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Discussion Starter #21
zonie77 said:
Just curious...did you pull it out the top or drop the cradle? Not sure from your posts.
I had no choice;but to drop it out the bottom . Please respond if you have ever sucessfully (actually done it) lifted 4.6 motor out the top of a 1997-1999 deville! Before removing the first bolt: I spoke with countless caddy certified mechanics that have removed engines many times on flatrate(minutes saved is money in there pocket) And they all agreed that the only way to remove engine or transmission; is to remove entire craddle including steering gear,axles,ect. I beleive,and I may be wrong that the 2000-up models are differant . I looked at the manuals,looked at the car,but short of taking a cuting torch to cross-over pipe which runs under oil pan(I took only drop oil pan about 1" ) The worst part is the wiring, the absence of major connectors,is unexcusalbe. (if you've done it you know what I mean.) I still haven't found out where the 4' long two wire connector(blue and yellow ) that comes out of the main anti-lock brake harness, goes . thanks jim g
 

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two members said taking it out the top was better. I think katshot was one, don't remember other. I didn't think there was a viable option. We dropped the cradle.
You're right about the cables. It indicates Caddy thinks the engine will outlast the car and that isn't always so.
 

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jimg said:
I had no choice;but to drop it out the bottom . Please respond if you have ever sucessfully (actually done it) lifted 4.6 motor out the top of a 1997-1999 deville! Before removing the first bolt: I spoke with countless caddy certified mechanics that have removed engines many times on flatrate(minutes saved is money in there pocket) And they all agreed that the only way to remove engine or transmission; is to remove entire craddle including steering gear,axles,ect. I beleive,and I may be wrong that the 2000-up models are differant . I looked at the manuals,looked at the car,but short of taking a cuting torch to cross-over pipe which runs under oil pan(I took only drop oil pan about 1" ) The worst part is the wiring, the absence of major connectors,is unexcusalbe. (if you've done it you know what I mean.) I still haven't found out where the 4' long two wire connector(blue and yellow ) that comes out of the main anti-lock brake harness, goes . thanks jim g
:banghead: :banghead:

I have have now installed either 19 or 20 nstars just losing count , but i can definatly say that pulling the motor out the bottom is the way to go.
It can be pulled out the top but some things I'll warn you about.

1. It will take at least 3 times longer to complete the job plus lots of extra frustration

2. You WILL break the HVAC box, it will happen just deal with it..

3. Your chances of breaking wiring, connectors, and other misc. parts is a whole lot higher

By the way , I can usually complete most nstar removal & instalations through the bottom of the car in about 12 to 14 hours but i'm still getting faster. Also helps to have a lift and the right tools.

If you look on www.alldatapro.com they have instuctions for removing the engine from the top but I do not recommend it:bighead:
 

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Discussion Starter #24
epanightmare said:
sounds like you didn't connect the harness to the driver side front wheel speed sensor hope that helps:rolleyes: ....
Okay, epanightmare; you were right! and Yes I was definetly wrong! (my wife loves to heard those words!) The 4 ft wire I spoke of; does go to lf wheel speed senor. However , that leaves me with another problem. I connected the wheel senor to a near twin wire that that happen to be with in 2" of the light green and yellow wire just under the master cylinder ,and It just so happen to fit exactly. To clarify ; I now need to know what the light green and yellow two wire connector,(located just under master cylinder ,agaist the booster. ) It come out of a 1'' wire mold loom. I have the anti-lock ,traction control,and the stability warning coming on. Codes tcs c1242 (abs) and tcs c1255 abs pump ground. any ideas thanks jim g
 

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jimg said:
Okay, epanightmare; you were right! and Yes I was definetly wrong! (my wife loves to heard those words!) The 4 ft wire I spoke of; does go to lf wheel speed senor. However , that leaves me with another problem. I connected the wheel senor to a near twin wire that that happen to be with in 2" of the light green and yellow wire just under the master cylinder ,and It just so happen to fit exactly. To clarify ; I now need to know what the light green and yellow two wire connector,(located just under master cylinder ,agaist the booster. ) It come out of a 1'' wire mold loom. I have the anti-lock ,traction control,and the stability warning coming on. Codes tcs c1242 (abs) and tcs c1255 abs pump ground. any ideas thanks jim g
OK here's what I found hope this helps.:bighead: :bonkers:

By the way the first thing I would check is the EBTCM (ABS pump) connector. When you pulled the lower coolant hose while removing the engine some coolant probably leak onto EBTCM and was probably still there when the motor was reinstalled and is causing a short at this terminal. pull the connector and use an air gun to dry out the coolant then reconnect the terminal then clear the codes.

DCT c1242 BPMV pump motor curcuit open.

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
The BPMV pump motor ground is supplied through a ground stud on the pump motor to a good ground.

