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So I know this has been posted about many many times but reading through all the threads I have yet to find a straight answer. Looking to do a complete coolant flush on my 4.9 in a '91 DeVille and looking to find how many supplement tabs to put in. I can get Bar's Leaks HDC Radiator Stop Leak Tablet or GM Fluid 12378255 Cooling System Seal Tablet . The Bars has 6-10 gram tabs (total of 60 grams) and the Delco pack has 5 -4 gram tabs (20 grams total). Any help with which is better and how many of each kind would be greatly appreciated.
PS I tried finding the Bar's Golden seal powder but can't seem to find it anywhere (none of the packages say golden seal on them). Thanks for the help.
 

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1991 Cadillac Brougham D'Elegance 5.7 Litre, 1994 DeVille
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I think for the Delco pack you're supposed to put them all in but I've always just used 1/2. The ones I've gotten came with 6.

The consensus around here is that the supplement is no longer required so you're opening up a big can of worms asking that question. Having said that I still use the stuff every time the coolant is changed.
 

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this stuff was helping seal an upper radiator hose for a while on my car. I just recently diagnosed the leak and today put a new hose on. Problem solved. The bars was definitely doing its job
 

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1926 Model T street rod, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 1999 Corvette.
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Early 4100's had aluminum casting porosity problems. Rather than replace the short block under warranty, they came up with the pellet fix. They started a campaign mailing flyers to current owners. The flyer was a coupon to get a free oil change and a change of coolant. When they changed the coolant they had us drop in crushed pellets. The porosity allowed coolant to seep out, the pellets fixed that as long as it was replaced along with new coolant every 24 months. A decal was placed on the radiator support giving those instructions. The real point was to lower warrantee costs and get the engine to last 36 months! Because we're long past 3 years on these engines and have no porosity problems IMO the pellets are not needed at all. They stain the recovery tank, plug up heater cores and for no good reason. They do not prevent head gasket or intake manifold gasket failure. Old worn out coolant leads to that. Just drain the coolant every 24 months. Intake gaskets get eaten away by dissimilar metals ( cast iron heads mated to an aluminum block) Weak old coolant looses the additives over time and the PH changes and leads to gasket failure. I was an assistant service manager from 1979 till about 1990. Never saw a head gasket failure but saw intake gasket failures weekly. The coolant would leak internally and dump coolant onto the camshaft flattening the cam lobes and pitting the crankshaft bearings.
 

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The Bar's Leaks sealant tablets are # HDC. The powder (exactly the same stuff) is # G12BP.

If the system has no weeps or tiny leaks, don't use the stuff. period.

GM came out with a TSB on the subject back in 2003,4, or 5. Says not to use them as a part of normal maintenance/coolant changes - of course the hard copy service manuals and radiator cover stickers were never updated. Find an online source for GM TSBs for either your car or the Deville line. Technical Service Bulletins.

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I think for the Delco pack you're supposed to put them all in but I've always just used 1/2. The ones I've gotten came with 6.
The consensus around here is that the supplement is no longer required ......
You were supposed to use 3 (Northstar), crushed in the lower radiator hose.

It's not a "consensus" - it's spelled out in the ?? 2003 ?? GM Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) that discontinued the use of the tablets for any GM engine as a matter of routine coolant maintenance procedure. The TSB specifically states that "If it is determined that use of the coolant supplement is warranted, a specific service bulletin will be issued for that engine". To date none have been issued for these engines - only for the Buick 3.8, and that has expired.

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From the stickys on the main Northstar page -

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-engines-system-technical-discussion/139361-everything-you-ever-wanted-know-about.html

From Cadillac Tech Tips. Read the whole thread - and posts 1 and 3.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips-how-fix/118096-cooling-system-seal-tabs.html#post1224513
 

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I just realized this is why I have a campaign sticker or two from when the original owner took the car in for servicing. I saw one of the tags at 38K and recommending another at 98K.

