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What's wrong with just "American?"

As a white guy, I've been drilled for my entire life about not judging people because of what race they are. Everyone is equal, no one is better than anyone else just because of what color their skin is.

Then we get all these new categories with non-offensive names. It's okay to say white men can't jump, but a football coach with a spotless reputation can't say that black athletes are faster.
 

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Cadillac Maniac
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It's a terrible double-standard that's working nicely for minorities right now - but will only cause much trouble later on down the road. Probably when it's too late and white americans are outnumbered by minorities. I think it IS possible for us to all get along but the games need to be fair. Most of us white people were minorities at one point as Europeans. Like mentioned above, we happened to fit right in and everything worked out. We adapted to the customs of Americans. Unfortunately, not everybody is fitting in.. So now what? The worst part about this is that we're willingly welcoming all different types of people/customs and eventually our own is going to be considered the minority. That's not the way it should be. Where's OUR country then? Do we get to have one anymore? Will we be considered prejudice because we want to be around our own kind?
 

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Discussion Starter #23
This debate happened almost 200 years ago. For a long time it was the Irish who were considered the scum who created violent crime and were lazy bastards who drank too much and attacked Anglo-Saxons, Scots, and Dutch Americans. The Irish were seen to have a culture that was too different to fit in.

Then it was the Italians and Germans, then the debate was over the Poles and other Slavs, etc.

I'm not really taking issue with what you guys are saying, but I do find it interesting that this is a debate which has indeed happened before in North American history, in much the same terms.
 

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Ralph said:
This debate happened almost 200 years ago. For a long time it was the Irish who were considered the scum who created violent crime and were lazy bastards who drank too much and attacked Anglo-Saxons, Scots, and Dutch Americans. The Irish were seen to have a culture that was too different to fit in.
Then it was the Italians and Germans, then the debate was over the Poles and other Slavs, etc.
I'm not really taking issue with what you guys are saying, but I do find it interesting that this is a debate which has indeed happened before in North American history, in much the same terms.
But i dont belive in history that the minoirty took the rights away from the majoirty ....this seems to be prevalant in post 1960s America ....and really bad post 1992....

Just wait ralph .....youll get hit hard by this ....

One day youll get passed up for a promotion , becuse they needed someone of a diffrent race because they want to look like a fair workplace .....and they will tell you this .....then after you quit youll get in your car , that if you only knew you pay more for insureance on becuse your a single white male under 25....youll go to school , and there 2 rows over from you you hear this white girl talking about how gorgues that black guy in in the parklinglot and youll hear her bash white men ...you cant get a home or an apartment becuse , your not married and since your not a minoirty you dont qualify for any houseing acts ....

youll realize your obselete ...and youll start to think your rasict becuse your jelous of the oppertunity they get .....while you struggle ....

then youll get to my point , if i had one wish , id wish i was black ....

Evevryone made such a big deal about how were all the same under that skin .....why did we never get that far ?

Doctor Martin Luther King surely must be turning 9700 RPM in his grave ....but at least tampa made up for some of it and named every other street Dr Martin Luther King ...and made speical signs that dont abbriviate any of it .....yet i dont see any "President Abrham Lincolin" Streets ...and if it wasnt for him The doctor would have been in a field somewhere trying to figure out what jamed the cotton gin up this time.....

Im sorry if it all sounds rasicst .....but i am sick and tired of folks thinking were doing the right thing ...but when you boil the water you find were giving homes, jobs, and money to people because there "diffrent"..... were all human ....folks it aint that damned hard , if someone wants it theyll go out and work for it ...trust me ....

Throw the whole damn thing out the window ...

God made us look diffrent ....thats all .....why cant we accept it and move on ....

why do we need a "race" collum on a job application ?
 

