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There are enough YouTube videos of EV battery fires to keep anyone happy for hours. I like one of a man wading in ankle-deep water at a flooded charging station - plugging in his vehicle. Even the exploding smart phone and computer batteries get a bit of press.

Not that gasoline and LPG fueled vehicles don't have their scary stories, too.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's their own stupidity at work. Electrical (especially Li batt) fires are not extinguished by water.

Max
======================
OK - SO -
WHAT is the fire department supposed to bring to an EV fire?
and how much of it?
 

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2003 Deville Base
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======================
OK - SO -
WHAT is the fire department supposed to bring to an EV fire?
and how much of it?
Good question. Our apparatus carry water AND foam. What, if any, mechanism is there for auto manufacturers to alert every fire department on earth as to what they may face in a car fire? Is GM making an effort to tell first responders what to do if a Lyriq catches fire? I volunteer time with our local volunteer fire department. We train constantly. We have HazMat experts come in to do training. We do drills on what materials we might encounter--tires, shingles, PVC, magnesium, laminate flooring, MDF, OSB, and on and on. I invite Maximumkk to come on down here and ride with us and tell us what to do when we roll up on a fire call. Down here, in this heat (104 today) our firefighters carry an extra 40-70 pounds of gear on their backs. Just my own opinion but I don't think . Maximumkk could handle it.
 

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That's their own stupidity at work. Electrical (especially Li batt) fires are not extinguished by water.
Max
And how, exactly, would the fire fighters know that about a Tesla? Did Tesla make any effort to advise first responders what dangers a Tesla fire might encounter? What if the car is fully engulfed to the point you can't see badges or brand? If al the plastic melts and burns, it's a lot of black smoke even further obscuring the problem.
 

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When battery is overcharged or heated or damaged (crash, short circuit), the materials inside cn break down giving off o2, co, co2. Pressure builds up in a sealed environment which results in higher temps that feed back to the chemical breakdown.

The difficulty is the chemical break is occurring deep inside. The case sealant might be compromised, but the thick battery martial provides a sealed type environment that contains O2.

Ultimately, you have to kill the chemical breakdown by oooling everything down.

Creative thoughts:
  • mechanism to pull the battery apart
  • cooling channels with some mechanism to access
  • a very big yeti cooler

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 

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According to the story, the solution was to dig a pit and SUBMERGE the entire car in water. Tends to undermine the urban legend about water feeding the fire.

As a preventative measure, maybe we should cut to the chase and dump them all at sea ....
 

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Not to hyjack, well ok maybe to kinda hyjack. But put eyes afterward on the vid with the veteran who's been thwarted at every turn by agency's repeated leg sweep in attempting to accomplish --> his own <-- kidney transplant. These stories become even more stressful trying to differentiate between malicious intent v. malignant incompetence.
 

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Good question. Our apparatus carry water AND foam. What, if any, mechanism is there for auto manufacturers to alert every fire department on earth as to what they may face in a car fire? Is GM making an effort to tell first responders what to do if a Lyriq catches fire? I volunteer time with our local volunteer fire department. We train constantly. We have HazMat experts come in to do training. We do drills on what materials we might encounter--tires, shingles, PVC, magnesium, laminate flooring, MDF, OSB, and on and on. I invite Maximumkk to come on down here and ride with us and tell us what to do when we roll up on a fire call. Down here, in this heat (104 today) our firefighters carry an extra 40-70 pounds of gear on their backs. Just my own opinion but I don't think . Maximumkk could handle it.
And how, exactly, would the fire fighters know that about a Tesla? Did Tesla make any effort to advise first responders what dangers a Tesla fire might encounter? What if the car is fully engulfed to the point you can't see badges or brand? If al the plastic melts and burns, it's a lot of black smoke even further obscuring the problem.
After repeated attempts at using water, why didn't they switch methods if they're so well trained? I give respect to all first responders who face life and death to save our asses every day, but making this seem like it's the electrical car's fault is nonsense. Aviation firefighters deal with non standard materials. Teams in cities with major chemical plants are trained in those. You say you're trained in a wash of various types of fires. So why didn't these firefighters use their training to determine what this fire was and use the appropriate method after failing to extinguish the first couple of times, instead of repeatedly using the wrong one? Dropping into a pit of water doesn't seem like a standard procedure to me. Surely by now they would have been trained in how to deal with battery fires. These battery involved vehicles (hybrids, plug in, etc) have been on the road for a decade or more. That's not GM or Tesla's fault.