CONDITION FOR SETTING THE DTC
DTC C1242 can be set when the pump relay is commanded OFF. A malfunction exists if the pump motor ground CKT 350 resistance is greater than 6900 ohms.

ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC SETS
A malfunction DTC is stored, ABS/TCS/ICCS is disabled and the ABS and traction control indicator lampsare turned ON. Vehicles with ICCS2 will display the STABILITY REDUCED message on the DIC.

CONDITIONS FOR CLEARING THE DTC
Condition for DTC is no longer present and scan tool clear DTC function is used. Fifty start cycles have passed with no DTCs detected.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
It is very important that a thorough inspection of the wiring and connectors be performed. Failure to carefully and fully inspect wiring and connectors may result in misdiagnosis, causing part replacement with reappearance of the malfunction. An intermittent malfunction can be caused by poor connections, broken insulation, or a wire that is broken inside the insulation.

TEST DESCRIPTION
The numbers below refer to step numbers on the diagnostic table.

  1. Checks for good pump motor ground.
  1. Checks for good pump motor ground through the BPMV.
DTC c1255 EBTCM internal malfunction, ABS/TCS/ICCS dissabled.

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
This DTC identifies a malfunction within the EBTCM.

CONDITION FOR SETTING THE DTC
DTC C1255 is set when an internal EBTCM malfunction exists.

ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC SETS
A malfunction DTC is stored, ABS/TCS/ICCS is disabled and the ABS and traction control indicator lamps are turned ON. Vehicles with ICCS2 will display the STABILITY REDUCED message on the DTC.

CONDITIONS FOR CLEARING THE DTC
Condition for DTC is no longer present and scan tool clear DTC function is used. Fifty start cycles have passed with no DTCs detected.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
When DTC C1255 is displayed on the scan tool, it will be followed by two more numbers which should be noted along with any other DTCs that may be displayed. The additional two numbers displayed with DTC C1255 are for aiding Engineering to determine the cause of the internal malfunction.

TEST DESCRIPTION
The numbers below refer to step numbers on the diagnostic table.

  1. Checks for EBTCM damage.
DCT c1255 dianostic chart.

1) Was the diagnostic system check peformed.
yes. go to step 2.
no . go to diagnostic system check.

2) Are any other DTC's present besides c1255
yes. Go to applicable DTC table.
no . go to step three.

3) 1.Turn the ignition switch to the off position.
2.Disconect the EBTCM.
3.Check for damaged, pushed out, or miswired terminals.
4.was any damage found.
yes. Go to step four.
no . go to step five.

4) Repair as necessary,Is the repair complete.

5) Replace EBTCM.:bonkers:
 

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Discussion Starter #26
epanightmare said:
OK here's what I found hope this helps.:bighead: :bonkers:

By the way the first thing I would check is the EBTCM (ABS pump) connector. When you pulled the lower coolant hose while removing the engine some coolant probably leak onto EBTCM and was probably still there when the motor was reinstalled and is causing a short at this terminal. pull the connector and use an air gun to dry out the coolant then reconnect the terminal then clear the codes.

DCT c1242 BPMV pump motor curcuit open.

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
The BPMV pump motor ground is supplied through a ground stud on the pump motor to a good ground.

CONDITION FOR SETTING THE DTC
DTC C1242 can be set when the pump relay is commanded OFF. A malfunction exists if the pump motor ground CKT 350 resistance is greater than 6900 ohms.

ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC SETS
A malfunction DTC is stored, ABS/TCS/ICCS is disabled and the ABS and traction control indicator lampsare turned ON. Vehicles with ICCS2 will display the STABILITY REDUCED message on the DIC.

CONDITIONS FOR CLEARING THE DTC
Condition for DTC is no longer present and scan tool clear DTC function is used. Fifty start cycles have passed with no DTCs detected.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
It is very important that a thorough inspection of the wiring and connectors be performed. Failure to carefully and fully inspect wiring and connectors may result in misdiagnosis, causing part replacement with reappearance of the malfunction. An intermittent malfunction can be caused by poor connections, broken insulation, or a wire that is broken inside the insulation.

TEST DESCRIPTION
The numbers below refer to step numbers on the diagnostic table.

  1. Checks for good pump motor ground.
  1. Checks for good pump motor ground through the BPMV.
DTC c1255 EBTCM internal malfunction, ABS/TCS/ICCS dissabled.

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
This DTC identifies a malfunction within the EBTCM.

CONDITION FOR SETTING THE DTC
DTC C1255 is set when an internal EBTCM malfunction exists.

ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC SETS
A malfunction DTC is stored, ABS/TCS/ICCS is disabled and the ABS and traction control indicator lamps are turned ON. Vehicles with ICCS2 will display the STABILITY REDUCED message on the DTC.

