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2012 CTS Performance 3.6
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Coming up on 100K, so figured time to change spark plugs. All 3 plugs on the right side had oil in the spark plug tubes. Checked AllData for repair, and it requires changing the cylinder head as they are not replaceable. AllData also states that it is caused by porous spots during the manufacturing process. Does anyone know if GM/Cadillac is making good on this known manufacturing defect out of warranty?

TIA
Glen
 

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'14 CTS-V LongRoof; Audi RS6 Avant; '16 ATS-V Sedan gone; '10 CTS LongRoof gone
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Nope.

Post more, lurk less.
 

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08 CTS DI
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3,401 Posts
Coming up on 100K, so figured time to change spark plugs. All 3 plugs on the right side had oil in the spark plug tubes. Checked AllData for repair, and it requires changing the cylinder head as they are not replaceable. AllData also states that it is caused by porous spots during the manufacturing process. Does anyone know if GM/Cadillac is making good on this known manufacturing defect out of warranty?

TIA
Glen
First you have to make sure the oil is not leaking into the tube as a result of the seals in the valve cover. As for replacing the cylinder head as a result, that's your call. If the oil source is not from the gaskets, then consider addressing the problem in a more realistic manner on a perfectly running motor. Get the RTV grey sealant used to seal the timing cover.

Remove the valve cover, get a good cleaner, like brake cleaner that evaporates as it cleans. Use it to clean around the tube joint at the cylinder head. Apply a vacuum to the tube (or not) and spray the cleaner into the joint again in an effort to try and draw it into the tube to flush out any remaining oil in the joint, then force the sealant into the joint around the tube, applying a little vacuum (or not) to help pull it into the breach area, followed by more packing for a complete seal at the joint.

I had two tubes do that with one a good bit more than the other which needed to be addressed. I performed the above procedure without using vacuum and without being as thorough as I normally would and so far it has held up well over a year. I didn't find out about the recommendation to replace the cylinder head until afterwards which I would not have done without a driveability problem anyway.

A few months back a 2012 owner with this problem insisted on replacing the cylinder head after the mechanic suggested the above instead. The mechanic posted here after the cylinder head replacement was followed by several engine codes that would not go away, even after removing the head and double checking his and the machine shop prep work and reinstalling it to no avail. That was 5 months ago and I still have not seen a conclusion in the thread associated.

I bet oil in at least one of the tubes is a common presentation on as much as half of these motors above 100k miles. I find it interesting no consideration is given to the possibility the glue job used on the tubes might not be all that great considering the leak appears to be the result of oil leaking past the joint where the seals are in good condition. Heck, you might be hard pressed to find a 100k mile 3.6L that doesn't have some small sign of an oil leak at one of the many sealant closed joints on the motor, particularly one of the bottom corners of the timing cover.
 

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2011 CTS4 Performance Coupe
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120 Posts
I just had this happen a few weeks ago, on the right (passenger) side as well.

I dropped it off, picked up a loaner, and they called me when it was done. My GMEPP paid out for the repair and the loaner. The bill came to $444. They replaced the bank 1 valve cover gasket, spark plug tube seals, and the intake gasket.
 

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2012 CTS Performance 3.6
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2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the quick replies. I'm going to replace valve cover gaskets and the associated tube seals and see if that fixes the oil leak. After reading about the porous castings, I just jumped to the conclusion that it is the problem, maybe not.
 

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2002 F55 STS, 2014 Explorer XLT, F-150
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80,426 Posts
FWIW, Not your engine, but similar plug wells - the Northstar 4.6 V-8 is known for oil in one or more plug wells - after quite a few years/high mileage. It's the plug well O-ring seals that weep over time. Not a problem - oil is an insulator. If the plug well(s) are overflowing, that's a problem; a dozen drops in the bottom of the well - don't sweat it.

The 1" black O-rings, Northstar gasket set.
 

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08 CTS DI
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I just had this happen a few weeks ago, on the right (passenger) side as well.

I dropped it off, picked up a loaner, and they called me when it was done. My GMEPP paid out for the repair and the loaner. The bill came to $444. They replaced the bank 1 valve cover gasket, spark plug tube seals, and the intake gasket.
When I see repair rates like this it gets me seriously thinking about opening up a Cadillac only repair shop. Nearly $500 to install $30 worth of gaskets (that's for a complete set), which is an hour job tops with the proper tools. I could pay my mechanics top dollar, and still make a good profit as well as give the customer a good savings using OE parts.


Wait, I just realized they only replaced one side, "Oh yeah!" as Duff Man would say, they got paid. Probably scheduled a barbecue afterwards.
 

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2013 Cadillac CTS 3.6 Sport Luxury
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1,855 Posts
Joseph. My mechanic did exactly that 10 years ago. He never had a car he did not fix.

And I pay decent rates - but that is not the best thing. He is so sought for so he is always extremely busy. Have always 5 cars in - everything from oil change to change of engine. So it means he is extremely fast and no time for chit-chat and waiting for parts. Last time I had it for service he fixed gear oil, engine oil, cleaning throttle, MAF, flushing valve covers, looked on a tail light, updated software for drl in one day. I was on a business trip to UK and came back same night 0130 hours. He was still working - so could pick up the car. Talk about opening hours...

With his rumour he has become a Corvette specialist. Sometimes when the only official dealer in my country has a problem - they go with the car to his workshop and have it fixed.

Summer tires on now!




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08 CTS DI
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Joseph. My mechanic did exactly that 10 years ago. He never had a car he did not fix.

And I pay decent rates - but that is not the best thing. He is so sought for so he is always extremely busy. Have always 5 cars in - everything from oil change to change of engine. So it means he is extremely fast and no time for chit-chat and waiting for parts...
Where I'm from, that kind of busy means you're very good and reasonable at what you do. It's often a struggle to get a quality repair and a good rate at the same time, which is what inspired me to learn how to repair my own vehicles. Paying full price for missing and loose transmission bolts after a clutch job, and paying for an hour of diagnostics and only receiving the time it took to pull the codes, resulting in them (Chevy) diagnosing the wrong part out of laziness, costing $200, instead of the correct part costing $15 was enough for me.

I've mentioned before, a private/independent mechanic can make good money if he/she is smart about the services provided and when you do good work, you can do it at your own pace, because the customer is going to be happy in the end and willing to wait for all those reasons.

The more complicated cars get and the more flat rate costs increase, the more earning potential individuals who turn wrenches independently will have, like the $450 single valve cover gasket replacement above that I know from personal experience takes an hour, or less to do, both sides. Who wouldn't be willing to pay an independent half that, or less for an equal, or better outcome. I saw a news segment a couple weeks ago about the demand for knowledgeable mechanics being on the rise.
 

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2013 Cadillac CTS 3.6 Sport Luxury
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I always read your posts with interest because it provides good info as you had the things in your hands. Good even for me when I get the problem myself and need to explain my mechanic and check the job afterwards.
It is sad to see how service is turned into pure money machines.
The only reason I keep a Toyota running for my wife is because their service level and technical level is the best I have experienced. Can't believe the white collars in the Cadillac headquarter can't see the connection between this and long term sale figures.



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