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04' CTS-V, 04' Escalade EXT
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Discussion Starter #1
Checking to see if there is any interest in the following!

I have found a reputable spring mfg willing to help design springs to lower the V for less than $80 per set. (all 4 springs) They require 25 orders to do the job; I was told it would probably be about $30.00 per front set and 30 per back set. So it may be as low as $60 for the car.

This company has been in business since 1886, they are located in San Leandro Ca. The name is Betts Spring Co., you can look them up on the web. I spoke to the Eng/Production Mgr today; he said it would take about 4-5 weeks once they begin the work.

My thought is to lower the car about 1.2 +/- inches and increase the spring rate to about 500 lb per inch. We would need to agree on the spring spec and other details before moving forward.

If interested let me know. I will get more details; work with anybody interested in helping…what ever it takes to git-r-done!
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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1,241 Posts
RGD,
Count me in!!!!! 500lbs/in would be awesome, but I'd rather keep the drop between .75-1inch, as running at autox and track events may cause some real funky rubbing with wider tires.

Heck, even if it were 1.2in, I could always add a spacer to raise the V back to my required height. Imagine what 500lbs and Hotskiss bars would feel like?....yeah, I like that mental image...

Horsepower for the turns!!!!!
-ace
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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1,241 Posts
Thanks, Wild. Now you just need to connect work with RGD and be the first ones to offer a "real" suspension kit!!!!
Imagine, the Road-Race Pack....heck, bundle the Hotschkis Bars, the WW lowering mod and throw in a few spring spacers and you could call it the Adjustable RR Pack!!!! Certainly worth $500-$600, no?

Really, RGD, thank you for pushing for this- the FG2s really need some more spring rate to compensate for the over-dampedness. Please let me know how I can help...
-ace
 

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2016 ATS-V
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2,271 Posts
500lbs huh? I like my kidney too much for that spring rate... How about we compromise at 450lbs ??

And I agree the drop needs to be 0.75" to 1"... the closer to 0.75" the better. It wont *look* as good as a 1.2" drop... but more than 1" and handling will suffer... too close to the bump stops. 0.75 drop is ideal for handling.

I'm less than 30 minutes from San Leandro, CA... I can drive over and check them out if your want RGD.
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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1,241 Posts
10% stiffer, Dreamin? Not much of a difference, you think? I know with the Hotschiss bars, things will be a little flatter...but, and I can't remember what shocks you're using, the FG2s are a little overdamped for the stock springs. I figure a 20% increase would help the ride.....believe it or not, this has worked with a few other cars!

Also, with a vehicle that weighs as much as ours, on the autox/track a little more spring-rate could never hurt. I hear what you're saying about the kidneys, but I just don't think it'd really make that much of a difference.

Either way, I'm in.
-ace
 

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2016 ATS-V
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2,271 Posts
Ace, never been to Looonk Island (my best NY accent)... but the freeway's in CA are complete SHITE! I'm running stock (non-FG2) shocks and 500lbs will be too much for the freeway's around here. I hear what you're saying about the handling... but I dont need my V to be my track only car, and the Z06 to be my daily driver :bonkers: :bonkers:

P.S. Did anyone ever hook-up with Ground Control???
 

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04' CTS-V, 04' Escalade EXT
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Discussion Starter #9
I think we will need to do some work to narrow the right spring rate. For reference this is why I think somewhere around 500 would be best. First, I have my car dropped (best guess) 1" to 1.2" and it sits just about perfect in my view. With QA1's and the stock spring (1/3 coil cut) the ride is ok but not stiff enough. I hit the wheel well when I hit a big dip or corner too hard. That is with the shocks turned 9 clicks out of 12. Cutting the spring makes them stiffer by probably 25 to 40 lbs so I have been told by various spring engineers; I have talked to at least 5 different engineers at length. A Corvette’s stock spring rate is 550 and the car weighs 1,000 lbs less than the V. As far as the amt of drop goes, we can mfg to a 1.2” drop and use spacers to raise the height to the desired height each person wants. (My opinion) I don't care about the look, I am after handling. Lower center of gravity better handling. With the Hotchkiss bars on (end of this week) I don’t think the drop will be an issue while cornering.

Dreamin, if you are interested in checking out how my car sits as it is now let me know. And if you want to work with me on this that is ok too, but, I am definitely going to interface with Betts all the way on this. I have put way too much time and energy into finding a good inexpensive solution.



Dreamin said:
500lbs huh? I like my kidney too much for that spring rate... How about we compromise at 450lbs ??

And I agree the drop needs to be 0.75" to 1"... the closer to 0.75" the better. It wont *look* as good as a 1.2" drop... but more than 1" and handling will suffer... too close to the bump stops. 0.75 drop is ideal for handling.

I'm less than 30 minutes from San Leandro, CA... I can drive over and check them out if your want RGD.
 

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2005 Light Platinum CTS-V
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59 Posts
WOW what a price! I want in also :cool2: If you need any help, I'm also less than 30 minutes from San Leandro, CA... in Pleasanton and mostly work my own hours. :lildevil:
 

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'05 CTS-V, '12 CTS-V Manny Vagon
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GTP said:
Count me in!

I'm down with .75 lowering and 500lbs springrate.

*************

IN. The stiffer the better. I have FG2, and it's still too soft.

Can I assume that this would require the WW Rear Nivomat Mod?