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Stoneage_Caddy said:
But i dont belive in history that the minoirty took the rights away from the majoirty ....this seems to be prevalant in post 1960s America ....and really bad post 1992....
Just wait ralph .....youll get hit hard by this ....
One day youll get passed up for a promotion , becuse they needed someone of a diffrent race because they want to look like a fair workplace .....and they will tell you this .....then after you quit youll get in your car , that if you only knew you pay more for insureance on becuse your a single white male under 25....youll go to school , and there 2 rows over from you you hear this white girl talking about how gorgues that black guy in in the parklinglot and youll hear her bash white men ...you cant get a home or an apartment becuse , your not married and since your not a minoirty you dont qualify for any houseing acts ....
youll realize your obselete ...and youll start to think your rasict becuse your jelous of the oppertunity they get .....while you struggle ....
then youll get to my point , if i had one wish , id wish i was black ....
Evevryone made such a big deal about how were all the same under that skin .....why did we never get that far ?
Doctor Martin Luther King surely must be turning 9700 RPM in his grave ....but at least tampa made up for some of it and named every other street Dr Martin Luther King ...and made speical signs that dont abbriviate any of it .....yet i dont see any "President Abrham Lincolin" Streets ...and if it wasnt for him The doctor would have been in a field somewhere trying to figure out what jamed the cotton gin up this time.....
Im sorry if it all sounds rasicst .....but i am sick and tired of folks thinking were doing the right thing ...but when you boil the water you find were giving homes, jobs, and money to people because there "diffrent"..... were all human ....folks it aint that damned hard , if someone wants it theyll go out and work for it ...trust me ....
Throw the whole damn thing out the window ...
God made us look diffrent ....thats all .....why cant we accept it and move on ....
why do we need a "race" collum on a job application ?

You racist!

Okay, I'm joking, because you're 100% correct in most of this...

Now here's how it is:

Today while I was interviewing for a job, in which several canidates were present, I had an observation: there were four white men, 1 white woman, and 1 black man. Of these people the black man was the first in line to be interviewed. The four white men followed, and lastly, the white woman...This job was for technical repair that required at least two years of on-the-job experience.

The interviews were not meant to be in any specific order, but those who were called first just happened to be interviewed first, that's all.

As I was going over the applications, I was noting the race ond gender of each individual: the white men (4 of them) had qualifications of various degrees, but one in particular had superb qualifications. He was a recent graduate of an esteemed school, had three years experience in his field of study (dildo repair), and he, im my professional opinion, held the best interview. He answered all of the questions properly in where I could really tell that he could rebuild a dildo under intense pressure, especially when he was given a small exam that would emulate such an emergency repair. The other three white men were qualified as well, but not like this guy was. They couldn't unerstand the pressures in this field of repair...It would appear that I had my canidate filled in with white guy number one...

But an interesting thing happened: Just two weeks ago, the company I was working for was given a memo, an "affirmative action" memo...

So as I rounded up the interviewees and their respective applications and exams, I recalled this memo and I also recalled the black guy that interviewed as well. Though he was qulaified to a degree in where he had a brand new technical degree for the aforementioned repairs, he simply had no outside experience in which this particualr job called for...

But I was again haunted by that "affirmative action" memo...

It was then that through I decided to hire the black man (less qualified) because I had a quota that had to be filled, or the ACLU, the NAACP, and God knows who or what else would be down the companie's neck for not hiring a minority to fill a role. Nevermind the fact that guy number one (white, almost an albino!) had better credentials, our company had to fill that quota or else we would suffer fines and other unsavory penalties for non-compliance with the "affirmative action" laws...

By the way, the woman was a lesbian who had no qualifications whatsoever on dildo repair, although I was impressed with how well she described the item in question!
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Stoneage_Caddy said:
But i dont belive in history that the minoirty took the rights away from the majoirty ....this seems to be prevalant in post 1960s America ....and really bad post 1992....

Just wait ralph .....youll get hit hard by this ....
One day youll get passed up for a promotion , becuse they needed someone of a diffrent race because they want to look like a fair workplace .....and they will tell you this .....

then after you quit youll get in your car , that if you only knew you pay more for insureance on becuse your a single white male under 25....

youll go to school , and there 2 rows over from you you hear this white girl talking about how gorgues that black guy in in the parklinglot and youll hear her bash white men ...you cant get a home or an apartment becuse , your not married and since your not a minoirty you dont qualify for any houseing acts ....

why do we need a "race" collum on a job application ?
Well, historically, I think the minorities actually did become the majority. Look how many Irish-Americans are running around out there. Look how many Italians run website now ;).

