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I had an enlightenment today. Do you think that if the xlr-v and sts-v got our motors (ls6/ls2) rather than the northstars....that they woulda sold waaaaaaaay more? And the sts-v and xlr-v would have many more enthusiasts/have more collectibility/ and exhibit a rare setup that many collectors seek? Why do you think GM decided not to have the entire V lineup be ls powered? they coulda supercharged them just as easily if that was a "must" in the books. Sorry if this is a rant/off topic....I was just doing some thinking.....I may of bought the xlr-v instead of the cts-v had they had the same engines/suspension.
 

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18 ATS-V, 04 CTS-V, 09 CTS, 04 CTS
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I think they just dont sell as well because of the price.
 

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2015 BMUU 335i MSport, 2006 STS-V--2005 CTS-V ( traded in)
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XLR-V nice car, wouldn't mind driving one, but 100K - Not worth it, other cars would come first.

STS-V once again nice car, price new, just a bit much. If they could put it at 65K, it would sell better, new. Slightly used pricing seems to be where they sell the best.

None of that has to do with what's under the hood. The Supercharged N* is fine for those cars, although it would have been nicer if the STS-V would have been a little north of 500HP stock and the 06 had the HUD available in the normal STS.

If/when the 09 CTS-V comes out and has 515HP+ with an auto transmission option, the other cars in the V series will become history.
 

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Good point, bleeeeeeeee. I think I agree with the other guys that price kinda puts these too far up there. You could say that the S/C N* caused some of that pricing, too.

I think we're so-o-o lucky to have an LS engine. We are typically guys of some means (some with a lot of means :worship:) and can afford to mod a car. And, this car is simply just great to mod, especially the motor.

To turn your point around, if the CTS-V had come with a N*, we probably all be here talkin' right now.
 

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You have to remember a few points,

The STS-v and XLR-v are focused to another type of buyer...The STS-v has the 4.4Sc engine for the sole purpose of being a luxury car that has the potential to haul ass, and yet the dependablity to run everyday and not drink ample gas then it has to. Believe it or not but the STS-v is for a more mature buyer group then the CTS-v
The XLR-v is desined for those rich farts, that have too much money...and the desire to have a car that looks like it can fly, or evade radar, still workin on that (evadin Radar Detectors arent always allowed, so we have to find ut legal ways to obsorb the radar so they never get out actual speed...)

Demographics, is key and marketing is the ability to fool your customer into buying your product, even though they might not even need it, IE pet rocks, buyin real estate on the moon, or even a star...PLEASE, the star isnt there anymore, and i wonder how was daft enough to buy our sun too...
 

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JimmyH
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Oddly enough I was talking to my friend earlier who said he would have bought the XLR-V if it would have come with an LS7. He loves the styling but he also likes to be able to mod an engine. And he doesn't like superchargers, N/A motors all the way. He picks up his new Z06 in a few months.

That isn't the first time I have heard it either.

XLR= S/CN*
XLR-V= LS7

But 23k dollars more for 62 more hp doesn't seem like a good idea...

I think the STS-V has a good engine. But like said, 65k and 500hp would be perfect. Still though, the cars are priced a lot cheaper than their competition and deliver similar performance.
 

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07 SRX V8 AWD Diamond White Sport Edition & 08 C6 LS3/418ci
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XLR-V nice car, wouldn't mind driving one, but 100K - Not worth it, other cars would come first.

STS-V once again nice car, price new, just a bit much. If they could put it at 65K, it would sell better, new. Slightly used pricing seems to be where they sell the best.

None of that has to do with what's under the hood. The Supercharged N* is fine for those cars, although it would have been nicer if the STS-V would have been a little north of 500HP stock and the 06 had the HUD available in the normal STS.

If/when the 09 CTS-V comes out and has 515HP+ with an auto transmission option, the other cars in the V series will become history.[/quote]
Well with that said; most would agree that the general consensus is that the next CTSV will have to have a minimum of 500+ FWHP to compete with it's intended target....that being the BMW M5.

With that said, it appears that there are only two GM engines in the current arsenol that with some tweaking are capable of producing what will probably be a 550 FWHP Motor.

1. The new LS3 with a Magnuson/Eaton type supercharger.

2. A high output LS7 427 motor

When you look at the current V series of automobiles; the CTSV, STSV and XLRV....the only red-haired stepchild that lacks a supercharger and automatic transmission is the CTSV.

My guess would be that the new CTSV will feature the new LS3 engine producing 430 FWHP and a Magnuson/Eaton type supercharger sitting on top of the intake producing another 120 FWHP for a total of 550 FWHP

This type of set-up would create some consistency in the V line of automobiles with all 3 vehicles being supercharged.

Any type of Northstar configuration will not fit within the confines of the CTSV engine bay and I believe that the LS7 engine with its dry sump oil system would be cost prohibitive in trying to price this car at what is projected at $60k.

Would anyone like to ring in on there thoughts?

Also...how many think the new CTSV will feature an automatic tiptronic type transmission?[/COL
OR]
 

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'05 CTS-V, '00 SLS, 98 SLS, 89 Eldo, '80 Eldo
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NO AUTO!!! Then any chump can get one.
Love the paddle shift, but stick is what separates the men from the boys.
 

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2012 CTS-V Sedan, 2011 CTS Coupe, 2010 Ford Raptor
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NO AUTO!!! Then any chump can get one.
Love the paddle shift, but stick is what separates the men from the boys.
True! I love it that even some of my guy friends cant drive it. No one but me! Oh, and a few Valet guys, but after my last run in with catching them driving my car around i will always watch them park it then get the keys. Don't care if i have to give them some extra cash...i WILL be holding my keys!
 

