Don't know where you get your Vette info, but you speak as if it is gospel. Where have you read that a ZO6 won't be out for a year and that the Blue Devil won't be out for 2 years??? Also, didn't a BMW tester/driver beat his best lap ever in an M5 the first time out in the CTSV? Gee wonder what some seat time would do for him??? Now as for weight since you seem to think it doesn't matter....It beat your M3 and it weighs a hell of alot more. Aren't there 4 door M3's, how well do they compare to the 4 door CTSV????
CTS-V lap times at the Nuerburgring
41 - 60 of 91 Posts
Joined
·
31 Posts
Your point? I guess you forgot who supplied Iraq with attack helicopters and weapons in the 80s's when they were fighting Iran. The USA. Or the 24 american companies that supplied Iraq with the materials needed to produce it's weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/gao/nsi94098.htm
This is about cars. Not politics. If you're idea of supporting our government is by not purchasing german cars, so be it. But I have fought in 2 wars already (first Gulf war and Afghanistan) and am about to fight in number 3. I think I've earned the right to drive whatever the hell I want to without having some armchair politician preach to me about how bad it is that I drive a german car.
I normally don't resort to personal attacks, but stop being such an imbecile, and quit bringing politics into a freakin' car discussion.:annoyed:
http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/gao/nsi94098.htm
This is about cars. Not politics. If you're idea of supporting our government is by not purchasing german cars, so be it. But I have fought in 2 wars already (first Gulf war and Afghanistan) and am about to fight in number 3. I think I've earned the right to drive whatever the hell I want to without having some armchair politician preach to me about how bad it is that I drive a german car.
I normally don't resort to personal attacks, but stop being such an imbecile, and quit bringing politics into a freakin' car discussion.:annoyed:
darrelld said:
Oh geesh, not the trump card already! Can't we remain with dialog about metal machines and not turn it into a "your not a patriot if you don't buy GM..."? If we were all really concerned about not developing things with German help, then GM's gulity as charged:darrelld said:
(report on CTS-V from google search) "...it is notable that Cadillac went to the trouble of developing the manual gearbox with German supplier Getrag"
Joined
·
31 Posts
Gospel? Uh...okay. It's just what GM is telling the press, but if you want to vcall it Gospel, go right ahead. For the life of me I can't understand what is so difficult about researching something on your own. By the way, this is old and outdated news.
From Autoweek:
"Only the C6coupe will debut in Detroit. The convertible will be shown later in the year, and the Z06 will be a 2006 model-year item. Hill said it will differ more from the C6 on which it is based than today's Z06 is from the C5, and talk of 500 hp is widespread. Thanks to the existence of the Cadillac XLR for the luxury touring car crowd, Corvette engineers will be free to concentrate on the performance side of the equation. It's looking like an exciting time for Corvette fans."
Info on the Blue Devil from Autoweek::
While chief engineer Dave Hill has publicly announced the Z06 version of the next-gen Vette due in 2005 will have 500 hp, his engine team wasn’t sure until recently that they could actually achieve that impressive figure. Sources now say that it will be a case of “nothing beats cubic inches” with 95 extra horses (compared to today’s 405-hp Z06) coming as a result of boring and stroking the next-gen Chevy small-block V8 to 427 cubic inches—7.0 liters. Not since the late-1960s has that magic number of cubes been under a Corvette’s composite hood (though there were some 454s along the way).
More important, Chevy is clearly investigating an ultra-performance Corvette designed to do battle with—and conquer—the mid-engined GT from rival Ford, as well as many supercars from across the pond. Called Blue Devil (no one knows why it has that name—could it be Chevy hopes to bedevil Ford’s blue oval?), unofficial stats make the name seem appropriate. Reportedly producing 625 hp, Blue Devil’s initial power will come from a supercharged 427 engine—and it will use lightweight carbon fiber for key body parts, reducing weight by several hundred pounds to drop the super C6 to about 2900 pounds.
The price indicated on the internal documents is $100,000 for Blue Devil, if and when it actually makes production in 2006—at the earliest. "
Now, for your other comments.
No. The M3 does not come in a 4-door, and it hasn't in over 6 years. And no, the CTS-V has NOT beaten the M3. There hasn't been a independent test yet, remember? Also, the CTS-V has 400 HP. The current M3 has 333 HP. The extra HP makes up for the extra weight of the CTS-V when it comes to acceleration.
The next-gen M3 will have at least 400HP and will weigh over 400 lbs less than the CTS-V. The next-gen M5 will have 500HP and weigh approximately the same as the CTS-V. That is why I guarantee BMW has absolutely NOTHING to worry about from Cadillac. Sorry to burst your bubble.
From Autoweek:
"Only the C6coupe will debut in Detroit. The convertible will be shown later in the year, and the Z06 will be a 2006 model-year item. Hill said it will differ more from the C6 on which it is based than today's Z06 is from the C5, and talk of 500 hp is widespread. Thanks to the existence of the Cadillac XLR for the luxury touring car crowd, Corvette engineers will be free to concentrate on the performance side of the equation. It's looking like an exciting time for Corvette fans."