As a matter of fact, I'm quite sure I have been passed over for jobs several times for jobs because I wasn't a Native Canadian ("Employment Equity" as it is called here). I'm with you on that one.

We don't pay insurance here based on race or gender. The government owns the insurance industry here (though we do have private insurers who can sell their own policies). Everyone pretty much pays the same unless they have a bad driving record.

I never really cared if some white chick was drooling over some black guy, because the black chick behind her was drooling over me! And so was the Chinese babe, and the Russian girl ...

But there should definitely not be a "race column" on job forms. "Race" is really a pretty hard thing to define sociologically. What if you're half Swedish, half-Zulu? They use "race" as a designation because few people in the New World are intelligent enough to distinguish between the real differences, which are ethnic. North America is becoming increasingly ethnically mixed, so it's high time governments began being more complex in their outlooks and reverted to "best person for the job".
 

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Cadillac Maniac
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Ralph said:
I'm not really taking issue with what you guys are saying, but I do find it interesting that this is a debate which has indeed happened before in North American history, in much the same terms.
Before I read on, do you realize how short a time it took Europeans to settle in and merge/flourish into society? - Adapting to American customs?
 

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Cadillac Maniac
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Exactly. I thought race didn't exist? Or this is atleast what they're trying to portray.. Also, medical science is working on race-specific medications! But, no.. There's no such thing as race. We're all exactly the same...

What boils my blood is how my 12 year old niece comes home from school questioning her own race as to it's importance in history/society. Her school teaches her about how many mistakes we've made (as whites) and all the wrong-doing we've done. She's going to a Catholic school! And she comes home from school having no pride in being who she is. What the hell is going on here?!

Stoneage_Caddy said:
But i dont belive in history that the minoirty took the rights away from the majoirty ....this seems to be prevalant in post 1960s America ....and really bad post 1992....

Just wait ralph .....youll get hit hard by this ....

One day youll get passed up for a promotion , becuse they needed someone of a diffrent race because they want to look like a fair workplace .....and they will tell you this .....then after you quit youll get in your car , that if you only knew you pay more for insureance on becuse your a single white male under 25....youll go to school , and there 2 rows over from you you hear this white girl talking about how gorgues that black guy in in the parklinglot and youll hear her bash white men ...you cant get a home or an apartment becuse , your not married and since your not a minoirty you dont qualify for any houseing acts ....

youll realize your obselete ...and youll start to think your rasict becuse your jelous of the oppertunity they get .....while you struggle ....

then youll get to my point , if i had one wish , id wish i was black ....

Evevryone made such a big deal about how were all the same under that skin .....why did we never get that far ?

Doctor Martin Luther King surely must be turning 9700 RPM in his grave ....but at least tampa made up for some of it and named every other street Dr Martin Luther King ...and made speical signs that dont abbriviate any of it .....yet i dont see any "President Abrham Lincolin" Streets ...and if it wasnt for him The doctor would have been in a field somewhere trying to figure out what jamed the cotton gin up this time.....

Im sorry if it all sounds rasicst .....but i am sick and tired of folks thinking were doing the right thing ...but when you boil the water you find were giving homes, jobs, and money to people because there "diffrent"..... were all human ....folks it aint that damned hard , if someone wants it theyll go out and work for it ...trust me ....

Throw the whole damn thing out the window ...

God made us look diffrent ....thats all .....why cant we accept it and move on ....

why do we need a "race" collum on a job application ?
 

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Administrator said:
Before I read on, do you realize how short a time it took Europeans to settle in and merge/flourish into society? - Adapting to American customs?
I would say they helped to create our ideas of American customs. But yes, there is the element that there was a point where American customs, or classic American tradition was brough to a peak to where it was unchangable, or entrenched if you understand what I mean by that.

Now we have to deal with the language barrier, the custom barrier, and even the religion barrier, which when you think about that one, it is far different than the customs barrier, but both closely linked together.

The general issues with the aformentioned barriers is that there is no belief in the core American customs that by certain times were entreched into our society. One could say the even when the Vietnam War was over that the refugees, or immigrants if you will, that those refugees still adapted to traditional American custom. It seems to be my understanding that after this last large wave, things began to change.

I will let you then guess why it may have gone downhill after that...

