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Totally agree about the 6.2 being outdated. My only guess is cost was starting to creep beyond desired price point as is and they figured most buyers aren't really car enthusiasts that are even going to notice the difference anyway. I tested a navigator as well and had higher hopes for that engine but would still take it over the 6.2. I'm sure gearing has a lot to do with it but that same engine is a different experience in a Raptor lol.
 

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We had a diesel GL a few years ago which was rated with more torque than the gas TTV6 counterpart. If you are easy on the pedal you will not notice a difference but once you want to get a jump off a light or pass someone when moving you really miss the extra power. And no, a diesel does NOT pass better at highway speeds. I went on a road trip with my buddy and our families and he had the same year GL but with the gas TT V6. While I crushed him gas mileage wise it was comical how faster he was on the highway. Now I know it's a different make but a diesel is a diesel.

One of the main reasons I didn't get a 6th Escalade and went with a Nav is the engine. The 6.2 is unbecoming in a $100k truck. It's rough at idle and sounds like it will grenade any second when pushing it hard. I was hoping GM would go the Nav's route and do a nice 3.5L TTV6 pushing 500hp/550tq. That would be the best of both worlds. Great gas mileage (I average 22mpg in my extended Nav at 75mph, at that speed my ESV would get 17) very smooth and refined and gobs of low torque AND power. The engine just pulls and pulls and sounds great in the process. Hopefully the 6.2L is just a bandaid and GM is working on a better drivetrain but to fully redesign an all new truck and go with the same 14 year old engine is beyond me.

But back to diesel. One major thing no one talks about is refueling. I found that to be the biggest damn problem. First you have to learn which stations have a diesel pump and then you have to get in line for that one diesel pump at the station. God forbid you pull up to the one damn pump and the twit in a Jetta or even a regular gas car went inside to get some snacks, take a dump or line up the next streetwalker for the evening. Or maybe it's a landscaping truck filling up 100 gallons in the truck and (10) 5 gallon cans. By the time you are done you could have charged up a Tesla. The other issue is the pumps are dirty as hell, so bring disposable gloves.

In summary- Diesels get great mpg, are loud, have torque but are not magic unicorns and suck at refilling. Primary targeted buyers- mpg at all costs and those that tow.
What if I told you my escalade is used primarily for off road agricultural purposes and that this solves a lot of the refueling issues? :D
 

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2019 CT6 Blackwing, 2014 CTS-V Sport,1987 Buick Grand National,1972 Pontiac,2018 Ram megacab stick
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I just want to point out that the greatest diesel engine of all time,the 5.9 cummins, had similar power to the engine they are putting in the Escalade. These ridiculous torque wars the big 3 have been waging have went full retard. Very few customers will ever need all that power. I'm one of them. I have a megacab ram with 6.7 cummins and pull a 15000 pound camper and even in the rocky mountains it has no trouble at all. I'd rather have my old 5.9 that got 20+mpg because I'm never going to pull 30k trailer. The diesel they put in the Escalade is the right balance of power and mileage for that vehicle.

As to why anyone would buy a gas engine in a full size suv with the diesel available is beyond me.
 

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I am curious about the people indicating that the gas engine does not have enough power. I have a 2014 ESV and am VERY happy with the power and power delivery. For such a large vehicle on 2 lane roads it does a great job passing, and on the interstate at 75 you can jump on the gas and it moves out nicely. Definitely blows away all of the prior SUVs and minivans we have owned, but will get smoked by my 2.0T ATS. The 2014 ESV is the best all around interstate cruiser I have ever owned.

Do the newer Escalades not have the same power as the 2014? I know they have more gears in the trans....I would think they would accelerate quicker than the 2014.
 

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19 Black Label Nav L, 19 S560
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I am curious about the people indicating that the gas engine does not have enough power. I have a 2014 ESV and am VERY happy with the power and power delivery. For such a large vehicle on 2 lane roads it does a great job passing, and on the interstate at 75 you can jump on the gas and it moves out nicely. Definitely blows away all of the prior SUVs and minivans we have owned, but will get smoked by my 2.0T ATS. The 2014 ESV is the best all around interstate cruiser I have ever owned.