Info on the Blue Devil from Autoweek::
While chief engineer Dave Hill has publicly announced the Z06 version of the next-gen Vette due in 2005 will have 500 hp, his engine team wasn’t sure until recently that they could actually achieve that impressive figure. Sources now say that it will be a case of “nothing beats cubic inches” with 95 extra horses (compared to today’s 405-hp Z06) coming as a result of boring and stroking the next-gen Chevy small-block V8 to 427 cubic inches—7.0 liters. Not since the late-1960s has that magic number of cubes been under a Corvette’s composite hood (though there were some 454s along the way).
More important, Chevy is clearly investigating an ultra-performance Corvette designed to do battle with—and conquer—the mid-engined GT from rival Ford, as well as many supercars from across the pond. Called Blue Devil (no one knows why it has that name—could it be Chevy hopes to bedevil Ford’s blue oval?), unofficial stats make the name seem appropriate. Reportedly producing 625 hp, Blue Devil’s initial power will come from a supercharged 427 engine—and it will use lightweight carbon fiber for key body parts, reducing weight by several hundred pounds to drop the super C6 to about 2900 pounds.
The price indicated on the internal documents is $100,000 for Blue Devil, if and when it actually makes production in 2006—at the earliest. "
Now, for your other comments.
No. The M3 does not come in a 4-door, and it hasn't in over 6 years. And no, the CTS-V has NOT beaten the M3. There hasn't been a independent test yet, remember? Also, the CTS-V has 400 HP. The current M3 has 333 HP. The extra HP makes up for the extra weight of the CTS-V when it comes to acceleration.
The next-gen M3 will have at least 400HP and will weigh over 400 lbs less than the CTS-V. The next-gen M5 will have 500HP and weigh approximately the same as the CTS-V. That is why I guarantee BMW has absolutely NOTHING to worry about from Cadillac. Sorry to burst your bubble.
GNSCOTT said:
Huh? Facing what truth? That GM may have finally come up with a road vehicle competitive with what BMW's been doing for twenty-five years? Hey, competition is a good thing. The more the better. If GM's finally serious about this, great, especially since BMW's decided to start answering questions I never asked with things like iDrive and Active Steering. I'd love to see some of the Japanese makes get into this mix as well, a 400+HP version of the next Lexus GS and a decently modern replacement for the Infiniti M45 would be good for everyone. Ford and GM have absolute world-beaters in Australia that are pretty much in the M5/CTS-V class, but they won't sell them here.rueben44 said:
No one's ever suggested GM is lying. GM's official numbers are 4.6 0-60 and [email protected], go to the Cadillac website, click on V-Series, then click on the Engine link in the Features list. Perfectly decent numbers. A tenth or two one way or the other matters not a bit - differences in road surface, ambient air temperature, fuel quality, tire pressure, or the driver's footwork can make more difference than that.
What class a car RACES in, should someone decide to go racing, depends on (a) what car you have to race (b) what sanctioning body and class offers the best market visibility (c) whether you can make your vehicle competitive within the size/weight/engine constraints that class' rules allow.
In BMW's case they have a number of different vehicles to choose from, and because they've positioned the M3 as the hard-core sportster they race it, and not the heavier, bulkier, M5 (on track smaller and lighter is better) which is now out of production anyway. In GM's case, if they want to showcase Cadillac the only option they've got is a CTS.
As a road car, the CTS-V sells at near-M3 pricing, but it's identical to the M5, Jag S-Type R, E55, RS6, etc. in size and similar to those vehicles in overall capabilities. Each of those vehicles has its own niche, its own specialty.
The only potential M3 buyers that the CTS-V will snag are those who want the four-door model BMW won't build anymore (there was a four-door M3 back in the E36 days, but the '99 was the last one) and even the press (who usually makes their comparisons on price) hasn't been pushing the M3-competitor line.
The CTS-V's most direct new competitor is probably the Audi S4, which is a little smaller, a little slower, about the same price, and offers a manual transmission. The closest-priced new competitor of similar size is the Jag S-Type R, which doesn't offer a manual and isn't quite the hard-core road-burner the CTS-V or M5 is. The CTS-V's most direct competitor, IMO - for now at least - is a used M5.
Not likely. BMW North America had a lot of say in the E36 M3 ('95-99) - it was a 'cheap' M3 without the good (expensive hand-built) engine (US car was 240HP vs 321HP in the rest of the world - a few of the 'real' M3 were reputedly sold in Canada early in the '95 model year), the 4-door was done primarily for the US market though it was sold elsewhere and did very well. There was also an automatic version of the US car, and it worked well but it's largely scorned by the M3 community.ctsvinman said:
For the E46 M3 the feature set was much more tightly controlled by BMW AG, no 'cheap' model, no automatic, and no 4-door.
