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Eldorado ETC 1995
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57 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My White Pearl has 20k miles on the meter. I backed out of the parking space and had to wait a while for "a person", so I turned it off. When I tried to start again the starter was dead.
Lights, fan, side windows, everything works just fine. To be sure we tried jumper cables, nothing. Tried working the shift lever back and forth, nothing

So far I have come up with three possible explanations:
Something with the starter, connection, solenoid, or other.
The start enabling contact (or what ever it's called) that allows the starter to run when gear shifter is in P or N.
The lock assembly on the steering column is worn out.

It seems like when I turn the key to start it drains power from the battery, but nothing happens, not even a click.

To make things worse I can't locate the starter. Where did they hide that? How do I get access to it?

Of the three explanations I've come up with, which is most likely?

I'll stop there for now. Ideas anyone?
 

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Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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86,781 Posts
Don't overlook the battery. A battery with a dead cell will work accessories just fine, but not start the car. Check the voltage both static and while attempting to crank (load test). If you put a volt meter on it and it falls to 9v or so when you try to crank, the battery is toast.
 

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Eldorado ETC 1995
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57 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I would think that the try with jumper cables, to no avail, is proof that a poor battery is not the cause.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
I would think that the try with jumper cables, to no avail, is proof that a poor battery is not the cause.
==========================
first thing I would do is check for codes -

next would be to check fuses and relays -

the starter is under the intake plenum -
 

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Eldorado ETC 1995
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57 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Codes is a good idea. I'll try to dig up a code reader.
Fuses are OK. I'm not clear on how to identify the appropriate relay.
Thanks for telling where to look for the starter.

These were helpful tips, I hope!
Maybe I'll get a chance to check this up tomorrow.
 

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1926 Model T street rod, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 1999 Corvette.
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6,737 Posts
Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals. Report back with the reading. How old is the battery?

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
Codes is a good idea. I'll try to dig up a code reader.
Fuses are OK. I'm not clear on how to identify the appropriate relay.
Thanks for telling where to look for the starter.

These were helpful tips, I hope!
Maybe I'll get a chance to check this up tomorrow.
=============================

I'll try to dig up a code reader.
you have an excellent code reader built in -
if you don't know how to use it - go here
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-deville-1985-2005-including-1985/138257-how-pull-codes-dtcs.html


I'm not clear on how to identify the appropriate relay.
fuse and relay circuits are listed in the Owners Manual -
starting on page 6-63 -

if you don't have the OM - go here for a free download -
http://www.manualowl.com/am/Cadillac/1995-Eldorado/Manual/182
 

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Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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I would think that the try with jumper cables, to no avail, is proof that a poor battery is not the cause.
Not if you are jumping it through a battery with a dead cell. If you want to try jumpers, disconnect both cables and jump cable to cable, bypassing the battery. Be careful where you lay the cables.
 

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1926 Model T street rod, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 1999 Corvette.
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I ask again, how old is the battery? what's the volts reading at the battery, car off?
 

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Eldorado ETC 1995
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57 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
@ Carnut, The battery is 2 yrs old. After multiple trials to start flashing headlights etc. it still reads 11.94 volts.

@ bass cat, All the fuses checks out OK, though I could not find RH fuse box in engine room. But from the table of content I can not see that fuse box containing any fuses related to the starter.
Th codes read P052 history and P109 history. That's it!

Still no wiser.

I'll try to upload some pictures.
 

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Eldorado ETC 1995
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57 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
So it's still in the green, just.
I'll give it a try cable to cable. Although I believe the problem is elsewhere.
Here are two pictures from when I stripped the easy parts away. Please point to starter.
IMG_20150416_140511 b.jpg
IMG_20150416_140500b.jpg
 

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Eldorado
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448 Posts
If the lights stay on when you try to crank, its not the battery or direct connections to it,
could be a connection farther down. An 85 Toro starter is easily dropped from below; I
think I'd try mounting one of those before I'd pull an intake manifold (may that bean
counter burn in h**l). Bruce Roe
 

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Eldorado ETC 1995
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Discussion Starter #15
If the lights stay on when you try to crank, its not the battery or direct connections to it,
could be a connection farther down. An 85 Toro starter is easily dropped from below; I
think I'd try mounting one of those before I'd pull an intake manifold (may that bean
counter burn in h**l). Bruce Roe
The lights stay on.
Toro, do you mean a lawnmower starter? How do I drop anything from below?
I do agree about pulling the intake manifold on pure chance. Also it will be very difficult to try the starter with the manifold out.
 

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Eldorado ETC 1995
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Discussion Starter #17
I looked up how to replace the starter on an LH2 N* like I have in the 2005 SRX. It's located more or less dead center in the engine room, under the intake plenum as basscat said.
I presume they never changed that during production of the N*.
This all means that changing the starter requires draining coolant, disconnecting a number of hoses, lines and contacts, removing the intake. And then get to the starter.
When there it means in practicality to replace the starter and the connecting lines, to secure function.

Before getting into all that I would like to try everything else that might be faulty. For example I would like to rule out that it's not a malfunction of the neutral contact for the shifter and nothing wrong with the key and the start position of the lock.
What kind of tests can I do to rule that out?

Worth mentioning is that when I bought the car it had an after market alarm system installed. That didn't work well so I took it out. Some time after that the "security" lamp in the instrument cluster started to be on constantly. It never caused any problem during close to ten years.
But is it possible that this suddenly is a problem?
 

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Super Moderator
White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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Unless the LH2 was drastically changed, the intake manifold is dry (no coolant running through it), so you do not need to drain anything.

The picture below seems to confirm this.

 

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Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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68,449 Posts
Yes, the aftermarket alarm systems (and remote start systems) usually screw up the content theft, TheftLock and built-in security systems - a hiccup there disables several functions, including the starter and fuel injectors.

The problems can occur the day you install the system(s), the next week, the next year - and when a connection or wire fails.

Fooling with the sound system is also almost certain to cause the same problems with security.

Trouble code time, or find someone with a GM scan/program tool - your car would be the obsolete OBD1 protocol, so I don't know if the later GM tech-II would work.

Study the proper year/model group of instructions in the sticky thread "How to pull codes" on this forum's main threads page.

Your intake manifold setup - pieces and gaskets - is different from the later engines, but there is no coolant involved. Fuel rail and injectors, nuts and bolts.
 

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Eldorado ETC 1995
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57 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
OK, to sum this up.
It's a dry job to retrieve the starter. Good.
Still requires method, patience and a few replace gaskets and such. If I find the starter OK, this may turn into an electronic nightmare.
Check the sticky thread, How to pull codes.
The CD player on the Bose broke down years ago. No work done on it. Radio is OK.
The security system may be an issue. I'm not clear on how to go about checking or remedy that.

If it turns into an electronic challenge, I'm not the guy to fix it!
Sad with a summer driven car, rust free chassis/body and otherwise in good condition.
 
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