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1959 Cadillac, 1980 Cadillac,Former 2005 CTS-V; now a 2009 V
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Discussion Starter #1
So tonight, a couple of people we went out with wanted to see my car. So i decide to give it a bit of gas as I take off, and ease off the clutch at around 3000RPMs, real slow off the clutch. I let off the clutch totally, but the car just crawled. Embarrased, I tried to play it off (like i was just revving the engine up). Once I got to the stop (a hundred feet or so) I put it in neutral, back into 1st, pumped the clutch once or twice, and took off just like normal. And for the next 2 minutes, easy shifting it performed just fine.
When I got back to the parking lot, my friend informed me that my clutch was clearly slipping.
Soooo he said I should put in a Z06 clutch, and pressure plate, and that I should at the same time (while the transmission's down) put in a better flywheel, a short-throw shifter, and replace the slave cylinder.
I respect his opinion more than most, and I intend to do all the above upgrades at one time, but i wanted to know everyone's thoughts first...
First off, would the above upgrades void the warranty? would they even know i'd DONE any upgrades? and are the above upgrades something you'd suggest I do? What sort of price am i looking at for PARTS (and what parts do you recommend i use, in your experience).
He also said I should use a steel flywheel rather than an aluminum flywheel. There was a reason he gave, but i'm not sure exactly what it was (and i'm not doubting him either, he knows our engines and transmissions inside and out). However, as V owners, what would you suggest I go with?
Just any ideas you can give me at this point please.
 

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2005 CTS-V
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I am surprised that you first noticed clutch slippage in first gear - normally it would become noticeable in the higher gears first. Clutch sliipage in first gear usually indicates that the condition is pretty severe.

Since the clutch is a consumable part its replacement for wear is generally not a warranty item. Whether an aftermarket clutch will affect the warranty on the rest of the car is up to the individual dealer. You might ask your dealer first. If your dealer rejects the idea of aftermarket clutches you could have it installed elsewhere because as long as you do not request warranty repairs on the clutch itself, it is unlikely the dealer will ever know.

In any event there are many previous threads on clutches and flywheels and others will likely recommend various alternatives based on their personal experinece. You should review the options based on what you intend to do to the motor in terms of future modifications and how you intend to drive the car.

If you do not intend to go beyond stock plus 100 hp, the stock clutch with or without a lightweight flywheel is entirely adequate. I am in the process of having the UUC flywheel (from Lindsay) installed in conjunction with a new stock clutch disc and pressure plate (discount priced by my dealer). The dealer has okayed this under the warranty so all is cool.

Some folks go with a Z06 clutch and flyhweel, which requires a spacer, because that opens up more future options in terms of aftermarket clutch packages including a variety of weights in flywheels.

There are several threads on the advantages of lightweight flywheels, particularly the UUC flywheel. The advantage of steel flywheels, which are usually (but not necessarily) heavier is in their ability to deal with copious amounts of heat and repeated abuse. Since I have no direct experience relevant to the steel vs. aluminum issue I will leave that discussion to those who do.

Finally, if you plan to go wild with the motor and add more than 100hp to stock, or you plan to really abuse the clutch there are several twin clutch units available that you should consider.
 

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2006 Light Platinum STS-V - 2005 Black Raven CTS-V (gone)
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277 Posts
And if all else fails, or you can't locate the proper slave cylinder shims/spacer to use a C5/F-body clutch, check the classifieds--I have a virgin stock clutch for sale.
 

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12 CTS Coupe Premium/Touring, 16 Volt, 13 911s, 07 Legacy GT Wagon
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And if all else fails, or you can't locate the proper slave cylinder shims/spacer to use a C5/F-body clutch, check the classifieds--I have a virgin stock clutch for sale.
Stock Clutch (above) plus a UUC LWFW should be the most warranty friendly.
If any dealers have a problem with a UUC LWFW let them call Lindsay and hear how the undisputed top Cadillac dealer in the world approves of it.

At least do the shifter bushings if you are nervous about a how a Short Shifter might affect your warranty (otherwise do both).

BTW - I have a UUC LWFW, that I never got around to installing on my 04.
The 05, I'm getting soon, is pre-modded so I can let the UUC LWFW go.
 

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05CTS V
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How many miles on your V? I was advised that the stock clutch is pretty robust providing it is used on the street with occasional spirited driving. Would be interesting to note what average life (of the clutch) is.......
 

