I demand justice.
 

·
Registered
Unicycle
Joined
·
11,009 Posts
Dave, you are right... all this anti-Cadillac and anti-GM is really starting to take a toll... we used to be able to talk openly about it, now... just try to mention a GM product that is good....

the GM bashing really needs to stop, if you don't like GM and like Hyundai/Honda/Toyota whatever more, then simply leave... leave this site and leave us alone and go join a place that shares those opinions.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
Night Wolf, I've been saying that for a long time. It's one thing to have true fans and owners talk about the good and bad points, but it sucks to have a bunch of trolls as members, that only hang around to use every chance to bad mouth GM and Cadillac. We could all rattle off their user names like a who's who of pains in the ass. Some are very young while others should know better.
As a side note, there was one guy on here that used every chance to bash Caddy, while singing the praises of BMW at every turn. I accidentally found him on a BMW forum while looking for info, one day. I started giving him a dose of his own crap by posting threads about recalls and repair costs about his BMW model. In other words I was Troll on his forum. We soon came to an agreement, I never go to his forum and he never comes here anymore.:thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,471 Posts
I understand what you're saying but there has to be a balance I think. Having a site where there's only pro-GM or pro-Cadillac posts is not only unrealistic, it's boring.
This place was not setup as a Cadillac pep-squad, it was setup as a place for people with a common interest in Cadillac to share ideas and information. Unfortunately, a large part of that information is going to be service-related stuff that is needed by people having problems with their cars. It's also proven to be useful to air customer concerns on forums such as this because OEMs are actually monitoring these sites nowadays. So whether you like hearing it or not, members griping about the product and services provided by the OEM can actually bring about real change. If the OEM isn't constantly bombarded by comments and concerns about product issues, they will not have any incentive to ever fix anything. The squeaky wheel does in fact get the grease.
As for the thread(s) about the new STS-V, I for one have been trying to keep pointing out the good stuff about the car (I know it's hard to believe but it's true). Unfortunately it IS rather easy for some people to take a rather negative view of a car based solely on a single (or couple) detail(s). In the case of the STS-V, I think the only apparent drawback to the car is the engine's inability to provide the necessary grunt to compete head to head with the supposed competition. Now I HAVE heard there's another new article out from another publication that is less glowing than the Autoweek article I mentioned in the thread in question. When I read it, I'll comment on it.
I hope this place doesn't adopt an attitude of "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" with respect to Cadillacs, because if it does, the true value of the place will be lost IMO.
 

·
Cadillac Technician
none
Joined
·
11,051 Posts
Well being new here and all...

I hear stuff about GM and Cadi bashing all day every day.
It seems so sad to me that people don't understand the nature of the automotive business. People base their opinions about an entire car company based on a few problems that they have with one car. As a technician I can tell you that no car is perfect and yes some systems are prone to failure. Carmakers do the best they can to make sure that any production problems are addressed and that their customers are satisfied.
There are so many of these "independent one-car studies" that there is no way you can try to defend carmakers in each case. Being behind the wrenches would give you the impression that ANY car out there is junk. Some people seem to think that Euro carmaker chains don't have any technicians, but they sure do, those guys live pretty good too.

My personal opinion is that GM does have some problems overall, but not really with the product. The REAL problem is that most people's expectation of what a car is has changed so much over the years that I don't believe any automaker can meet it.

I think people like to base an opinion on weak data and run with it, that's what I see going on here. I don't have an issue with dissenting opinions, just gross generalization. The really sad part is that GM outsources almost all it's parts. They get bids from manufacturers to assemble modules or other components, then the assembly plants put it all together. Then because of a manufacturing issue from one subcontractor people run around condeming the whole corporation. Seems pretty silly.

That's like saying that Wal Mart sucks because you bought a bad extention cord there once.

I also hear a lot of shouting about "how much" people paid for their cars, like that makes a difference in the quality. What you are really paying for is features. The components in many cases are still the same, but the packaging is different. It's become a game of gadgets, you want more, you pay more. That doesn't mean that they are impervious to failure, quite the opposite, it just means there are MORE OF THEM. That compounds the problem actually. Where is the logic in assuming that Chevrolet doesn't care about their products so they push junk out the door, and Cadillac does care so they try harder? It's all the same really. The problem is that the contractors take the GM engineers specifications, builds them at the bottom end, cuts corners to save money, and then ships the parts to GM to install on their cars so that GM can take the blame. The process is the problem and the blame for that does lie on the manufacturer.

At least that's my personal opinion on the whole subject, take it or leave it.

As for members coming here to bash Cadillacs and GM cars, who cares?
What kind of retard is going to spend money on a car and then come here to confess to the world how stupid they think they are? I mean THEY bought the car and THEY are the ones complaining about it. An intelligent person would sell the car, buy what they want and go to that forum and talk about how much they love their non-GM car. Wouldn't they?
 