Do the newer Escalades not have the same power as the 2014? I know they have more gears in the trans....I would think they would accelerate quicker than the 2014.
It's a combination of 2 things. First you have trucks like the GLS580 which is substantially faster in every way and even the Nav which has much better power delivery and outright power. And second it's how the engine makes it power. At low rpms there is no oomph. You need to get into it and gets the revs high to get the truck moving and when you do it feels like you are holding a hand grenade.
 

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I am curious about the people indicating that the gas engine does not have enough power. I have a 2014 ESV and am VERY happy with the power and power delivery. For such a large vehicle on 2 lane roads it does a great job passing, and on the interstate at 75 you can jump on the gas and it moves out nicely. Definitely blows away all of the prior SUVs and minivans we have owned, but will get smoked by my 2.0T ATS. The 2014 ESV is the best all around interstate cruiser I have ever owned.

Do the newer Escalades not have the same power as the 2014? I know they have more gears in the trans....I would think they would accelerate quicker than the 2014.
I think it's a couple different arguments being lumped together.

The 6.2 is fine..... that's about all you can say about it tho. To argue that it's any sort of high performer just isn't true. It downshifts and makes V8 noise when people step on it and that's perceived as power by many. It's not under powered for the escalade but it just sounds silly to argue in favor of it because of performance. It's a decent cheeseburger from Applebee's, it fills you up, but there's nothing special about it. It's certainly not a filet from a good steakhouse.

The other argument is the tech aspect of it. In my opinion it's embarrassing to put an engine that is so outdated in this type of vehicle. As you mentioned, a lot of 2.0 turbos make similar power without much effort. You take this thing with 3x the displacement and make that same power.... it's just very uninspiring, lazy, etc. Most of the target audience doesn't care so I'm sure the strategists are fine with the tradeoff, a handful of car guys thinking less of it and saving the effort and cost of developing something better.
 

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You can keep the turbos. These V6 turbo engines don't last. You will see perfectly nice Ford SUVs with blown engines at 100 to 120k miles. I don't mind since I own a repair shop and have to fix these grenades.
 

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I'll chime in as being a former snake oil covered car salesmen that used to sell ford and caddy in Wyoming and the Dakotas where the Diesel truck to car ration is 9:1.

First, If you are not pulling anything heavy such as a 5th wheel or car hauler or using it as a long distance office where a car doesn't cut it. I would not buy one. Why? several reasons. For starters traditionally with the diesel short and long term costs one would have to drive the vehicle 80,000 miles to justify a diesel over gas. Surprisingly Cadillac doesn't charge any more for the diesel option over the gas. However, maintenance, fuel adds up and where the diesel would shine is in the MPG under load vs Gas. My Ford/Toyota dealership once modified a guys Excursion just simply be his office where he had to travel all over the midwest to farm and ranches. Our techs just simply chipped it, cold air intake, changed the diff gears to a better highway gear and put on some decent radial road tires. One guy told me they were pushing over 40mpg on it. Horses$it I said. I did not believe it until it came in for service one day and my cousin that owned the dealership told me to see for myself and take it back to where the guy lived. I filled up, drove 40miles to where the guy lived and filled it up again around the corner from his house at his gas station. 44mog. I about Sh$t myself as the other salesmen that followed me up was like "See! I told you!" I was in awe as I hade at least 5 clients on the Toyota Prius list back at the dealership that were ordering sight unseen at full MSRP+$1k to get that mpg Prius. "If they only knew." I said.

Another negative on a diesel is in stock form off-road capability. The extra weight on the front of a diesel pickup is much mushier that a gas. I'm sure you would notice that on your Superduty if you drove a gas model in similar configuration. Most guys going from a diesel pickup to a gas think the gas rides like a lumber wagon because you don't get that cushy ride that you do with a diesel pickup on road. Currently I'm a Damage Appraiser for an insurance company. Right now I have two guys that totalled their diesel pickups (different brands) that bottomed out hard enough driving across a field to bend both frame rails damaging the fenders, hood, unibody, front doors and deploying airbags and firing the seatbelt retractors. One guy lost a couple teeth and bent the steering wheel. Both said they didn't think they were going that fast for the terrain.