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1959 Cadillac, 1980 Cadillac,Former 2005 CTS-V; now a 2009 V
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Discussion Starter #8
barely over 15,500 miles. and i haven't abused it much. to date i've never popped the clutch at 6000 RPMs. i always ease off of it, etc.

i still don't know what to do... i really don't. i don't want to void my entire warranty, but i hate the stock shifter, and i wanted to get a lighter flywheel, and aftermarket clutch :( :( :(
 

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barely over 15,500 miles. and i haven't abused it much. to date i've never popped the clutch at 6000 RPMs. i always ease off of it, etc.

i still don't know what to do... i really don't. i don't want to void my entire warranty, but i hate the stock shifter, and i wanted to get a lighter flywheel, and aftermarket clutch :( :( :(
If warranty has you stressed out :eek:
Just pick up imperators complete stock clutch
(for an awesome price)

Then, when the tranny is out, just add a UUC Shifter and Bushings.
That is a great setup :thumbsup:

LWFW would be nice but it's not worth the stress if you are nervous about your warranty.
At least the stock shifter could go back in before you made a drivetrain/rear-diff claim.
That would be the safe way to play it.
 

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2005 CTS-V
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barely over 15,500 miles. and i haven't abused it much. to date i've never popped the clutch at 6000 RPMs. i always ease off of it, etc.

i still don't know what to do... i really don't. i don't want to void my entire warranty, but i hate the stock shifter, and i wanted to get a lighter flywheel, and aftermarket clutch :( :( :(
When I wanted my dealer to install the UUC Short Shifter the area GM representative was at the dealership. The GM rep told my service writer that because the shifter was outside of the transmission it would NOT affect my warranty. The dealer wanted too much money to do the install so I installed it elsewhere but my warranty is intact.

My dealer is installing my UUC flywheel and the warranty will be intact. I did not ask about an aftermarket clutch, but I believe I could have done that too if I had wanted to, especially if I let them install it. In my case, I do not intend to make significant modifications to the motor so the stock clutch is all I need.

You might ask your dealer point blank if they will honor your warranty if you put in an aftermarket clutch because they may not care. I think many dealers recognize that on "consumable" components, such as brake pads, clutches, and drive belts, which are not covered by the warranty anyway, that the customer has the right to use aftermarket parts.
 

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When I wanted my dealer to install the UUC Short Shifter the area GM representative was at the dealership. The GM rep told my service writer that because the shifter was outside of the transmission it would NOT affect my warranty. The dealer wanted too much money to do the install so I installed it elsewhere but my warranty is intact.

My dealer is installing my UUC flywheel and the warranty will be intact. .
ICE why don't you find out and use Darkman's dealer?
Problem solved:highfive:
 

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1959 Cadillac, 1980 Cadillac,Former 2005 CTS-V; now a 2009 V
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Discussion Starter #12
yeah i was just going to ask that:

darkman: i've got a few minor problems with the V that i was letting 'build up' before i take it to the dealer (small things like: one of the rear interior panels is loose and hanging down, two of the tire pressure monitors are showing "- -", emergency brake does not engage, etc.)... which dealership would you recommend? do you have a contact over there? someone that you know that's 'cool'? i called the 4 dealerships in the houston area a few months ago, and decided to take it to mcginnis because they're the only ones that said they'd give me a loaner car :-/ (i only had to pay tax for it, which was like $7/day...not bad at all).

soooo yeah. someone who's done it, please tell me everything i should just go ahead and do. name components too... like...B&B shifter, etc.

as far as the clutch goes, i want to have a 'stock' 'feel'... something that i know a lot of these clutches don't give (i want to be able to ease off the clutch the same way the stock clutch does)
 
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UUC makes a great 18lb lightwieght flywheel and top of the line short shifter. they are about 2 weeks away from a performance clutch that is sure to be top shelf as well. let me know if you are interested, i will have all the info on the clutch later this week.
 

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yeah i was just going to ask that:

darkman: i've got a few minor problems with the V that i was letting 'build up' before i take it to the dealer (small things like: one of the rear interior panels is loose and hanging down, two of the tire pressure monitors are showing "- -", emergency brake does not engage, etc.)... which dealership would you recommend? do you have a contact over there? someone that you know that's 'cool'? i called the 4 dealerships in the houston area a few months ago, and decided to take it to mcginnis because they're the only ones that said they'd give me a loaner car :-/ (i only had to pay tax for it, which was like $7/day...not bad at all).

soooo yeah. someone who's done it, please tell me everything i should just go ahead and do. name components too... like...B&B shifter, etc.

as far as the clutch goes, i want to have a 'stock' 'feel'... something that i know a lot of these clutches don't give (i want to be able to ease off the clutch the same way the stock clutch does)
My dealer is Tom Peacock Cadillac at 15480 I-45 North, which is on the feeder road just north of Airtex road. My service writer is Darrell McCormick. Every person that I have dealt with at this dealership has been both courteous and personable.

