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Note: Part Rant, Part Help....

I took my '00 STS (34K mi) for a vibration at speed issue. I purchased a set of Turanza LS-H's in hopes they would solve the problem. Not so. I also had the brakes inspected as well to address the vibration - it was noted that the rotors needed replacing, or to be turned (Cadillac says they can be turned, Firestone says no - one doesn't want to replace 'em under warranty, the other one of them wants money!)

Going back, I had them (new tires) balanced etc. by Firestone, however, they do not load force balance 'em. Cadillac wants to charge me $240 smackers for the labor/process to have them L.F. balanced. I made the suggestion that since the "shaking" was before and after new tires, perhaps it's the rotors? Cadi says, not so. I suggested swapping the tires out off another vehicle to see if it's indeed the tires, as well as in an effort to save me the $240 - no go! "We have to exhaust all the possibilities with your car first. WHATEVER, thanks for the help!

1.) The dealer says the brake pads have about 40% life left (under 50%) so they will not replace the rotors or brakes under warranty - DAMN! really?

2.) I know the STS's are tire sensitive but charging $80 a tire for LF balancing seems a little excessive, especially on brand new tires. (what about the balancing charges from Firestone, all a waste?)

3.) Rough idle, they want to charge me $150 to clean the intake & TB?

Getting to the point, can anyone give me any advice in "dealing" with the dealers on items that should be covered under warranty?


Thanks in advance,
 

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There IS a TSB about your year/model vibration problem..... I cant remember exactly what causes it, but I think its something like sway bar bushings or some other rubber part like that.....

Have that investigated first......
 

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TSB is short for technical service bulletin. A TSB is a vehicle specific problem that the manufacturer determines isn't severe or widespread enough warrant a general recall. Mechanics often use TSBs to pinpoint common problems and shorten repair time. Do a google search for "alldata tsb" to verify the correct bulletin number - but I'm sure Brett wouldn't steer you wrong. Alldata is a website where you can look up recall and TSB information on just about any car. Educate yourself on these service bulletins, because as a general rule, dealers are idiots :banghead: and/or are not to be trusted - but you already know this. Good luck, BRO
 

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There was actually JUST a huge discussion on caddymb.netgetgoing.com

Look for the posting that says something about canadian civil suit
This vibration can be caused by several things.. read the posts.
-Eric
Brett said:
Actually I got the info from alldata.com :)
 

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Yeah....lawsuit. Good luck on that. Anyways heres a copy of the requested bulletin...

Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Floor, Seat at Highway Speeds on Smooth Roads (Diagnose/Balance Tires/Wheels) #00-03-10-007C
Table 1: Cadillac Seville and DeVille Tire Changes
Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Floor, Seat at Highway Speeds on Smooth Roads (Diagnose/Balance Tires/Wheels)
1997-2002 Buick Park Avenue, Park Avenue Ultra

2000-2002 Buick LeSabre

1998-2002 Cadillac Seville (SLS, STS)

2000-2002 Cadillac DeVille (DTS only)

2001-2002 Oldsmobile Aurora

2000-2002 Pontiac Bonneville (17" Tires only)

This bulletin is being updated to revise the Parts Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 00-03-10-007B (Section 03 - Suspension).


Important
"IPC" dealers are not authorized to utilized this service bulletin.


In recent months, most of the tire fitments used on the DeVille and Seville models have changed from Goodyear to Michelin in production. For this reason, effective August 1, 2002, Goodyear screened tires will no longer be available for service on these models. Michelin screened tires will be available in some cases. Refer to Parts Information later in this bulletin.

Condition
Some customers may comment on shaking/vibration in the steering wheel, floor or seat while driving at highway speeds (typically between 60-72 mph (96-115 km/h)) on smooth roads.

Cause
These specific vehicles may be sensitive to various rotating mass assemblies, especially if they are considered to be out-of-balance.

Correction
Visually inspect the tires and the wheels. Inspect for evidence of the following conditions and correct as necessary.
Missing balance weights
Bent rim flange
Irregular tire wear
Incomplete bead seating
Tire irregularities
Mud/ice build-up in wheel
Stones in the tire tread
Set the tire pressure to 30 psi (205 kPa) COLD.
Road test the vehicle with the Electronic Vibration Analyzer (EVA) essential tool for a sufficient distance on a known, smooth road surface to duplicate the condition. Record the Hertz (Hz) reading as displayed by the EVA onto the tire data worksheet found at the end of this bulletin. This should be done after a tire break-in period of at least 10 miles (16 km) at 45 mph (72 km/h) or greater, in order to eliminate any possible tire flat-spotting.
If the road test indicates a shake/vibration still exists, check the imbalance of each tire/wheel assembly on a known, calibrated, off-car dynamic balancer. If any assembly calls for more than ¼ ounce on either rim flange, remove all balance weights and rebalance to as close to zero as possible.

Important
Some GM dealers may have a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Balancer. This will simplify Step 5 by not requiring dial indicators. If a Hunter GSP9700 machine is available, it may also be used to measure the radial force of the tire/wheel assembly. A guideline here is 18 lbs or less.