Another is if your not pulling something hard is the engine themselves. I remember being told once if I took in another GM 6.5 diesel on trade I would be fired. The 7.3 Powerstroke was a great engine that came from Ford with about 70% of the engine power available that responded well to chipping and other performance upgrades. Then GM came along with the Duramax with the Allison trans that had Ford nervous enough to build a 6.0 that was absolute garbage and engine power from the factory was near max so it did not respond well to performance mods. Many guys found out the hard way. Meanwhile Dodge was doing fine with the Cummins despite the turbos not being very reliable. GM soon discovered Galvanic Corrosion issues with the Aluminum heads and the coating used to separate the steel from the Alum. Then the next Ford engine was awesome except the Radiator had a big issue as vehicle after vehicle were towed into our shop with all the injectors failing due to loss of coolant. Our techs usually had 3-4 each constantly sitting outside and each job took the better part of a week and a cool $15k+ bill to Ford. Great, warranty covered it but people were without their vehicles for nearly a month. So my point, I would never buy a diesel until I knew the engine service issues.

If the engine is a slouch you might get lucky with a few inexpensive performance modifications that make it perform how you want it. Could be as simply as a programing module for a few hundred and you have it where you want it. I dunno, I think back and think of the prior engine issues, glow plugs, glow plug relays, getting the stinky diesel gloves out for filling up the tank. I don't think I would want to go through any of that on an Escalade....unless I'm pulling something gas cant with a pile of kids in the back or my traveling office.

But if you gotta have it, want it fast and want it to pull the butt out of the cat. There's always Propane injection kits if you want to stick a propane tank in the back for a "Unique" Experience off the line. I had a doctor that liked pulling heavy stuff up to his cabin in the Bighorn Mountains and flip the switch going past the RV's, campers and other pickups struggling up the hill while he bombs past them pouring out coal. We called him Doc Brown cause he was kinda kooky like Doc Brown from Back to the Future.
 

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Most of the issues you reference are about 20 years in the past. Many of them also a result of emissions constraints and things being forced into production before the engineering had caught up. Hardly an issue to be found with most of the diesel engines produced in the past decade. Guys smashing their trucks up going through fields isn't really relevant here and when your HD trucks are almost all sold with diesel engines vs gas it stands to reason you see more raw numbers of issues with them.
 

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Diesels are purchased by customers with a long built, different mindset. One that is planning a long term ownership of the vehicle with a mindset close to that of an actuary or statistical genius. They take better care of their trucks knowing they have the lowest depreciation in the segment.

Having driven the new 3.0L and a ‘13 6.6L Duramax turbo diesel, both are amazingly quiet and responsive. Neither one is inconvenient or difficult to operate other than getting used to a lower fuel bill. There’s no diesel exhaust stink like the old days.

Like the diesel owners enjoying low fuel costs, I’m doing the same running e85 for $2+ less a gal in an 09 Escalade Platinum. While I certainly don’t have the range of the oil burner, I’m waiting for the CPO diesel Escalade to hit the lots in a few years. I know the diesels can be easily tuned at the BCM to add 100hp/tq via boost.

I’ll say it again, be wary of huge depreciation occurring on gas engine trucks being sold right now. 25 MPG full size SUV will leave competitors in the dust along with hybrid and full EV SUV’s chocked with huge Gov’t incentives to the first buyers. When COVID lightens up and/ends, people gonna travel like never before. High MPG full size SUV will dominate family vacations whether for towing or x country trips to Wally World.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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I ordered our Escalade today and the only option I was not sure about was diesel. I'm concerned it won't have enough pep and responsiveness at highway speeds.
We used a 51 HP VW Golf diesel in the summertime to bum around for many miles (over 350K) and many years (over 31). I loved the car and can tell you that unless you are towing at highway speeds in mountains you don't need a lot of power, you just want it.
 

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I am curious about the people indicating that the gas engine does not have enough power. I have a 2014 ESV and am VERY happy with the power and power delivery. For such a large vehicle on 2 lane roads it does a great job passing, and on the interstate at 75 you can jump on the gas and it moves out nicely. Definitely blows away all of the prior SUVs and minivans we have owned, but will get smoked by my 2.0T ATS. The 2014 ESV is the best all around interstate cruiser I have ever owned.