My system still has residual buildup from the tabs. I need to clean my overflow and drain and refill soon.

I do not plan on using the tabs. There's enough of that in my system as is.
 

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1991 Cadillac Brougham D'Elegance 5.7 Litre, 1994 DeVille
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It's not a "consensus" - it's spelled out in the ?? 2003 ?? GM Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) that discontinued the use of the tablets for any GM engine as a matter of routine coolant maintenance procedure. The TSB specifically states that "If it is determined that use of the coolant supplement is warranted, a specific service bulletin will be issued for that engine". To date none have been issued for these engines - only for the Buick 3.8, and that has expired.
It is consesnus because the engineer who designed these engines still advised to use the tabs despite the TSB and this is virtually the only Cadillac site that is against their use. By the time that the TSB came out they were used for over 20 years in the 4100/4.5/4.9 without problems when directions were followed properly and there's still no harm in using them. The links also say this which covers these cars:

A Secondary Benefit
The traditional green-colored coolant, used until DEXCOOL® was introduced in 1996, contained silicates, which deposit on cooling system surfaces. The tiny fibres from the seal tabs acted as scouring pads, removing silicate deposits from the water pump seal faces, which contributed to longer water pump seal life.
Some History
There was a time when seal tabs were installed in every new vehicle, at the factory, to account for the inevitable small leaks that occur in castings, joints, and so on. By the mid ‘90s, manufacturing and machining techniques had improved to the point where the seal tabs were no longer needed on a universal basis.

With the introduction of long-life coolant, silicate deposits were no longer a concern, so the scrubbing action from the seal tab fibres was no longer needed.
I know you won't stop so i'm done, there's enough information out there that the original poster can read and make their own decision on what to do.
 

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Well, apparently GM finds that 'engineer' to be incorrect.

FWIW, I've run numerous 4.x's to 250k and above. I know I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but at a time when I was putting myself through school paying cash, everything was minimal. I ran my 50/50 Dex/tap water fill (GASP!) to component failure, mileage or time be damned. On refill, I never used the supplement. Never leaked or burned a drop of coolant.

I can't honestly report any problems attributed to what I was or wasn't putting into the radiator. On top of that, on other cars I've maintained, I've never witnessed any of the concerns that drove GM to recommend the supplement to begin with. Makes me wonder if the early recommendation was simply 'in case' and 'why not' protection from uncertainty of new manufacturing processes rather than a response to actual acknowledged problems.

All of that said, your car's cooling system is extremely simple, and very robust. When it comes to real world performance, coolant type, water cleanliness, and supplements really aren't the rocket science enthusiasts like to make it out to be. I really don't see any significant negative consequences from the use or omission of the supplement. Any clogs in the system are always due to grossly excessive additives, well beyond even GM's old recommendation.

Of course, GM knows best - or at least better than anyone on this board. If they says no supplement, then you can't go wrong following that advice.
 

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I recently bought a 1985 Eldorado and mileage might be 134k or only 34k. How am I to know for sure about the mileage? I will say the car was supposedly owned by an old lady who drove it rarely--
bUT AFTER CHANGING THE OIL I SEE THE OIL LOOKING CLEAN AS NEW after driving a month or so. Car looks like it has been maintained regularly.
Question is about radiator maintenance.
Should I use radiator flush AND the sealant pills? There are absolutely no water leaks.
I am reading all comments pertaining to this subject and am leaning toward only flushing and putting in new coolant.
One thing I did originally notice was that the engine was extremely HOT after some of my 1st drives.
Someone please help me with this advice because this is my last money and I can't fix any more roofs here in S. Florida as I am retired and can't do ANY work now. No dinero to replace this engine , which runs great ( except for the engine almost dying when I 1st use the car -until it warms up ).
 

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?? HOT ?? Use an IR thermometer to look at the idling coolant temp in the thermostat area. 200 - 210 degrees is good. Maybe 215 after a slow city run.

