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1998 Seville STS
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787 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
[Ignore this if you don't like computers]

Is AMD/ATI out for the count? I think they are at least for 2007. 2008 better be a storm if they want to come back. With a new fiscal year starting they have less time to catch up.

AMD released a few new low TDP at about 45W which keeps supporting my theory. With their ATI devision unvealing the new R600 series, the HD X1x00, and no intentions of launching a high end competitor to nVidia's G80 this could get ugly.

So what happened? Was it the merger? Was it the development time spent on the Xbox 360/Wii? What could have let ATI fall so far behind? Before the X1xx0 series they dominated the scene. Their X850 XT PE raped anything nVidia brought it. It was the building stones to what would evolve into the Xenos (or is it Xenon I always get those two confused) and later the X19x0 XT series.

AMD's Barcelona still hasn't matured and with Intel's Penryn right around the corner AMD needs something more then just filler CPUs. They haven't made a new CPU almost in year. They've been claiming that it is due them moving from 90nm to 65nm. And with Intel's Nehalem already showing road blocks for a 45nm HOLY SHIT!

AMD's price cuts didn't even phase when Intel decided to drop their prices. Intel's ability to produce chips at probably double the rate AMD could well...lets just say they didn't care.

2008 looks promising for the Intel Fanboy (me!) with the 3-Series Intel is bringing up. I was explaining it to a friend and pointed out how the new naming scheme follows the car naming scheme.

The X38 will be the NB for hardcore gamers with a ICH9/10 on the SB. Sticking in there a nice Quad-Core Penryn and matching it with true-dedicated 1066mhz DDR3. Intel will finally offer integrated Dual 16X PCIe channels that with software modding supposedly go either way, XFire or SLI, but only time will tell and I smell lawsuit if Intel were to do that. But it was hinted at that it will be definately SLI compatible and that makes me wonder if Intel struck a deal with nVidia.

But the ATI fanboys (ME!!) might be hurting as a new discovery of the HD X1900 XT showed that AMD didn't use full GPU off-loading for digital codecs. That doesn't suck much if you have a good decent computer but whats the point in dishing out all this money on a GPU that can't handle Blu-Ray/HD-DVD decoding on the fly? I know the GeFore 8x00 series offers full off-loading for current standard digital codecs, not current competitive future codecs, but it just makes you feel like ATI just doesn't care anymore.


Ahhh the computer world. Apple teaming with Intel, AMD buying out ATI, Intel returning to the champion, nVidia outperforming ATI at every category, and something I thought I'd never see - Intel's Pentium name will not be discontinued but it will no longer be the flagship name, the Pentium line-up will be a step above the Celeron line-up with feature decisions to eliminate the Celeron name altogether. That will be a sad day.

2008 looks to be very interesting.
 

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2009 Z06 / 2013 F150 EcoBeast / 2008 Twin-Turbo Bimmer
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4,860 Posts
Speaking for many of us on this forum ----- Huh? :nothing2add:

Grew up without computers, didn't have them at work, at home or in our cars and we got along in life just fine and dare I say...Better.

Where's that global EM pulse when one needs one?

:cow:
 

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Premium Member
2006 STS V8 AWD, '95 Ford Ranger
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28,974 Posts
I used to want the fastest and flashiest computer alive. I've been in the field for 45 years. Guess what? After dozens of tries I finally achieved all the performance I need, to do anything I want to do, on a computer. I'm free! I don't need to build another one in the forseeable future. I have way more spare time to spend on other projects. I spend time with my family. I have a life.
 

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Unicycle
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I too used to be into all the computer stuff...

but now there is just... too much... too hard to keep up with.

I built my computer over 2 years ago, and I've been plenty happy with it... there comes a time when... just how much computing power do you need to browse the web? which is really all I do on mine... only thing I can see upgrading in a long time would be memory and a biger hard drive.
 

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Now: 2008 STS-V, 1960 Eldorado Brougham Then: 2002 Escalade
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I want to build a new computer really badly. I already have the case, I just cant decide on the insides for the life of me. Once I get a job and get some money together I may decide, but there isn't anything that jumps right out at me. My P4 2.6ghz is doing just fine.
 

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2005 DeVille
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As a rule, I never buy a chip other than Intel. I got burned on Cyrix years ago. I can't bad mounth AMD but I prefer Intel. My new laptop which is 2 week old has an Nvidia controller. Normally I really do not care about video but I wanted something that could play the latest games should I want to.

If I were going to build my own system, I'd focus on a dual CPU, SCSI, and all the components that had the largest bus and cache memory. These computers will last a long time.

Oh and dkozloski, we all have lives. For some of us, it is part of how we make a living and it interest us. That doesn't make us losers by nature or Dungeons and Dragon playing losers.
 

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95 Fleetwood Brougham / 01 DTS / 11 CTS Lux / 11 DTS Platinum
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Intel all the way. I hate AMD with a passion. Everything they brag about doing well has nothing to do with real world applications. Look at the Core 2 Duo. Totally new architecture.

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/core2duo/index.htm?iid=homepage+c2d

Also stay away form ATI graphics. You'll have nothing but software headaches. Stick with the best nVidia model you can afford.

Mobo; I'm very partial to Supermicro or Abit. The high end Abit boards or even Asus are nice but I personally always buy Supermicro boards.

RAM; Crucial is the only solution. Weather it's the Balistix series or the regular RAM Crucial is awesome memory. There are other just as good but Crucial has proven to be extremely stable, even overclocked to the extreme.

Hard Drive. SCSI is outdated. SAS or 15k rpm SATA will outperform any SCSI drive and cost you half as much. I only buy Western Digital. I go with the 10k RPM Raptor.

