Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
2003 Cadillac CTS, 2005 Cadillac STS4 1SG
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
NOt sure if anoyne knows or not, but when you have chipped buttons on our navigation, and the dealer fixes it, does the dealer send out YOUR nav unit to be repaired or do they replace it completely??

Ok this next part was confusing let me restate:

I have an early 2003 with navigation. I have no clock display. I thought that if you had a chipped button, the dealership would replace your radio with a new one. I was then confused becuase I still had no clock in my display, even though by that time, the 03 navigation units had switched to ones with a clock in them. This is why I got curious as to why I still had no clock, whether somehow I randomly got a unit AGAIN with no clock display OR they refurnished my existing unit to fix the button. Them refurbishing my original unit makes sense now as to why I still have no clock and as to why there is a nice gap now between one of the buttons and light is coming through from behiind the button. I showed them and told them about the clock issue, hopefully now they will give me a new one.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
2014 SRX AWD Platinum Ice/2010 CTS Sedan 3.6 AWD Silver
Joined
·
644 Posts
I was following you pretty well until that last sentence ...

-GT
 

·
Registered
2003 Cadillac CTS, 2005 Cadillac STS4 1SG
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Is it the same unit as the one I had? Or a differnt refurbished unit?
 

·
Cadillac Technician
none
Joined
·
11,051 Posts
When someone comes in complaining about a finish problem on their radio here is what I do.

First, you get ONE unit. If you wear out the buttons by using fingernails or armor-all that makes the finish peel, I replace it once and let you know that you should stop doing whatever it is that made the buttons peel and flake.
They are painted plastic and won't stand for much abuse.

If you leave the car it has to be overnight, if you don't want to wait, I would order it and tell you when it comes in. I get the part number off the unit and call my supplier. They ship me a refurbished unit overnight (that someone else sent back).
When the new one comes in, I swap them out, set up your new one and make sure it's working the way it's supposed to. I set up the clock and adjust it for the local time zone.

Then I send back your unit which the supplier then goes through to make sure it's "up to snuff", they then ship your unit to someone else after it's gone through and gets a new faceplate.

Which button has excessive light bleeding from behind it?
 

·
Registered
The Mighty Kael, 2004 Black CTS, Every Option
Joined
·
2,432 Posts
i hate to break this to you, but there is a serious wear defect in the buttons on the nav unit, on mine the nav button and info button (i hjardly ever use the info button) both have chip in the raised edge on the left. its very odd

I was thinking of bringing it in cause of the whtie plastic that shows underneath.

of note, for a quick fix a black sharpy will color the white plastic and keep light from shining through. you can see it if you are about one inch from the thing.
 

·
Cadillac Technician
none
Joined
·
11,051 Posts
If someone at GM tells me to replace them everytime I certainly will.
Currently our policy is you get one under warranty for worn buttons.

I didn't design and build the radios, I was just telling everyone the policy that most dealers are going to follow.
 

·
Registered
2003 CTS Manual Trans., '93 STS
Joined
·
3,035 Posts
I wonder if it's a problem with just the black (Ebony) face. My pewter face still looks like new at 3 years old. I'm pushing buttons every day on it.
 

·
Registered
2003 Cadillac CTS, 2005 Cadillac STS4 1SG
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
thanks guys for the info, ody, mine is a 3.2, never used armor all in it and am very careful with my car but my ''next track'' button chipped eventually.

ewill3rd, thanks for the information. My unit being refurbished might explain why I am excessive backlight coming from 2 of my buttons. The excssive backlight is behind the ''info'' button and the button below it. Its almost like its missing something to keep the light from showing through the cracks between the buttons. I always thought that my replaced unit was new so I was confused why there was still no clock and that button gap. They have tried to fix the gap 2-3 differnt times to no avail.

Hopefully this time my unit will look fine and have a clock, im really crossing my fingers for a clock unit as that will make my decision to throw in my 05 cluster much easier!
 

·
Registered
2003 CTS Manual Trans., '93 STS
Joined
·
3,035 Posts
It may not be displaying the time on the Nav if you have the IP clock. The car is smart enough to know what hardware in on the databus. You may want to upgrade the IP first. I'll give it better than even odds that the clock on the Nav appears when you do. My old Nav (that Shaft now has) had a 2/02 build date, and it displayed the time (I installed my '04 IP at the same time).
 

·
Registered
2003 Cadillac CTS, 2005 Cadillac STS4 1SG
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
odysseus said:
It may not be displaying the time on the Nav if you have the IP clock. The car is smart enough to know what hardware in on the databus. You may want to upgrade the IP first. I'll give it better than even odds that the clock on the Nav appears when you do. My old Nav (that Shaft now has) had a 2/02 build date, and it displayed the time (I installed my '04 IP at the same time).
the thing is, i did replace the IP and no clock showed. I left it in there for a bit to see if the car woudl reconize it after a while, but did nothing. IP worked fine, sensed temp guage, but no clock display. I went on Ebay and found a random sampling of 2003 CTS's, and many of them with nav HAD a clock in the nav and in the IP also. So that tells me its seperate. I showed these samplings to my service guy. Told him they have it I dont, if my nav needs to be replaced, i told him I want one with a clock.
 