If you have no coolant weeps now I would follow Cadillac's engine coolant TSB advice and not use the sealant tablets/powder. Read my post of 12/26/15.

FWIW, this thread has been dead for over 3 years. There is more current advice on coolant, temps, and sealants in other forums/threads. Look at the post dates in here.
 

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Thank you very much for your reply. That seals the deal for me as to my decision to not add tablets since I have no leaks.
Would you happen to know about my other situation which is that after starting it takes several minutes to run correctly. It wants to die when I accelerate . After that period she runs correctly.
 

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Not all that familiar with the 1985 - but I'd guess that plugs, wires, maybe new ignition module, throttlebody cleaning, injector checks/cleaning ad a thorough check for leaky vacuum lines would smooth things out. No reasons whatsoever to start throwing away money on air intakes, cutesy aftermarket filters, and such.

You should have the 4.1 engine. It has barely enough power to move the car but little else. Keep it clean and enjoy the car for what it is - a slow daily driver.

Use a Top Tier gasoline in the recommended octane range. Google it.

The engine oil should stay pretty clean for a LONG time. No need for snake oils.
 

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Thank you so very much for answering my plea. Finding this forum is exciting for me as people like yourself who are Caddy fans really help each other. This is my 1st Caddy and no intention of selling or trading. By the way this motor has tons of power and the 1st thing I noticed is how fast it will zoom off the line at a stop light. It seems a little hard to keep the steering under control though. Seems to wander out of a lane rather easily if you know what I mean. It takes constant vigilance to keep in the lane.
 

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I think for the Delco pack you're supposed to put them all in but I've always just used 1/2. The ones I've gotten came with 6.

The consensus around here is that the supplement is no longer required so you're opening up a big can of worms asking that question. Having said that I still use the stuff every time the coolant is changed.
Where might I ask is "around here' ? Also you still use the pills when you change coolant, how often is that , and is that all you do now, change coolant with no flush?
I just bought my 1985 Eldo and the prev. owner had the rad flushed at an oil change franchise 2 years ago. He stated that he had not driven more than a few hundred miles since and the Caddy arrived with the freshest and slipperiest lime green coolant I have seen in a rad. I was going to do a flush but have you ever read the steps you are instructed to go through?
Step 1, change coolant, step 2 drive to Miami and back, step 3 change coolant again, step 3, well I'll tell everyone if I ever come back from Miami... In other words it is aot of work, I prefer the trip to the oil change outlet rather than 2 days messing with my radiator.
How about a flush at "Oil change USA", and make sure they drop in 3 tabs of the cleaning pills?
 

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Also does anyone know where to buy re-man parts , like tail light lens replacements for 1985 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz? or arm rest door panels etc. etc.?
 

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No need to change coolant, drive, change it again. If you read some of the recommended procedures on flush product packaging you'l find that it recommends draining, install flush and water, drive, come back, drain, rinse, install 50/50 coolant. The sequence is the equivalent of a washing machine wash - soak - rinse - refill cycle.

.............and make sure they drop in 3 tabs of the cleaning pills?
The tablets are not "cleaning pills - they are sealant tablets, used on the production line to prevent assembly weeps and leak which caused nuisance warranty returns for new cars. The tablets are made up of ground walnut, ginger root, other fibers and some acid neutralizer powder. They work just like a beaver dam in miniature - the fibers collect at a weep point, clump together, dry out, and form a "seal". GM discovered that excessive use, as well as use during normal recommended coolant changes caused excessive gunk buildup in the cooling system, thus clogging small cooling passages, heater cores, and coolant piping.

Modern coolants - even good ol Green Goddess - are fortified with anything necessary to prevent corrosion and water pump seal wear. The tablets are now redundant. The old green coolants used to have high concentrations of silicates which tended to damage water pump seals. Not now. Green coolants have been reformulated as "low siicate" or "no silicate" products.

Very little or no such thing as "reman" trim parts for our old cars. Look into www.car-part.com and www.cadillacheaven.com. Online parts yards.
 
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