-Chris
 

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2003 CTS Manual Trans., '93 STS
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If you guys stick to -0.75" to -1", the WildWhl Nivomat mod will be perfect. I don't think you're gonna get more than -1" by replacing spacers on the stock Nivomats though. Mine ended up at -0.9" with Eibachs (-1.2") and V shocks with the WW mod. I shimmed the fronts up 7mm with a set of WW's front shims to level out my normal CTS. Eibachs on the normal CTS are very close to the stock CTS-V spring rates (68N/mm Fronts and 46 to 69N/mm Rears(progressive), vs. 70N/mm for the V) and those are very firm for my taste. You V guys must have iron kidneys to want more. :D
 

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I'm also in. RGD contacted me before posting. I think it's a good move. For a silly $80 cost we could have a set of springs for everyone to achieve the look and performance they want.

I was wondering if the 500lb spring rate would be too much. I think a good compromise is 450lbs. I also think we shouldn't go past 3/4" drop. We'll need WW to provide the mod with some FG2 shocks too. That way there can be a complete spring/shock combo modification. Also, do you guys want linear springs or progressive springs?

Linear springs for all of you that don't know what it means is, a coil spring with 450lb rating from the top coil to the bottom coil. If the spring is too stiff, your ride will be hard all the time.

Progressive springs are more like the Eibach springs. This means that the bottoms coils are set at a lower spring rate for comfort. As they compress, the springs will achieve the maximum spring rate. Most times you'll only need maximum spring rate when you go to the track. Therefore, I think this is the best setup.

The V only needs a slightly higher spring rate, sways, R compound tires, and some adjustment to camber. The car is heavy. It's not an ideal car to track with anyway. It's good for the occasional get your jollies off once or twice a year track toy. If you plan to make this car a track toy, you're better off going with a Corvette or something else more track friendly. It's like trying to make an elephant a ballerina. It ain't gonna happen. You'll need to do some serious modifications. I do think the car can use a little help with these springs but I wouldn't over do it. This is why most of us can't justify $4000 coilovers from Mallet Cars when all we want is a little improvement.

If I don't make sense or what I tried to explain can be explained better, go for it. That's my 2 cents. ;)
 

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2016 ATS-V
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rgd: Didn't notice you are in the Bay Area and can work directly with Betts :thumbsup:

Spring rate increase is linear with # of coils cut... cutting 1/3 of a coil will have minimal impact... i cant remember exactly how many coils the springs have, but w/9 coils, cutting 1/3 of a coil will increase spring rate approx 15lbs.

And I agree with "Lower center of gravity better handling", but up to a certain point, after that changes in the suspension geometry, increased scrub radius, increased bump steer, hitting the bump stops, etc. starts to hurt handling. The 0.75" number comes from talking to LPE and Mallett.

Veloce: FWIW, I find 'spirited' driving on progressive rate spings very disconcerting (I mean 9/10th driving) and I wont use them on a track car at all - MHO. The spring rate is constantly changing... corner entry, apex, exit... spring rate is different on a tight freeway off-ramp vs. a wider one... am i going to understeer? Is the rear going to come around if i load up the suspension a little more? I end up having no confidence in the suspension.
 

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Orginal owner; 2004 CTS-V
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Put me on the list. I'm gathering the parts and would like to lower the "V" soon.:yup:
450 to 500 rate is OK for me.
I'd prefer linear spring rate for the reasons DREAMIN mentioned.
 

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'04 CTSV
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60 Posts
I'm in. For $80, I'll go with the consensus on spring rate, drop, etc..., and complain later if I don't like it.
 

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Lemon Law'd '05 V
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I respect everyone's wishes and opinions, but anything less than a 20-25% increase in rate is not going to cut it. With the ride-height dropped, there needs to be a compensation with spring-rate to keep the car from bottoming out with aggressive driving. Aggressive driving, isn't that why we're looking for stiffer springs that will lower the V? When an aftermarket company releases springs, they usually need to bump rate due to a reduction in travel. Also, with the vehicle lowered and the CG lowered, a stiffer spring is needed for mid-corner bumps:
Imagine cornering at a good speed and the outside tires are loaded, a high g-situation, and you encounter a bump. With a lowered vehicle, the reduction of suspension travel combined with a non-sufficient spring can allow the vehicle to hit the bump-stop...this leads to a loss of compliance and usually a complete loss of traction. That is a classic example of why "street-drop" progressive-rate springs SUCK, they usually don't allow a vehicle to handle better. This is the exact opposite of why I want stiffer/lower springs. Really, I don't care about the lowering...I just want stiffer springs..and they must be linear.

Really, a 20-25% increase in rate is not a great deal, and won't turn a "comfortable" car into an "uncomfortable" one...500lbs wont make the V a "track" car; 800-1000lbs would be acceptable for a real autox set-up, but I'd really piss-off my wife if I did that.

So my vote goes to a linear spring of 500lbs with a 1"drop.

And Dreamin, I hear you..I really do, but I don't have a Z06 to take to the track. Alls I got is the V, and I'm just trying to make it the best it can be...not too hard...not too soft. And the roads on LI suck, especially after the winter...potholes larger than Civics....really!

And the more I think about it, 25% may not be stiff enough....
-ace
 

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Guess we better get to cutting spacers again :D

Actually - anybody know someone with a water jet? 1/4" aluminum spacers for the front springs would be sweet...and probably less expensive then laser cutting Delrin is :cookoo:

I'd like a set of springs - just so I could have some useless grooves in my front shocks now :nono:

Good work guys, I'm anxious to see the results.

WW
 
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