·
Registered
1999 STS - diamond white
Joined
·
5,229 Posts
ewill3rd said:
As for members coming here to bash Cadillacs and GM cars, who cares?
What kind of retard is going to spend money on a car and then come here to confess to the world how stupid they think they are? I mean THEY bought the car and THEY are the ones complaining about it. An intelligent person would sell the car, buy what they want and go to that forum and talk about how much they love their non-GM car. Wouldn't they?
:yeah: That's the right attitude. If people here would just ignore the inflammatory comments or pin them down to a specific problem we could benefit from, the anxiety level would drop. In other words, don't stoop to the level of the one slamming Caddy's, rise above it.
 

·
Registered
03 Escalade, 06 SRX
Joined
·
6,888 Posts
I LOVE MY CADILLAC!!! I have nothing but good things to say about it. I have had some small problems, but nothing that couldn't be repaired. I find my customer service from my dealership is fantastic. For those people who don't like Cadillac or GM I think it is OK to voice an opinion, but to ruin threads or continue bashing is uncalled for.
 

·
Registered
01 frontier , 89 Shelby CSX vnt
Joined
·
14,607 Posts
while my cadillac has spent the beatter part of 4 days kicking my lilly ass ...i still like it , and im still "the cadillac man" to everyone that knows me ....

but i will continue to curse at the GM Dept of Sharp Objects who worked overtime on the 94 deville .....I will also curse at GM over not giving me one inch more clearace between the balancer and fender .....

guys , just remeber , we have a select few who enjoy nothing more than stiring the pot ....
 

·
Registered
Black the Darkside
Joined
·
22,415 Posts
I LOVE MY '04 CADILLAC. IT'S MY SECOND ONE. MY NEXT ONE WILL BE A CADILLAC.
We need the rep points back so we can squash the NaySayer back into Riceland. I don't know why they meddle in the Forum. I mean it's a Cadillac Forum. God if I hated Cadillac I wouldn't be wasting my friggin' time here. These people need to find another life.:want:
 

·
Registered
09 CTS 3.6l SFI 6MT
Joined
·
146 Posts
Ewill,
My compliments on a well thought-out position.

To the original poster - I believe most on this site are Cadillac supporters. But, one cannot deny the issues facing GM as a corporation.

Cadillac is a great success story that is still being written. The turnaround in the Cadillac brand within a few years, is just short of a miracle.

The scope (company, brand, vehicle) of the discussion is where there may be some misunderstanding.

GM
They are in financial crisis that is having an effect on the image farther down the chain. Some issues are structural and created by previous management administrations based on wage and benefit packages given to all employees, not just UAW or management, that are not sustainable. You can almost say that GM is a large social program. It is not a wealth creating business. In fact, only 4car companies actually create wealth. You can guess who they are.

One of the primary tenets of capitalism is growth. When your company is shrinking, too much time is spent on internal (right-sizing) efforts and not enough on creating, manufacturing, and selling the product. This is not unique to GM.

Many of the issues are self-inflicted. I believe a major wound was when the purchasing czar, Ignacio Lopez, started ripping up supplier agreements back in the 90s and set up the current situation where many of the suppliers are going bankrupt. To echo your sentiments - GM pays rock bottom prices for parts/subsystems. What kind of value do you think they are getting from many of their suppliers? GM consistently ranks at the bottom by their suppliers. As a result, they donot get the best efforts from their supply base. Now, I have spent my career selling to the auto industry, so my perspective is definitely biased.

Also, the history over the last 20 years is to homogenize the brands. Due to the loss of market share, it is only logical that specific brand segments would overlap with each other, creating redundancy. In reality, GM (and other large manufacturers) only really need three brands at a maximum - bottom, middle, and top. I know... I know - exotics. I guess that is a 4th. But one of the aspects about exotics is that they donot want to be associated with a macro-brands. It loses its panache (sp?)

Cadillac - The current GM success story
I cannot believe this brand has been totally turned around. Four years ago did anyone ever say Cadillac and Sport Sedan in the same article - let alone, sing their praises. Quality, performance, prestige has been restored. Are there issues, you bet. But, the last thing you want to be in the high-end segment is everything to everybody. That is the goal of the lesser, volume brands. My fear is that GM will do to it what they did to Saturn - start something positive then milk the hell out of it and consume the brand equiity they have created. Another words, my largest fear is overproduction. By making a product that exceeds demand, they can keep the selling price higher, profits higher, and resale higher. GM management will want to mine it for the quick sales figures.

GM really did a great job in deciding the vision of what the brand should do to address the need of a well defined demographic and took the risk with design to get attention. You can say alot (and much was negative) when the "Art & Science" design started with the CTS- but it sure got attention. Now, it is the most identifiable body style to brand out there, maybe with the exception of BMW.

Now, GM needs to create that same vision/identity to the other brands, There are indications that this taking place.

Vehicles
There is no need to go into details here, that is what the forum is here for. But, my CTS is the first car that I am actually proud to own since my '76 Camaro. It is very simple - it is the first car that I have had since then that is FUN TO DRIVE that I can actually use for business. Now, other vehicles and other vehicle brands offer the same image - but the CTS has unique styling that I like, powertrain requirement (manual), excellent quality, and it is a US based company.

In any segment, Best-in-Class = high profits. The trick is figuring the class you want to sell to, detemine what has to be delivered, and then deliver it. And one part of the equation is the dealership (selling/buying/maintenance) experience and it appears that Cadillac may need to improve this area based on my personal experience and posts by others.