I have, however, worked deliberately to establish a good relationship with this dealership by: (a) letting them do the periodic maintenance (oil changes, tire rotation, and inspections) which has allowed to get to know the service writer under low-stress (non-warranty) circumstances; (b) buying parts from them such as the components of a spare tire kit (they discounted the 5th rim) which has allowed me to get to know their parts personnel; (c) buying my extended warranty from them albeit at price negotiated using internet alternatives as leverage.

It sounds like your list of small stuff should fall under your warranty. I am confident that Tom Peacock can fix all that for you. They like new customers.

With respect to your situation on the clutch, it seems to me that if you want a stock clutch with a lighweight flywheel you need only show up with a UUC flywheel (from Lindsay) and asked them to install it in conjunction with a Stock Clutch Kit that you would purchase from them. If you want a better shifter I would recommend you also show up with a UUC Shifter & Bushings (also from Lindsay) and have them install it at the same time. They apparantly do not mind these aftermarket parts coming from other sources because they cannot supply them anyway.

On the other hand, if you really want/need an aftermarket clutch in anticipation of future engine modifications or an intention to punish the clutch you are in a position to good "set up" the need for this with the dealership. Specifically, if you ask the dealership to render an opinion on the condition of your current clutch it seems likely that they will tell you: (a) it needs replacement; and (b) the warranty will not cover it. At that point your logical response becomes "Well if I am going to pay for a new clutch anyway, I want an aftermarket clutch because I need a clutch that will last more than 15,500k miles." I think the dealer would be in a poor position to insist that you buy another stock clutch at that point. (I suspect, but cannot know, that your clutch failed early because the previous owner either abused it, or rode the clutch. Many premature clutch failures are not caused by hot rodding, but rather by conservative drivers that use the clutch pedal as a foot rest.)

There is also the remote possiblity that they would cover the clutch under warranty, but I would not count on it.

Additionally, while it makes sense to address the clutch and shifter at the same time because there is an overlap in labor costs, I would not explore other aftermarket modifications at the same time because the dealership may balk (in terms of warranty survival) at the prospect of wholesale modifications. (I have discussed a Corsa exhaust with Tom Peacock because they sell and support that modification. I have not asked about headers though.)

Finally, I do not know what the deal is on loaner cars at Tom Peacock. They offered me once but I waited for the car instead. They are going to provide a loaner car in September (they get "unbusy" right after Labor Day) when I have my new clutch/flywheel installed even though I did not ask for one. I did not inquire about cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
so i should do tom peacock? ok... will do. only reason i'm so determined that i need a rental car is that i'm a good half hour drive from the dealer, and probably work close to an hour away, so it's imperative i have a car :(

should i ask to see Darrel McCormick? should i say i know you and that you suggested him?

also, as far as getting the flywheel, short shifter, etc... i was going to have my friend's shop do it, because they specialize in LS engines, and work on Mustangs, Corvettes, and Vipers all day long, they even have two Ford GTs that are always having work done on them, and I know and trust the guy that owns the shop. Also I know he won't rip me off on labor. Parts i was going to buy myself (more than likely from Lindsay, because i've heard a lot about them, and i want to give them a shot at pricing, customer service, etc.), but i want to make sure the dealers would know what they're doing. would they warranty the WORK they do? if the shifter's loose, etc. a few weeks afterward would they cover it?

yeah i was going to just do clutch and shifter, but i wanted to do the flywheel at the same time :( should i not worry about the slave cylinder?

exhaust, headers, etc. are not something i have either the time, desire, or resources, to take care of now.

ultimately what i want to build up is a relationship with the dealer, where they (or someone in service) knows me, and i know them, so i can call them and say "hey *whoever*, what's up. my car's broken, can i bring it in?" "sure thing man, bring it by!" kind of thing.

september is when i would be taking the car to them. and i hope i could get a loaner car then.

i'm going to have to drive to the woodlands today, so should i maybe stop by tom peacock and talk to them today about the warranty issues, and maybe schedule a time to bring the car in? if they can do it today and give me a loaner, i'll do that in a heartbeat...

now the shifter, flywheel, and clutch is going to have to wait a few weeks :-/
 

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so i should do tom peacock? ok... will do. only reason i'm so determined that i need a rental car is that i'm a good half hour drive from the dealer, and probably work close to an hour away, so it's imperative i have a car :(

should i ask to see Darrel McCormick? should i say i know you and that you suggested him?