Do the newer Escalades not have the same power as the 2014? I know they have more gears in the trans....I would think they would accelerate quicker than the 2014.
The issue is that by 2021 standards in this segment, it's pretty dramatically underpowered. The vehicles that people cross-shop with this one are the Navigator, GLS 580, and X7 M50i, all of which are significantly more powerful (and fun to drive) vehicles. Indeed, I think they all weigh less as well, which exacerbates the issue even further. 420HP in a 3 ton truck is pretty awful (again, by today's standards in the segment).

That said, I don't know about others, but the point I (personally) was trying to make is that shortcoming is okay because it excels at so many other things. In other words, if you cross-shopped those 4 vehicles and decided on the Escalade, you undoubtedly did so IN SPITE OF, not because of, the power plant. If you wanted to spend $110K on a truck and have it be fun to drive, you'd buy the M50i (but you'd be making a lot of other sacrifices in other departments that the Escalade is great at in doing so). So, it is just quite odd to hear people talk about expecting performance out of it. That's literally the thing it does worst.

--Matt
 

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What if I told you my escalade is used primarily for off road agricultural purposes and that this solves a lot of the refueling issues? :D
I can understand this. I almost never sneaked a little untaxed red dyed diesel fuel into my VW.
 

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'21 XT5 Prem-Lux w/ Platinum
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So what are the differences between the L87 in trucks and the LT1s (LT2 now?) in the Camaro & Corvette? Plus they have an LT4 (LT5?), already blown w 650/650. Couldn't they use that? Or at least easily offer an L87 w/ supercharger. Should be simple design upgrade if they've previously turned the LT1 into LT4.

I would appreciate a little learning opportunity, if possible.

Thanks
Max
 

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So what are the differences between the L87 in trucks and the LT1s (LT2 now?) in the Camaro & Corvette? Plus they have an LT4 (LT5?), already blown w 650/650. Couldn't they use that? Or at least easily offer an L87 w/ supercharger. Should be simple design upgrade if they've previously turned the LT1 into LT4.

I would appreciate a little learning opportunity, if possible.

Thanks
Max
Here is the info on the L87: GM 6.2 Liter V8 EcoTec3 L87 Engine

It’s a different line of engine than the LT1. These are EcoTec3 line, and they have DFM (which would be hilarious in a corvette). There are going to be obvious ECU differences, but in terms of the architecture, I don’t know.

There are rumors about a supercharger coming down the pike, but the belief is it will be manufacturer-only since they evidently have the ECU locked out to tuners. Big GM SUVs To Get Supercharger Package?
 

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Here is the info on the L87: GM 6.2 Liter V8 EcoTec3 L87 Engine

It’s a different line of engine than the LT1. These are EcoTec3 line, and they have DFM (which would be hilarious in a corvette). There are going to be obvious ECU differences, but in terms of the architecture, I don’t know.

There are rumors about a supercharger coming down the pike, but the belief is it will be manufacturer-only since they evidently have the ECU locked out to tuners. Big GM SUVs To Get Supercharger Package?
I've read about both L86/L87 and LT1/LT2 and still don't see the differences other than application. I've got a 2018 Camaro SS w/ the LT1 and yes, it's got AFM as does the Corvette. Runs on V4 unless full power needed. I've gotten 8.3L/100km avg on highway trips (according to computer) doing 110-115km/hr. Flat prairies by the way. I've even done a bit better than that, with a tailwind.

I've since learned I the L87 has a more advanced AFM, referred to as DFM and has more modes. I don't know of any other differences or why they exist, nor why they did not use DFM on the LT2 instead of keeping the AFM with only two modes.

Max
 

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Completely different engines. Different block and heads. Truck engines have longer stroke, lower redline and lower timing and are designed for more low end power.
 

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I've read about both L86/L87 and LT1/LT2 and still don't see the differences other than application. I've got a 2018 Camaro SS w/ the LT1 and yes, it's got AFM as does the Corvette. Runs on V4 unless full power needed. I've gotten 8.3L/100km avg on highway trips (according to computer) doing 110-115km/hr. Flat prairies by the way. I've even done a bit better than that, with a tailwind.

I've since learned I the L87 has a more advanced AFM, referred to as DFM and has more modes. I don't know of any other differences or why they exist, nor why they did not use DFM on the LT2 instead of keeping the AFM with only two modes.

Max
I don’t know what to tell you, really. Go drive your Camero, then go drive this. It’s...like not even remotely close, and it’s not just the weight of the vehicle or the transmission. The engine feels totally different.
 
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