Did I miss anything? I've been in this industry professionally for 12 years. The things I mention here are time tested and proven year after year.
 

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1998 Seville STS
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787 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Ah RAMBUS. I remember when Intel was totting their support for RAMBUS and how RIMMs would outperform DIMMs and DDR. How things turn out. Intel lost a chunk of their support, I think this is where AMD really punched Intel in the face the hardest. Intel stumbled and still denied DDR until finally they had no choice.

Intel's Core 2 Duo architecture is amazing. This is what Intel needed. The last almost-decade Intel has been having its ass handed to it. But finally Intel comes up. The Net Burst technology was the anchor they should have cut off when they switched over to the Pentium 4.

ATI has always had better driver support then nVidia. When nVidia showed up on the scene ATI was a fat cat. But the competition really woke it up. And then the Radeon series helped ATI climb back to the top. ATI's success and GPU revolutions is what caused Microsoft to dub nVidia, GPU for the Xbox, and hire them for the Xbox 360. I'm still an ATI fanboy but AMD is seriously dragging them down. Up until the Geforce 8x00 series ATI's boards have always outperformed nVidia in scaling competitions. In raw no-AA/AF (and now Super-AA/AF) nVidia walked away smiling but who wants to run games without those features? The new HD-series is a disgrace and ATI better make up for it!

I can't wait for Penryn. The increase cache per die is going to be insane! Barcelona has a lot of work to do if it wasn't to steal any of Intel's steam.

I can't wait for when Quad-Core becomes the standard.
 

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2015 BMUU 335i MSport, 2006 STS-V--2005 CTS-V ( traded in)
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As with any "war" that has two fair competitors, be it in CPUs or GPUs it's a constant competition with who is on top for that moment in a particular area.

If they're good they get their next competing product to market before their competition and will be on top for some small while. But then along comes the other guy with the new thing and takes the price/performance crown, again probably for 6 months to a year. If they stumble and have a poor FAB process or some other glitch then they will probably lose the top seat for even longer.

The marriage of AMD and ATI isn't a big thing for the extreme consumer or hardware enthusiast. It speaks to a future business model of combined platforms, motherboards that run onboard graphics inside of chipsets optimized toward a CPU (possible future CPU/GPU combo). What most mass produced OEM PCs and laptops are selling currently. The VAST majority of PC/laptop customers don't need or want the high end fastest CPU and GPU in their machine. They want what will do the job for the cheapest price. Servers really are not concerned with graphics, they need enough to run a display. High end gamers and CAD/CAM or Graphics designers have graphics cards built specifically toward them, but percentage wise the "500 dollar" video card is a small piece of the overall market, much less the 1500.00 CAD card.

The current Intel "Quad Core" is really two dual cores on the same die, not the true product. But it will come as both companies work to increase on die performance and reduce manufacturing costs. Intel stumbled with RAMBUS to a large degree and Itanium allowing AMD to excel for a bit. But we'll see who runs with the ball the next couple of years.
 

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All I wish is that they'd stop naming the new processors coming out...instead, just putting the next number on the list...it was easy to know what you were getting when it was P-P2-P3-P4...now it's all these flashy damn names...they need to make it easier.
 

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2006 STS V8 AWD, '95 Ford Ranger
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All I wish is that they'd stop naming the new processors coming out...instead, just putting the next number on the list...it was easy to know what you were getting when it was P-P2-P3-P4...now it's all these flashy damn names...they need to make it easier.
Madison Avenue has won out over reason and logic again!
 

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1998 Seville STS
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787 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Actually, the P1-P4 also had names like the current generation. It represented their stepping and instructions. Ever remember seeing the b or c and then the d after a clock speed?

The new naming scheme is to seperate the difference in the processors in the same manner. Except now they have more cores to distinguish thus more names.

You can but the Core 2 in Quad and Dual and later on Single core. Then there is the cache differences and the FSB rating. Etc.
 

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I've noticed that a lot of ads for pre-built machines like those found at best buy have just stopped mentioning clock speeds, front-side bus, etc. As if to say dual core is all you need to know.
 

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1998 Seville STS
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Discussion Starter #18
I can explain the Intel side of it. My cousin works at Best Buy and he was told by his manager not to address the Clock speeds of the new Core 2 series.

When he had a customer looking at a computer he couldn't make the customer understand the new Core 2 system, I think he was selling them one with an E4300, was clocked less but ran faster. The customer had a P4 2.6ghz but the E4300 I believe is clocked at 1.8ghz. Sooo he was told not to address that unless it was brought up.

As for the AMDs they've never really stated their clock speeds. It was always the P4 equivalent rating.
 

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95 Fleetwood Brougham / 01 DTS / 11 CTS Lux / 11 DTS Platinum
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It's difficult to make people understand what clock speed even is and how it relates to system performance. Although it's simple to someone who gets it, for those who don't it makes their heads spin.

The worst part of that is manufacturers can use that lack of knowledge as marketing leverage to sell things that don't really matter.
 

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Nah, AMD is alive and kicking. Once the Phenom chips come out, Intel will have a run for the money.

The funny thing is that AMD beats Intel clock for clock, intel just clocks better. Plus AMD has much better pricing.

I am running an X2 3600 [email protected] 2.85GHZ and a Biostar Tforce 550 that scores great with E6300-E6400 and I am running it much cheaper. The synthetic tests make Intel look supreme, but real world gaming and applications are MUCH closer.

ATI isn't in trouble either, the HD2900XT is doing MUCH better with the revised drivers, it is out scoring an 8800GTS 640MB now.

Nvidia is still the better value right now though, hell I am using a Geforce 8600GTS and it kicks the crap out of the X1950 Pro under 1600x1200.
 
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