·
Registered
2003 CTS Manual Trans., '93 STS
Joined
·
3,035 Posts
That's very odd. I wonder if the digital display is an option that can be enabled with a Tech2, like XM display screens.
 

·
Registered
2003 Cadillac CTS, 2005 Cadillac STS4 1SG
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
odysseus said:
That's very odd. I wonder if the digital display is an option that can be enabled with a Tech2, like XM display screens.
i was wondering that also. If its just a software thing. I have the little rectangular box where the display is supposed to be, but the box is just empty.
 

·
Cadillac Technician
none
Joined
·
11,051 Posts
I have gotten radios back from our supplier with damage to the buttons.
I ordered another unit that came without any problems.

As for the clock issue, I think I have noticed some that display the clock on the nav screen when it's turned off and some that don't. I never paid attention to a pattern of why they do or don't. I'll start to look for that though, remind me periodically and I'll see.
 

·
Registered
CTS
Joined
·
558 Posts
ewill3rd said:
First, you get ONE unit. If you wear out the buttons by using fingernails or armor-all that makes the finish peel, I replace it once and let you know that you should stop doing whatever it is that made the buttons peel and flake.
They are painted plastic and won't stand for much abuse.
:annoyed:

Excuse me, but shouldn't the buttons have been engineered better in the first place???

Are you telling me that the buttons aren't designed to be pushed?

How come the black paint doesn't chip off any other buttons in any other car?

I really like these:


 

·
Cadillac Technician
none
Joined
·
11,051 Posts
I am really flattered that you think I designed it.
However, you are sadly mistaken.

I don't make GM's policies either.
I don't have the luxury of being able to decide what GM will do for you. I was just telling you what most dealership's standard operating procedure is (including ours). Bear in mind it's not limited to that, if it's an obvious defect and the car is still under warranty, we will happliy take care of it for you even if we have to replace 20 radios. If it's obvious that you use a ball peen hammer to change the station, you are SOL.

I have a unit in my 3 year old Trailblazer that looks as good as new.
I have had customers come in with the buttons trashed in a year due to abuse. Do I think everyone abuses their radios... no sir. I named two things that cause rapid wear on the buttons. Not sure how that makes me responsible for the buttons on everyone's radio.
 

·
Registered
2003 Cadillac CTS, 2005 Cadillac STS4 1SG
Joined
·
2,043 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
ewill3rd said:
I am really flattered that you think I designed it.
However, you are sadly mistaken.
I don't make GM's policies either.
I don't have the luxury of being able to decide what GM will do for you. I was just telling you what most dealership's standard operating procedure is (including ours). Bear in mind it's not limited to that, if it's an obvious defect and the car is still under warranty, we will happliy take care of it for you even if we have to replace 20 radios. If it's obvious that you use a ball peen hammer to change the station, you are SOL.
I have a unit in my 3 year old Trailblazer that looks as good as new.
I have had customers come in with the buttons trashed in a year due to abuse. Do I think everyone abuses their radios... no sir. I named two things that cause rapid wear on the buttons. Not sure how that makes me responsible for the buttons on everyone's radio.
ewill3rd, what will happen once our warranties are up?? We are going to have to pay out of our pockets for a known issue?

Its great we have a Cadillac tech on this board we can ask for info about various things. It really helps. Thank you!
 

·
Registered
2009 CTS-V
Joined
·
2,018 Posts
Ewill, I'm glad your'e here. Don't let anyone spin you up. Thanks for the input. If someone wants a bmw or Lex, go get it.
 

·
Registered
CTS
Joined
·
558 Posts
ewill3rd said:
I am really flattered that you think I designed it.
However, you are sadly mistaken.
I don't make GM's policies either.
I don't have the luxury of being able to decide what GM will do for you. I was just telling you what most dealership's standard operating procedure is (including ours). Bear in mind it's not limited to that, if it's an obvious defect and the car is still under warranty, we will happliy take care of it for you even if we have to replace 20 radios. If it's obvious that you use a ball peen hammer to change the station, you are SOL.
I have a unit in my 3 year old Trailblazer that looks as good as new.
I have had customers come in with the buttons trashed in a year due to abuse. Do I think everyone abuses their radios... no sir. I named two things that cause rapid wear on the buttons. Not sure how that makes me responsible for the buttons on everyone's radio.
Come on...I never thought for a moment you designed these buttons.
:)

I know it is some GM engineer (or a team of engineers) that didn't think things through...

Fact is, the paint chips off the buttons as easy as a $2 whore in a frat house.

Bad design. Bad engineering.

Also, my dealer told me it is a known defect. I'm on my 2nd unit, and I've been told I can expect the same thing to happen in another 10k miles (unless of course I don't push any buttons).

dqw1 said:
Ewill, I'm glad your'e here. Don't let anyone spin you up. Thanks for the input. If someone wants a bmw or Lex, go get it.
Sorry. I don't want to spin anyone up. I don't know, but maybe my standards are too high.

