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2004 EXT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so i thought my car dried out but it seems to be throwing the above codes.

P0700 - Transmission Control System Malfunction
P2176 - Which i cant seem to find a description for

Originally it was throwing alot more codes but those went away and these two just popped up this morning. Furthermore to help with diagnosis I recently Seafoamed the engine (through the intake hose) and gas tank. a bottle in each. This was prior to my stupidity with the engine cleaning. The car starts but then starts reving over 1000 rpms. Its gotten as high as 2000 rpms. Please help with diagnosis as i never found any similar problems reported regarding this issue.
 

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CTS 3.6L 2005 80,000 Miles
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983 Posts
Ok so i thought my car dried out but it seems to be throwing the above codes.

P0700 - Transmission Control System Malfunction
P2176 - Which i cant seem to find a description for

Originally it was throwing alot more codes but those went away and these two just popped up this morning. Furthermore to help with diagnosis I recently Seafoamed the engine (through the intake hose) and gas tank. a bottle in each. This was prior to my stupidity with the engine cleaning. The car starts but then starts reving over 1000 rpms. Its gotten as high as 2000 rpms. Please help with diagnosis as i never found any similar problems reported regarding this issue.


Sounds like the problem still with your TPS and TPM. See below.


Alldata info

Your Vehicle: 2005 Cadillac CTS V6-3.6L VIN 7




Vehicle » Powertrain Management » Computers and Control Systems » Testing and Inspection » Diagnostic Trouble Code Tests and Associated Procedures » P Code Charts » P2176 Notes


P2176

DTC P2176

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
The engine control module (ECM) controls the throttle valve by applying a varying voltage to the throttle actuator control (TAC) motor. The ECM monitors the actual throttle valve position using throttle position (TP) sensor 1 and 2. If the ECM detects that TP sensor 1 and 2 voltages are not within a specified range during the throttle learn procedure or the throttle learn procedure is not learned after an ECM replacement, this DTC sets.

DTC DESCRIPTOR
This diagnostic procedure supports the following DTC:
DTC P2176 Minimum Throttle Position Not Learned

CONDITIONS FOR RUNNING THE DTC
The engine speed is less than 40 RPM .
The vehicle speed is 0 km/h (0 mph) .
The engine coolant temperature (ECT) is between 5-85°C (41-185°F) .
The intake air temperature (IAT) is more than 5-60°C (41-140°F) .
The accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor angle is less than 14.9 percent .
The ignition 1 voltage is more than 10 volts .
DTC P2176 run continuously once the above conditions are met for more than 1 second .
CONDITIONS FOR SETTING THE DTC
The ECM detects that the TP sensor 1 voltage is not between 0.2-0.9 volts during the throttle learn procedure.OR
The ECM detects that the TP sensor 2 voltage is not between 4.2-4.8 volts during the throttle learn procedure.OR
The minimum throttle position is not learned after an ECM replacement.
Any of the above conditions exist for more than 4 seconds .
ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC SETS
The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) when the diagnostic runs and fails.
The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The control module stores this information in the Freeze Frame/Failure Records.
CONDITIONS FOR CLEARING THE MIL/DTC
A current DTC, Last Test Failed, clears when the diagnostic runs and passes.
Clear the MIL and the DTC with a scan tool.
DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
Use the J 35616 Connector Test Adapter Kit for any test that requires probing the ECM harness connector or a component harness connector.
The lower connector of the ECM is connector C1 and the upper connector of the ECM is connector C2. Refer to Computers and Control Systems Component Views.
Inspect for a condition in which the throttle valve may have been held open. For example, ice may have formed in the throttle bore.
The throttle valve is spring loaded to a slightly open position. The throttle valve should be open approximately 2-5 percent . This is referred to as the rest position. The throttle valve should not be completely closed, nor should the throttle valve be open any more than the specified amount. The throttle valve should move open and to the closed position without binding under normal spring pressure. The throttle should NOT be free to move open or closed WITHOUT spring pressure. Replace the throttle body if any of these conditions are found.
If the conditions for running the DTC are out of range, this DTC will not be able to be cleared until the ECM learns the throttle position.
For an intermittent condition, refer to Intermittent Conditions. See: Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview\Diagnostic Strategies\Intermittent Conditions
 

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2004 EXT
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305 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
update. P0700 - Transmission Control System Malfunction code was noted as history and once cleared only the P2176 - Throttle Position Not Learned came back. Then P0507 - Idle High code was thrown. Im guessing not being a mechanic or anything that it has to do with my throttle body. I pulled of the intake hoses and it looks like theres some brownish slug over the vents is this supposed to be there or should i pull throttle body assembly from the car and clean it?

Briggy - I read enclosed diagnosis but im confused by it...Im not a mechanic so is there a more simplistic way of explaining this to me?
 