While on the balancer, measure wheel runout. If radial or lateral runout exceeds .020 in (0.50 mm) for aluminum wheels (.030 in (0.76 mm) for steel wheels), replace the wheel.
After confirming wheel balance and wheel runout, if any changes were made, road test the vehicle again.
If the smooth road shake/vibration still exists:

Important
The completed worksheet must be attached to the hard copy of the repair order.


Record Radial Force Variation readings if you have access to Hunter GSP9700 Wheel Balance equipment. Use the worksheet found at the end of this bulletin to record the readings.
If one or more of the tires have RFV readings in excess of 18 lbs, the vehicle should qualify for screened tires.

Important
Dealers servicing the DeVille or Seville models referenced above and originally equipped with Goodyear tires will need to replace these tires with either Goodyear or Michelin tires obtained locally. Canadian Dealers require District Service Manger (DSM) authorization prior to changing tire brands. Any time the tire brand is changed, the tires removed from the vehicle must be scrapped by the DSM.


Complete the screened tire request form found at the end of this bulletin and fax it to the respective OEM tire manufacturer. Refer to the request form for additional instructions.
Screened tires will be shipped to the ordering dealership, at no charge, within three days from the date of order. Screened tires will be labeled as "Screened Tires" for prompt identification when received by dealerships.
Mount and balance the screened tires to the wheels using proper procedures.
Road test the vehicle to ensure the shake/vibration has been resolved.
The old tires MUST be returned to the OEM tire manufacturer. U.S. dealers, use the return shipping label(s) received with the screened tire(s). GM of Canada dealers, use the current established return procedure (refer to Home Office Letter (HOL) 2001-208-Tire Warranty Administration flow charts).

Important
Screened tires will only be provided for vehicles with less than 12 months in service or 12,000 miles (19,000 km), whichever comes first. For vehicles that exceed 12 months and/or 12,000 miles (19,000 km), please contact your respective Area Service Manager (DSM in Canada) for authorization. The supply of screened tires is limited. Please order them wisely.


Parts Information
Cadillac Seville and DeVille Tire Changes
TPC Number
Production Tire
Screened Tires

Previously
1160 MS
P235/55R17 98H Goodyear Eagle RSA
No longer available

Currently
1160 MS
P235/55R17 98H Michelin Energy MXV4+
Available





Previously
1149 MS
P235/60R16 99S Goodyear Integrity
No longer available

Currently
1109 MS
P225/60R16 97S Michelin Symmetry
Available





Previously
1160 MS
P235/55R17 98H Goodyear Eagle LS
No longer available

Currently
1160 MS
P235/55R17 98H Michelin Energy MXV4+
Available






Previously
1148 MS
P235/60R16 99H Goodyear Eagle LS
No longer available

Currently
--
None*
--





*In the fourth case above, where the Goodyear tire was dropped and not replaced with a Michelin tire, locally obtained Goodyear or Michelin tires should be used for service.


Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

E0901
High Speed Tire Shake
0.8 hr

Add
Measure Tire/Wheel Asm., Runout and Re-balance
1.3 hrs

Add
Mount and Balance Screened Tires--All 4 Tires
1.3 hrs



Screened Tire Request Form (Bulletin 00-03-10-007B)

Fax Instructions:

Bridgestone/Firestone : 615-882-3477

Continental General : 888-847-3329

Goodyear : 800-638-5108

Michelin : 248-649-8197





Dealer Code__________________________




Date________________________________





Dealership Name______________________________________________________________





(Shipping) Street Address:______________________________________________________





City/Prov________________________________ State__________ ZIP/Postal Code_________________





Contact Name_______________________________ Phone Number____________________



Fax Number_________________________________



Vehicle Information





VIN________________________________________________________________________





Make____________________ Model______________________________ Year__________





Mileage__________________





Tire Information





Tire Brand/Name_______________________________ Tire Size______________________





TPC Number____________________ Sidewall (circle one) WW BW Sealant





Number of tires requested (circle one) 1 2 3 4



Bulletin #00-03-10-007C Tire Data Worksheet





Vehicle Information



VIN #_______________________________________________ Miileage_________________



Customer Name______________________________________________________________

Tire Information





Size________________________ Brand____________________________ TPC#_________

Verify Vibration Test Drive



A. Speed_____________________________________



B. Road Condition______________________________



C. Trans. In Neutral (check one) : Yes_______ No______



D. Torque Sensitive (check one): Yes_______ No_______



Electronic Vibration Analyzer (EVA)

Diagnostic Tool Readings: Measure from driver's side seat track



A. Speed__________________



B. Hertz (Hz)_______________



C. Gs_____________________





Check Balance

Rebalance if any tire/wheel assembly exceeds 1/4 ounce



Measure Wheel Runout



Radial Runout


Lateral Runout



LF Inboard________ Outboard__________


LF Inboard_________ Outboard_________



RF Inboard________ Outboard__________


RF Inboard_________ Outboard_________



LR Inboard________ Outboard__________


LR Inboard_________ Outboard_________



RR Inboard________ Outboard__________


RR Inboard_________ Outboard________



Radial Force Variation Readings

(If Hunter GSP9700 is used)



LF_________________lbs


LR______________lbs



RF_________________lbs


RR______________lbs


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The idiot with the lawsuit has posted all over this board as well. ( A collossal waste of space! )
 
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