I just don't think it is acceptable for black paint to easily chip off buttons.

I don't think it is acceptable for a $15,000 Chevy, and I certainly don't think it is acceptable for a $44,000 Cadillac.

Finally, I don't think it is acceptable for me dealer to say you get one unit, and thats it. That is bullsh__. If the paint keeps chipping, then they need to keep replacing...
:)

Kael said:
i hate to break this to you, but there is a serious wear defect in the buttons on the nav unit, on mine the nav button and info button (i hjardly ever use the info button) both have chip in the raised edge on the left. its very odd

I was thinking of bringing it in cause of the whtie plastic that shows underneath.

of note, for a quick fix a black sharpy will color the white plastic and keep light from shining through. you can see it if you are about one inch from the thing.
You are correct. This is a serious defect with the Nav Unit.
 

·
Cadillac Technician
none
Joined
·
11,051 Posts
It's obvious, silver, that some people have the ability to twist anyone's words into what they want to believe someone told them.

Since I was not there I can't say that your dealership didn't tell you that it's a "known defect", and even if they did say it, it's known to them and not anything GM has ever said. I could also be mistaken in saying that I have ever seen GM put those words in print "known defect" except maybe for a campaign that actually is a known defect.
Maybe it is a "design that is prone to failure" or something that we see a lot of.

The one unit thing is a basic rule. Dealers are empowered to do more than that and even take care of you even outside of the vehicle's regular warranty. (with limitations)
They aren't going to do it if you jump up and down crying about how everyone knows it's a problem and you'd best be taken care of or you are going to cry like a little baby to everyone that will listen to you.
Here is a thought, how about showing your dealers some respect? See from a techs standpoint, customers treat the dealership like we designed and built the thing. The fact of the matter is we sell a product manufactured by a company, just like any other retail chain. One difference is that we service what we sell, unlike Wal Mart, or some other notable retailer who just gives you another piece of junk that some Chinese guy got paid 2 dollars to build.
If you have a problem with your car and you treat me with a bit of common decency, I'll do everything in my power to make sure you are satisfied with your GM product. If you get in my face, start telling me that it's a "known defect" and I'd best take care of it, personally I would send you to the next dealer up the road. Granted I am not the manager and he has the final say or he can talk to the Area Manager, but the same goes. If you go in his office crying like a baby or you go in explaining that you have a problem and you'd like to see if we can help you out you are going to get a different response from him, and on up the chain.

It's easy to sit in an office chair and criticize the design of this feature and that component, but when you have a hundred people breathing down your neck for you to design a better, easier, cheaper component to put in a mass produced vehicle or you lose your job it's quite a different story. Granted sometimes GM engineers don't make choices that suit your tastes but in a nice big world marketplace you have plenty of choices if you don't like Cadillac.

Now all that being said, is it a perfect design? Most certainly not.
Have I seen problem vehicles? Yes.
Since I replace about 15 GM radios a month in various vehicles I think I have a pretty fair grip on what the problems are that the radios have. I can also tell when a faceplate has been abused or misused.
That gives me the benefit of knowing what NOT to do with my own radio.
The one replacement is designed to give people who don't understand the sensitivity of the finish an opportunity to "change their habits" to help prevent further damage since most salespeople don't take the time to tell you not to use finish enhancing agents or the finish will flake off, and to avoid using your fingernails to push on the buttons (for the ladies with the manicures ;) )

I came here to help, I like to help people on the internet and I have been doing it for about 12 years now in various places. I recently joined to help YOU folks out. I realize that everyone gets nervous that when they actually get someone to help that one guy can drive them away by being obnoxious. (I realize that your comments have been civil, just argumentative so don't think I am calling YOU obnoxious ;) )
I don't have much spare time and I don't want to waste it trying to defend some engineer's choice. I am not going to do that.

Bottom line, if you take care of your car, support your dealership by letting them maintain your car and not just come in when you want something for free, and treat them with kindness and respect, I think you'll find they will go out of their way to make you happy.
If you come blasting in like a tornado of hatred spewing dogma about how our product sucks and we are all retarded, don't be surprised if they ask you not to come back... which ANY business has the right to do.

I appreciate the kind words from lots of people I have spoken to here.
That's what keeps me coming back. I am not going to become a target for abuse just because I work for Cadillac.
I am more than happy to offer my perspective, but just because it doesn't agree with what you may believe doesn't mean it's wrong. You are free to disagree with my point of view, that's why the USA is such a great place. You get to disagree.

I hope this short novel has cleared up any confusion about my earlier comments. If there is still a sticking point for anyone I'll be happy to offer more information.

In fact most of these units are not built by GM at all, but outsourced to various electronics manufacturers. GM just buys them and installs them in the car. Maybe that was a mistake on GM's part, but if you want to throw stones at someone, find out who actually built the radio and blame them.

In the meantime, if they are really messed up, bring them to me and I'll make sure it gets fixed.
;)
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top