also, as far as getting the flywheel, short shifter, etc... i was going to have my friend's shop do it, because they specialize in LS engines, and work on Mustangs, Corvettes, and Vipers all day long, they even have two Ford GTs that are always having work done on them, and I know and trust the guy that owns the shop. Also I know he won't rip me off on labor. Parts i was going to buy myself (more than likely from Lindsay, because i've heard a lot about them, and i want to give them a shot at pricing, customer service, etc.), but i want to make sure the dealers would know what they're doing. would they warranty the WORK they do? if the shifter's loose, etc. a few weeks afterward would they cover it?

yeah i was going to just do clutch and shifter, but i wanted to do the flywheel at the same time :( should i not worry about the slave cylinder?

exhaust, headers, etc. are not something i have either the time, desire, or resources, to take care of now.

ultimately what i want to build up is a relationship with the dealer, where they (or someone in service) knows me, and i know them, so i can call them and say "hey *whoever*, what's up. my car's broken, can i bring it in?" "sure thing man, bring it by!" kind of thing.

september is when i would be taking the car to them. and i hope i could get a loaner car then.

i'm going to have to drive to the woodlands today, so should i maybe stop by tom peacock and talk to them today about the warranty issues, and maybe schedule a time to bring the car in? if they can do it today and give me a loaner, i'll do that in a heartbeat...

now the shifter, flywheel, and clutch is going to have to wait a few weeks :-/
Yes, I would stop by and see McCormick at Tom Peacock about your existing warrany issues but not the clutch since you are going have it done elsewhere. You can find out their policy on loaner cars at the same time.

Assuming that you have the clutch/flywheel/shifter done by another shop then Tom Peacock, or any other dealer for that matter, cannot be expected to make adjustments on it free of charge. However, if you have a relationship with Tom Peacock you at least have my case as an example where the dealership allowed aftermarket clutch parts to coexist with a warranty. You do not need my name at this point, but you might mention that the dealer ship recommendation came from the Caddillac forum. I have frequently referred to the Forum as my source of information.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
yeah well obviously if the dealer doesn't do the install of the flywheel, clutch, and short shifter, i wouldn't hold that against them, lol. i meant if they install it (which i may have them do, to kind of help build up a relationship, you know) that i'd expect them to warranty the work.

any work i have done at my friend's shop i KNOW will be warrantied, but i may bite the bullet and pay a little more to have the dealership do it, just so we can work together a bit and build up that relationship... HOWEVER, i want you to tell me (convince me) that they know what they're doing, and i'm not going to get a car back with a loose shifter or anything :p
 

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yeah well obviously if the dealer doesn't do the install of the flywheel, clutch, and short shifter, i wouldn't hold that against them, lol. i meant if they install it (which i may have them do, to kind of help build up a relationship, you know) that i'd expect them to warranty the work.

any work i have done at my friend's shop i KNOW will be warrantied, but i may bite the bullet and pay a little more to have the dealership do it, just so we can work together a bit and build up that relationship... HOWEVER, i want you to tell me (convince me) that they know what they're doing, and i'm not going to get a car back with a loose shifter or anything :p
Well they seem to know what they are doing, but I have not had them do anything complex yet. I will know more by the middle of September once they do my clutch/flywheel install. At this point I am committed to that dealership and if they make a mistake I will have to let them fix it. I will not change dealerships unless and until they make a mistake and refuse to make good on it. At this point I do not anticipate that happening because they seem to be competent and are certainly courteous. Bottom line is my recommendation is based on the facts that I have already provided, but comes with no bullteproof guaranty. Life involves uncertainty, what else can I say.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
yeah i don't expect a guarantee, but you said exactly what i was hoping you would: that you haven't let them do anything complex yet, but what they HAVE done, SO far, has been good.

I'm leaving the office right now, going to see what they say... i'll let you know.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
OK so i spoke to McCormick; spoke to him briefly about the warrantied items, and then a bit more about the aftermarket stuff (flywheel, shifter, and clutch specifically). He said he had a guy that was coming in September (and he mentioned your name) to get that done, and that he'd already put a shifter on.

I said yes, that same person he's referring to is the one that referred me here and to him, because Tom Peacock has such a good reputation with customer service and reliability.

Anyway what he suggested I do though, was go to McGinning, on I10, because it's a lot closer to where I work, and he said chances are he wouldn't be able to get me a loaner because they only have 8, and they save those for cars that are getting totally reworked, not just a few warrantied items (which i agreed with him on, it makes sense). He said anything that he can do, McGinnis will do just as well.

Soooo i think what i'm going to do is wait till you get your shifter, flywheel, etc. done, and then hopefully you can tell me how the process went, and maybe we can meet up so you can take me for a drive in it? (i'd like to see the difference in acceleration with the flywheel), and also i'd like to just see how the shifter feels (with the car off and emergency brake on of course), if that's OK with you.

maybe we can do that at a 'meet' or something. which reminds me, when are we all going to get together...
 
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