The birth of Political Correctness, or my operational definition of PC, the "everchanging of the non-offensive." That means that we are, or have been indoctrinated into believing that the beliefs we held dear for so long have been changed as to not offend those we see as foriegn.

That means it is offensive to help them to understand entreched American customs.

That means it is offensive to help them to understand American language over their own.

That means that it is offensive to educate their children, who are often born as american citizens after their arrival, in the ways that have helped to advance American society.

That means it is also offensive to help them to understand the American concept of seperation of church and state.

Does anyone understand where I am coming from here?
 

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Just watch as our country becomes less and less American, how less and less "Americans" are in office.. Once the country is run by non-Americans, there will no longer be an America..

I wish I could get some of these people who are pushing "America" out the door into a room - alone...
 

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Administrator said:
Just watch as our country becomes less and less American, how less and less "Americans" are in office.. Once the country is run by non-Americans, there will no longer be an America..

I wish I could get some of these people who are pushing "America" out the door into a room - alone...

I'll take ya on :D I trained mixed martial arts too...A while ago...:shhh: But it just so happens that I agree with you on this, so another time maybe...:p

Anyways, I take it then that you agree with what I said? America needs to educate these people into becoming part of our culture, not the other way around.
 

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Really? MMA, huh? Very cool.. You have to tell me what you studied. Yes. You must.

Otherwise. Yes, I agree with you.. Why isn't this just the way it is?!
Well, I began doing a little bit of Boxing beginning at 13 years old, so that it would keep from any trouble in the neighborhoods that I came up in. I never won anything with that like Golden Gloves, but it was a good release for about 2 years...Until I took up Tae Kwon Do.

Tae Kwon do kept me squared away for over 3 years, in which I earned a black belt...But because of a disagreement with me studying other Arts, I was pretty much kicked out of there. I was taking up some Jiu-Jitsu for about a year before they found out. I argued with them about how I wanted to be more complete in the Martial Arts, especially on the ground where I was considerably weak (heavy UFC influence for an 18 year old in those days (1996~)...), but they were less than enthusiastic about it. They told me that I was unwelcome because I was being un-loyal to my Grandmaster and his studio. I haven't seen or talked to them since...Whether or not I was ever stripped of my Black Belt there I do not know, and I do not really care anymore...It's over.

I did Jiu-Jitsu for the aforementioned year and then some until I enlisted in the United States Army, in which I fell away from that because of the enlistment. I took up some Muay-Thai while in service, but not enough to win a title or anything. Just enough to know how to use it when needs be. And let me tell you, for kick striking, that was the single most important art I took up IMO.

Unfortunately I was injured while in the Army. I cannot do even half of the things I used to be able to do. I still train on the heavy bag and attempt some kicks when I can, but for the most part, it remains to be that of Boxing strikes. Trying any grappling techniques can sometimes be more painful to me than anyone I use it on. Kicking can yield the same results as well...But some times, I can still do some interesting kicks.

However, give me a Bo-staff (something I picked up from on the side :D ), and I should still be able to swing that thing like never seen before :devil:

As for America, there will come a time when we will lose our American identity completely. I wonder, how many people will be willing to let that happen should they be convinced of what we are saying here is true? Basically what I am trying to communicate is that we, as Americans need to start spreading these words to the rest of the nation and perhaps beyond. I have a bad feeling about our future should we remain quite about this...
 

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Boy did this thread go into some weird directions. MMA huh? Me too. Remember I was a teenager in the early 70's, Bruce Lee was the MAN for me! The wild stuff we used to do back then....ahh the good old days.
As for American loosing it's identity, somehow I doubt that. Afterall, America has long been known as a "melting pot" and that would mean we as a nation will take on an ever-changing personality due to the ever-changing influences by those coming here from abroad. I know it "seems" like it's getting bad but that's mainly just in densly populated areas. Once you get out of the big cities, it's a different story. Still, my biggest issue is when legislators try to pass laws and such that allow foreigners to come here and NOT become American. IMO, if they come here, they need to learn and respect OUR language and traditions, not expect us to all of a sudden honor theirs.
I should be able to wish someone a Merry Christmas without worrying about whether I insulted them. Like it or not American is a CHRISTIAN country. CHRISTIAN beliefs are very ingrained in our culture and it should stay that way IMO. In God We Trust should ALWAYS be on our money. Presidents should always be sworn in while holding a hand on a Bible. You get the idea.
 