CONDITIONS FOR CLEARING THE DTC
Condition for DTC is no longer present and scan tool clear DTC function is used. Fifty start cycles have passed with no DTCs detected.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
When DTC C1255 is displayed on the scan tool, it will be followed by two more numbers which should be noted along with any other DTCs that may be displayed. The additional two numbers displayed with DTC C1255 are for aiding Engineering to determine the cause of the internal malfunction.

TEST DESCRIPTION
The numbers below refer to step numbers on the diagnostic table.

  1. Checks for EBTCM damage.
DCT c1255 dianostic chart.

1) Was the diagnostic system check peformed.
yes. go to step 2.
no . go to diagnostic system check.

2) Are any other DTC's present besides c1255
yes. Go to applicable DTC table.
no . go to step three.

3) 1.Turn the ignition switch to the off position.
2.Disconect the EBTCM.
3.Check for damaged, pushed out, or miswired terminals.
4.was any damage found.
yes. Go to step four.
no . go to step five.

4) Repair as necessary,Is the repair complete.

5) Replace EBTCM.:bonkers:
Thanks so much,again, I will check it tomorrow morning, I know for sure, the connector had some anti-freeze on it. "I be the dummy " I should have known it is a highly sensative connection. I take it, the light green and yellow wire I spoke of ; doesn't get connected to anything? thanks jim g
 

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jimg said:
Thanks so much,again, I will check it tomorrow morning, I know for sure, the connector had some anti-freeze on it. "I be the dummy " I should have known it is a highly sensative connection. I take it, the light green and yellow wire I spoke of ; doesn't get connected to anything? thanks jim g
the green and yellow probable dosn't go to anything, maybe a option your car dosn't have but is wired for.

let me know what you find..:)
 

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Yellow wires are related to SRS system!!
 

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Discussion Starter #29
jimg said:
Thanks so much,again, I will check it tomorrow morning, I know for sure, the connector had some anti-freeze on it. "I be the dummy " I should have known it is a highly sensative connection. I take it, the light green and yellow wire I spoke of ; doesn't get connected to anything? thanks jim g
Thanks to you ; My nightmare is over! It was the ground the pump.Everything's fine now!thanks one last time Jim g
 

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jimg said:
I had no choice;but to drop it out the bottom . Please respond if you have ever sucessfully (actually done it) lifted 4.6 motor out the top of a 1997-1999 deville! Before removing the first bolt: I spoke with countless caddy certified mechanics that have removed engines many times on flatrate(minutes saved is money in there pocket) And they all agreed that the only way to remove engine or transmission; is to remove entire craddle including steering gear,axles,ect. I beleive,and I may be wrong that the 2000-up models are differant . I looked at the manuals,looked at the car,but short of taking a cuting torch to cross-over pipe which runs under oil pan(I took only drop oil pan about 1" ) The worst part is the wiring, the absence of major connectors,is unexcusalbe. (if you've done it you know what I mean.) I still haven't found out where the 4' long two wire connector(blue and yellow ) that comes out of the main anti-lock brake harness, goes . thanks jim g
I dropped the cradle on my '95 Aurora (similar to STS) last weekend, and honest to god, it was the EASIEST FWD I have ever done. Every thing is very well laid out, heater hoses, wiring, etc. all was very easy to get to.
I took my time, but if I would have hurried, I could have had it ready to come out in about 1.5 hrs. (give or take for time to drain fluids) The only hard part I found was actually removing the car from the frame, as I tried it with jacks rather than my usual overhead winch. It was a bit tricky, but with a little help, it worked well.
The only FWD's I have done are the GM 3800 series I in a 1988 Delta 88 (two of these), a GM 3.1L in a 1989 Pont. GP, and a Quad Four (out and in about three times) from a 1991 Berretta GTZ. I would seriously do my Aurora over those three anyday. When these drivetrains were designed, someone was really thinking. Everything I tackle on this car amazes me on its design and layout. I am seriously impressed. Its actually fun to work on.
My amazement only grew as I dissasembled the engine down to the heads.
If I can only get it back together with my dream of a vin "9" 4.6 in place of the 4.0, I will be all set :D
 

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I know this thread is way outdated for this response, but I have a question!

I was driving on the highway and my abs and traction MIL came on. The codes are c1232 and c1255. Its snowy here in NY. Could it be that it is wet from the snow? Where is it located so I can check?

Any help is appreciated! This car is new to me. 98 deville.

doug







jimg said:
Thanks so much,again, I will check it tomorrow morning, I know for sure, the connector had some anti-freeze on it. "I be the dummy " I should have known it is a highly sensative connection. I take it, the light green and yellow wire I spoke of ; doesn't get connected to anything? thanks jim g
 
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