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CTS 3.6L 2005 80,000 Miles
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983 Posts
update. P0700 - Transmission Control System Malfunction code was noted as history and once cleared only the P2176 - Throttle Position Not Learned came back. Then P0507 - Idle High code was thrown. Im guessing not being a mechanic or anything that it has to do with my throttle body. I pulled of the intake hoses and it looks like theres some brownish slug over the vents is this supposed to be there or should i pull throttle body assembly from the car and clean it?

Briggy - I read enclosed diagnosis but im confused by it...Im not a mechanic so is there a more simplistic way of explaining this to me?
Check out the flow chart that I just posted. Since the transmission control module depends on the TPS to operate it's safe to assume they are related. Looks to me that the ECM got reset with regards to the TPM. So it has to relearn everything. I didn't read the flow chart fully but it seems to have a reset procedure just follow step by step.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
No drinking beer just yet.....I think that your right it has to be the throttle body somewhere.....How do i go about cleaning it and the sensors attached? I feel that i just need to get it cleaned out and go from there. furthermore here are some new codes getting thrown at me.

5. P0507 - Idle Speed High
6. P2176 - Minimum Throttle Position Not Learned
7. C1278 - TCS Temporarily Inhibited By PCM

I am determined to fix this car....even though its been a real FFFFFING PAIN!
 

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CTS 3.6L 2005 80,000 Miles
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983 Posts
No drinking beer just yet.....I think that your right it has to be the throttle body somewhere.....How do i go about cleaning it and the sensors attached? I feel that i just need to get it cleaned out and go from there. furthermore here are some new codes getting thrown at me.

5. P0507 - Idle Speed High
6. P2176 - Minimum Throttle Position Not Learned
7. C1278 - TCS Temporarily Inhibited By PCM

I am determined to fix this car....even though its been a real FFFFFING PAIN!

Beer always comes first. .... read the part two of my post. It has the procedure for the ECM to relearn the minimum throttle position. Start off by trying that. I'm almost 100% sure this is your problem.

BTW we just moved from domestic to import.
 

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CTS 3.6L 2005 80,000 Miles
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do i need as scan tool or can i use the oBII?

If you have an 03 your CEL information should be able to show on your console. I forget the button combination. look it up on the forum. So no need for a scanner. The car has a built in one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
i used both a diagnostic tool and my cars scanner. I tried resetting the idle (relearning) it but this didnt seem to work. Any thoughts suggestions
 

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CTS 3.6L 2005 80,000 Miles
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what codes are you getting now ? You may have to remove the Throttle Body in order to inspect it closer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
'high idle" and "idle throttle position not learned"! I brought it to a mechanic who cant figure out about the issue. He doesnt want to throw parts at the problem and im not sure that there is a part failure...i feel like something might need to get cleaned. PLEASE HELP THiS MUST HAVE HAPPENED TO SOMEONE BEFORE!
 

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Registered
CTS 3.6L 2005 80,000 Miles
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983 Posts
'high idle" and "idle throttle position not learned"! I brought it to a mechanic who cant figure out about the issue. He doesnt want to throw parts at the problem and im not sure that there is a part failure...i feel like something might need to get cleaned. PLEASE HELP THiS MUST HAVE HAPPENED TO SOMEONE BEFORE!

Are you sure you stepped through the relearn procedure ? It just sounds like the TPM isn't in the right position. It's either that or the TPM is faulty. If this was the case though you should be getting a code. I would at least remove the TPM and TPS and thoroughly clean it out and inspect it. Then reassemble then do the relearn procedure. If this doesn't work then bring it to a Chevrolet dealer (usually cheaper than cadillac) and have then look at it.
 

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CTS 3.6L 2005 80,000 Miles
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ok im a noob...what is the TPS and TPM?
TPS = Throttle Position Sensor


TPM = Throttle Position Modulator

CTS uses a fly by wire system, no direct connection between pedal and butterfly valve. The TPM is what actually maniupulates the butterfly valve to allow air into the system. the TPS senses the position of the TPM and tells the ECM the throttle position. The relearn position helps the ECM determine true 'closed' (actually slightly open to allow air for idle) position. Your problem is the TPM is letting in too much air and causing the car to idle high.The computer is sensing this high idle and determining that where it thinks the TPM is it actually isn't. Thus the requirement to relearn the 'close' position.

If the relearn procedure was unsuccessful (assuming you tried it step by step a few times. and I do mean step by step). Then it's possible the TPM is hanging up or defecting. So in this case I would then suggest removing the throttle body and trying to articulate the TPM manually to make sure it isn't sticking etc. Also clean it out. wash rinse and repeat then if still no luck replace the tPM.
 

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Sorry to bounce this old post, but I'm getting the exact same two codes. "Reduced Engine," rough idle, and jolts when down shifting. Did this procedure help?
 
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