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What makes America "America" is the fact that we've blended so many different cultures into our own. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell are two of our most popular fast food restaurants, does that tell you anything?

What's splitting America right now is all this over-sensitivity. The very people who are telling us to be TOLERANT are the most INTOLERANT.

There is ONE culture that refuses to blend and adapt. There is ONE culture that didn't CHOOSE to come here. There is ONE culture that is doing most of the complaining and playing the political correctness and race cards at every opportunity. Notice I said "culture" not race.

Members of this race who came into this country by choice don't seem to have any problems. Members of this race who have emmigrated into other countries where they are a minority race don't seem to have any problems either. It's just here in the good old U.S. of A. Kipling wrote about it 100 years ago and he didn't even know he was talking about us.

The sad thing about it is that it's not about race at all. It's only about an attitude that is perpetuated in every election. I have no idea how to fix it or if it's even possible. Something tells me it's going to get worse before it gets better.
 

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Im gonna buy this boat ....and brett , being rich and shit is gonna put gas in it for me ....im gonna give free rides back to you know where .....

they can trade the escalades for loincloths and rice .....and feel free again , unopressed and everything ....
 

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That's been tried before. The KKK has been offering free passage back to Africa for any black who wants to go for years.
I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the "they're angry because they didn't "choose" to come here" theory. If THAT were the case, they'd leave and go home, but they don't. And why? Because overall, Africa is not a great place to live. Very dangerous place to try to live for many reasons. Maybe THAT's what the REAL issue is. As much as they like to play-up being "AFRICAN" they realize that America is a far better place to be but they'll never admit it.

I mean come on people (blacks), get over it for Christ's sake. The whole slavery thing is a dead issue and has been for over 100 years! How the hell long do you think we (the white man) should be responsible for all your problems? Stop trying to play both ends against the middle. You must at some point take responsibility for your own actions and your future as a people.

Just a personal point;
I persoanlly love seeing black people on TV that can speak english and articulate their feelings like an intelligent person. Every time I see a black person perpetuating the negative black stereotype, it pains me. And in the same way, I feel very good about seeing/hearing a black person who shuns that stereotype and behaves intelligent and honorable. Perfect example would be in a couple of our local professional sports teams. The Philadelphia Eagles "had" a black player that has been in the news lately (T.O.). I can't stand the guy. He's a self-centered, loud-mouthed, arrogant, showboater. I'm glad he's gone. On the flip-side we also have Donovan McNabb. A well-spoken, intelligent, humble guy. Both are great atheletes but I can tell you that McNabb is a guy that I would want my kids to look at as a role model. He's no trash-talker. He comes off as an honorable guy. Another good example would be Tiki Barber. You notice he's quite possibly the MVP on his team, has great star-power, and is well known. Yet when he made the big plays yesterday, I didn't notice him showboating afterwards like so many others do. He too is a well-spoken, seemingly intelligent guy that should be held up as a role model for young African-Americans. But no, instead the lion's share of young blacks seem to rather gravitate towards trash-talking, gutter slime like T.O. and all the rappers out there.
What's important to black youths? THAT's what we should ALL be concerned about. Finding ways to make sure that violence, money, and power are NOT synonomous. Knowledge and power are. I can only hope that guys like McNabb and Barber become more the rule than the exception when the rest of us think about black men.
 

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Katshot said:
That's been tried before. The KKK has been offering free passage back to Africa for any black who wants to go for years.
I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the "they're angry because they didn't "choose" to come here" theory.
That's not my theory, exactly. My theory is that it's very easy to get a discontented group riled up to do (or not do) whatever you want them to. It starts with the "didn't choose to come here" attitude, but it has expanded into an attitude of entitlement.

"I didn't choose to come here, you kept me down for 100 years, now it's too late for me to achieve anything on my own, too late for me to go back where my people came from--so it's YOUR responsibility to provide for me."

A third of the electorate buys into this theory, another third rejects it entirely. The rest of us point to all the success stories.
 
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