General Comments:
I own non-GM vehicles for other members of the family. One is a Saturn and couple of Japanese vehicles. Though I have only owned US vehicles up to the last three years, I am impressed with what we have purchased from a Japanese brand. The fact is that car companies are global. The US based companies have the highest legacy costs in the world. It is these legacy costs that make them uncompetitive. But, this is a whole other discussion.

Just my thoughts....

Regards,
JoeKr
 

·
Banned
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
Joined
·
7,237 Posts
I hate all Cadillacs made after 1967 except for the '94-'96 Fleetwood and CTS/CTS-V!! 1968 is when Cadillac started it's long decline...

Well, there are exceptions. I like the 1st and 2nd gen Seville. I like the late '70's, early '80's Eldorado. And Coupe De Villes of any year are still ok, even if some years lacked classic styling.

BUT...when Cadillac stopped making big cars for old men they ceased to be Cadillac. Now, more than ever, they are just a division of GM. (And what's with this FWD crap anyway? Deviles/DTS are supposed to be big and RWD!!)

Give me a big RWD Cadillac with a big motor and make it black!!

I also think GM's management is screwed up and too focused on short term stock market value. And it has been for much too long. But Honda, Toyota or Nissan are no better at giving me the car I want.

Only the Australian divisions of GM and Ford make what I want. And damn it, I don't want to have to move to Australia to get a decent American car!!!

Chrysler comes close though, maybe their next gen will hit the nail on the head for me.

I want American companies to make American cars for Americans. If I wanted a me too Japanese car, I'd buy Hyundai. If I wanted a me too European car, I'd buy a Lexus.

So GM start being an American car company for Americans and leave the cop catting to those companies that have no heritage!! Because everything you copy, is an old boring Japanese car.

I mean really, does anyone think the new Impala is cutting edge in design? The Accord debuted that look 5 years ago!!!
 

·
Registered
NONE
Joined
·
1,339 Posts
Well, I drive a 2000 model STS to work everyday in heavy city traffic.
The computer is reporting 10mpg

I pay $6.00 a gallon.

I wouldn't be driving it if I didn't love it!
 

·
Registered
09 CTS 3.6l SFI 6MT
Joined
·
146 Posts
There are two primary groups of Cadillac buyers - the oldtimers that like the land yachts and the new demo that is more performance driven. The largest differences are interior room and ride/suspension.

The US land yacht market segment was effectively taken over by the high-end SUV market. Big. powerful, and roomy.

Luv my CTS!

JoeKr
 

·
Cadillac Technician
none
Joined
·
11,051 Posts
I find myself wondering what model I would buy if I actually had the funds to do it. I live vicariously through all the cars I work on ;)

I like driving almost all of them. If I had an unlimited bank account I would lean towards the STS. I like the CTS but the STS has more room.
The DTS is a nice car but it's a little on the big side for me.
My wife dreams of owning an Escalade but she's happy with her Dodge Ram for now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,471 Posts
Wow! Some great posts there.

ewill3rd,
I, like you are from the technical end of the business. I realize how mechanics can get seriously down on cars over the years, especially flat-rate dealer techs IMO. You make some great points but I must disagree with you on at least one point. I think it IS logical for the consumer to expect a better quality product when being charged a premium price for it. I think this is especially true with "premium" type vehicles like Cadillac. I realize that much of a Cadillac is really no better than a Chevy but there ARE many things that are sufficiently improved through both engineering and upgraded materials that the consumer has every reason to assume that a Cadillac is NOT merely a tarted-up Chevy. "Tarted-up" specifically referring to more options as you say. And when you ARE paying a premium for a premium brand, I feel you should get not only your money's worth with respect to the product but an increased level of customer service. the OEMs seem to realize this, they sure market the products in such a way to promote the increased levels at least.

JoeKr,
Great post man. Some interesting thoughts.

HotRodSaint,
Damn man! You "HATE all Cadillacs after 1967 except for the '94-'96 Fleetwood and CTS/CTS-V"? That severely limits the content here for you huh? I too, am no fan of any of the FWD Cadillacs but there ARE a few I kind of liked the styling of at least. I liked the mid-80's Eldo and Seville, I liked the first gen Seville too actually. And I liked most if not all of the RWD cars up until the last in '96. Finally, I 90% like the CTS-V. Love the performance, semi-like the exterior, don't much care for the interior.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,471 Posts
ewill3rd said:
I find myself wondering what model I would buy if I actually had the funds to do it. I live vicariously through all the cars I work on ;)
I like driving almost all of them. If I had an unlimited bank account I would lean towards the STS. I like the CTS but the STS has more room.
The DTS is a nice car but it's a little on the big side for me.
My wife dreams of owning an Escalade but she's happy with her Dodge Ram for now.
Ya know, that's the second time you mentioned money. You make it sound like a dealer tech is poor. Not sure about what you do at the dealer you're at or how long you've been there but I know dealer A-techs that are bringing home some SERIOUS money.
 
1 - 20 of 98 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top