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Yes, if XLR-V had a LS7 and 6MT it would have sold way better.
GM definetly screwed themselves by targeting only the soft old rich buyers.

They needed to position the car for the upper end of the hard core performance car buyers.
The guys who want a classy car that can still stomp on Vipers & Vettes.

It would have been a must-have for me if it had an LS7 and 6MT.
Could you imagine the mod potential of that and how much fun your kills would be?
Let's not forget how much extra play you would get from the ladies. :D
 

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I think that with the new CTS-V packing a 550+ SC LS3, Cadillac will have no choice but to use the same engine with perhaps a few more horses on the next gen STS-V and XLR-V. How could they justify selling the STS-V for 75k if it has almost a 100 hp less than the CTS-V which presumably will be less expensive? And it's clear that the Northstar is pretty much tapped out even at 500 HP, and would still have considerably less torque than the SC LS3.
Plus there is now a six speed auto for the LS engines. Cadillac should call these engines the LS-Vs and simply adjust the HP for each model as Mercedes did for the old AMG 5.5L SC engines, they were in everything from the C class to the S class in different states of tune.
 

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I would agree that GM is not marketing these cars as mass production performance cars.
They are luxury cars for an older crowd with money who want a little more pep than the base models.
I don't think they are trying to make a hot car to outsell the base models.
In fact that would screw them on CAFE.

The Z06 is marketed to the raw power crowd. Apart from the base frame and chassis, the XLR and Corvette are barely comparable if you ask me. You can tell by looking at each they are made for different groups of people.
 

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NO AUTO!!! Then any chump can get one.
Love the paddle shift, but stick is what separates the men from the boys.

That's a short sighted opinion IMO. Maybe if the car had an auto and sold more, GM would be willing to pony up and fix some of the known major issues on the early cars.

I'm not saying that the stick isn't the way to go on these cars, I'm just saying that if people want an auto, give them an auto and sell a few more units to make servicing easier, then everyone is happy.
 

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Putting an automatic in it doesn't mean it will be open to a broader group of folks necessarily.
Many entry level cars for years have traditionally come with a standard transmission.
My wife learned to drive an old Chevy Nova with manual steering and three on the tree.... and she was born with only one hand!
Did she like it? No, but it was what she had.

In a way I see your point, but I also don't.... if that makes any sense.
 

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I would agree that GM is not marketing these cars as mass production performance cars.
They are luxury cars for an older crowd with money who want a little more pep than the base models.
I don't think they are trying to make a hot car to outsell the base models.
In fact that would screw them on CAFE.

The Z06 is marketed to the raw power crowd. Apart from the base frame and chassis, the XLR and Corvette are barely comparable if you ask me. You can tell by looking at each they are made for different groups of people.
Bill...I agree completely. The STS-V and XLR-V are marketed as "performance luxury cars" for primarily an "older crowd". The features and amenities that have appeared in these two particular vehicles such as HUD and heated/cooled seats and built in seat speakers etc reflect that to a degree.

The base Northstar engine has appeared numerous times on Wards Top 10 Best Engines. Decreasing the displacement to 4.4 liters, supercharging it and having it "hand built" adds to the "performance luxury" moniker that has always been reserved for the likes of Mercede's AMG brand.

The CTS-V when you take away the "V performance factor" is still considered to be an "entry level" luxury model. The V factor in the CTS has always been about "brute performance".......Andy Pilgrim etc, etc.

I think the common denominator however moving forward with the CTSV is going to be constraining manufacturing costs and I forsee that ruling out the LS7 engine.

I believe that going forward; all V models will share the common denominator in that they will be supercharged.

The current LS3 Corvette is producing 430 N/A FWHP. Rumor has it that this same power mill will appear in the 2009 Camaro as well. In fact, the new Camaro borrows many of its chassis components from the shortened STS zeta platform.

Pictured below is the current Corvette with the new 430 FWHP LS3 engine. Notice the supercharged mounted intercooler on this GM test mule for what will be the 2009 LS3 supercharged Corvette SS.

My money would be on the table saying that the new CTSV will feature an LS3 supercharged engine producing 550 FWHP.

2009 LS3 Corvette with Supercharger.jpg
 

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I would agree that GM is not marketing these cars as mass production performance cars.
They are luxury cars for an older crowd with money who want a little more pep than the base models.
I don't think they are trying to make a hot car to outsell the base models.
In fact that would screw them on CAFE.

The Z06 is marketed to the raw power crowd. Apart from the base frame and chassis, the XLR and Corvette are barely comparable if you ask me. You can tell by looking at each they are made for different groups of people.
Old, rich men have always been Caddy's targeted market. I just can not see what the XLR-V offers to warrant a $100K price tag. If it isn't power and performance than what? There are plenty of shiny convertables out there if you just want wind in your bad toupee.
 

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I think they key there, wooderson, is that it is still a Cadillac. There are a lot of die hard Caddy lovers out there as you can tell by looking at this board. I think it is more than just having a shiny sportscar, they are paying for the features and the name.
I sometimes forget that there aren't that many production cars around as compared to other models because we have a pretty high concentration of them in this area.

As a 6 year Corvette tech I am familiar with a lot of customers from both sides of the Y car aisle.
I can see the differences and the similarities in the owners.

I have several XLR-V owners that bring their cars to me regularly. None have complained about the price and they all love them. An early production car, the first one we sold, had a few problems but the guy didn't care, he just wanted it to be right and has been very patient while I worked out the few issues he had.
 
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