Divexxtreme said:
A lot of inferences to justify your attacks.
No one stated patriotism is related to car ownership, your psychological problems seem to have overcome your judgment. I don't buy BMW's because of the bland "Me Too Styling" and the crappy customer support you get. Not to mention the personal issues a number of their owners seem to have.
Joined
·
1,380 Posts
On the Jag S-Type R I have test driven this car recently @ a $60-65k price tag. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) I would have to give this supercharged 8cyl 4 door sedan - a 3-4 for handling and a 2-3 for acceleration (I drive a factory supercharged v6 daily). The interior is amazing, styling not bad, but the driving experience lost the dealer the sale immediately and he knew it.
My hope is that the CTS-V I have on order is the other way around (higher caliber driving experience - with some ppl questioning int/ext styling).
Just about $0.02 worth
-Ben
Joined
·
31 Posts
Darrelld - You should really be careful when talking about other people's "personal issues". You're the one that seems to have some sort of sick obsession with Al Pacino. Not me.:cookoo: :bonkers:
Lastly, you really need to stop being so insecure. I know that getting tossed headfirst into trashcans all throughout high school has left some deep emotional scars, but you're safe now. No big-bad BMW drivers are going to pick on you anymore. I promise.:histeric:
Oh, and nice Camaro by the way.:rolleyes2
Lastly, you really need to stop being so insecure. I know that getting tossed headfirst into trashcans all throughout high school has left some deep emotional scars, but you're safe now. No big-bad BMW drivers are going to pick on you anymore. I promise.:histeric:
Oh, and nice Camaro by the way.:rolleyes2
darrelld said:
Joined
·
31 Posts
Continue? No, I think I've made my point. Just so you know, this thread only began to degrade after you made the following (and very self-revealing) post:
"Germany and its sympathizers have had this superior attitude throughout history."
Without that "classy" comment, we probably wouldn't have had a debate in the first place.
"Germany and its sympathizers have had this superior attitude throughout history."
Without that "classy" comment, we probably wouldn't have had a debate in the first place.
darrelld said:
If you know anything about history and Germany the arrogance is self evident, and you have certainly proved my point by your interpretation and ensuing downward spiral of elitist comments.Divexxtreme said:
Certainly no questioning of patriotism was implied and I wish you the best with your Iraq tour. I used to work for DOD as an EOD Tech and members of my family still do.
Current: None Past: '94 STS, '93 Eldorado, '98 ETC, '03 CTS
Joined
·
6,671 Posts
We americans are known for our arrogance too.
Being american, I'm glad we now have a sport sedan to hold over germany's head.
Being american, I'm glad we now have a sport sedan to hold over germany's head.
Joined
·
31 Posts
Absolutely Leigh, the CTS-V will surely put Volkswagon and Saab in their place. The other german manufacturers, however, have nothing to worry about.
The other german manufacturers, however, have nothing to worry about.gothicaleigh said:We americans are known for our arrogance too.
Being american, I'm glad we now have a sport sedan to hold over germany's head.
Joined
·
31 Posts
It's unfortunate that the EOD community has a someone like yourself representing them.
darrelld said:
:crying2:darrelld said:
The M3 kicks a*s and has a built a legend of a*s kicking which precedes it and respectfully.
The CTS-V kicks a*s and has the potential to kick around some of the legends arses too, just like the RoadRunners, GTO's and Cuda's that USED to give us claim to the baddest numbers around.
Its all the same shyt when it comes to what we love though, THEYRE CARS NOT POLITICAL CANDIDATES!!!
:bighead: Ive tried to stay out of this stupid cliche anti-american / anti-german bickering because I am one of the BMW owners/ENTHUSIASTS who does NOT believe BMW and Mercedes rule the earth without fault and with N*azi fists by any means at all, they make their share of mistakes, but they have earned my respect for building proven quality and performance oriented vehicles as well, that is an undeniable fact. Therefore, it makes some sense that they are typically brought up as a measuring stick for other brands' success. However I stopped by this thread for a peek this evening and saw almost nothing newly relevant (I could certainly jump in with some comments and have done so in the past but I will restrain myself). Here I came to view some exciting potentially new V-car info and thats not what I got,not by a longshot. This comment and some of the others above are just absolutely out of place and unnecessary on this topic (or the whole forum). Maybe this thread could just be closed and a new one dedicated to CTS-V Track results opened in its place, I for one am looking forward to seeing more real world raw numbers as they become available to compare with my perennial favorites.
I think you guys (and gals) are great,but youre definitely the most opinionated group of gearheads ive ever run into, makes things interesting... :grouphug:
BTW... Isnt Saab swedish?
Flame suit on... :yawn:
It sorta is and I checked out the 9-3 seriously before the CTS purchase.Playdrv4me said:BTW... Isnt Saab swedish?
Flame suit on... :yawn:
http://www.saabnet.com/aas/2002.W34/1181648940.990266.html
41 - 60 of 91 Posts