And if you google it, Tesla has a contact system specifically for firefighers to get ahold of them on how to deal with emergencies, while at the same time working with NFPA on firefighting standards.

And as an engineer I'd like you to sit down with me one day and design a skyscraper or highway bridge, I highly doubt you could handle it. Of course I couldn't be a firefigher. I've not taken your training, like you've not been trained to be an engineer. What I'm asking is why didn't those highly trained firefighers not use their experience and up-to-date training? Hell, after 20 years in my profession, I'm still learning. It's part of continuous development and competency. And required by law for engineers to stay up to date. I assume the same for firefighers.

I'm not intending to denigrate you or your profession, I would like to know why these firefighers appear to have done the same thing repeatedly only to fail repeatedly. Why didn't they know about the available resources? Maybe they did contact Tesla and they said drop into a pool?

Max
 

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thanks for the info on Tesla emergency pages. I guess what I objected to the most was choice of words--stupidity. If you had said "ignorance" or "not fully trained on EV's" I would have let it go. Calling firefighters stupid wasn't a good choice of words.
 

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Our fire departments have this one. Car lowered into container with a special liquid. Then the fire is out. Depending on the situation the car can stay inside for up to 24 hours. Works fine - but a bit more difficult than usual fire fighting.

 

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does that word mean fire eating or drinking or swallowing container? I speak german so thats how interpret it
 

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Our fire departments have this one. Car lowered into container with a special liquid. Then the fire is out. Depending on the situation the car can stay inside for up to 24 hours. Works fine - but a bit more difficult than usual fire fighting.

Oh look. . .. A big red yetI cooler!

That's probably halon or equiv bottles on the side. We use halon etc in data centers in order to keep water off electronics. Halon combines with O2 to remove it from the combustion chamber. 24 hours in the cooler to allow for battery to decompose enough to let Helton to get to every gram of battery.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
SO - I have a few questions -
will each and every fire station MUST be equipped with AT LEAST one of these units?

does it require a special new truck to carry and deploy it?

HOW MUCH are the TAX PAYERS going to be hit with? $100,000 each? more?

HOW MUCH does it COST to use this new contraption - recharge the halon tanks - etc?

WHO is going to PAY?
 

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2002 F55 STS, 2014 Explorer XLT, F-150s
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One of the operative terms here is "battery fire". By its very nature a battery fire will continue to full destruction of the battery because it's self-igniting as the battery literally eats itself alive - no oxygen required. The exotic metal sealed EV batteries are in a world of their own and it will take years to develop effective quick emergency procedures.

You can cut off oxygen to a petroleum or other combustibles fire and it dies out. Not so for a battery - it keeps on rekindling itself.

Metal (magnesium) fires are extinguished by both cooling (water) and smothering (powders). Not so for batteries.

We were extensively trained and drilled in submarine lead-acid battery fires and the bottom line was "try to disconnect it, cool it, and pray". BUT, fighting a lead-acid battery fire with salt water generates a LOT of chlorine gas. Deadly in its own right.
 

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SO - I have a few questions -
will each and every fire station MUST be equipped with AT LEAST one of these units?

does it require a special new truck to carry and deploy it?

HOW MUCH are the TAX PAYERS going to be hit with? $100,000 each? more?

HOW MUCH does it COST to use this new contraption - recharge the halon tanks - etc?

WHO is going to PAY?
Our fire departments have this one. Car lowered into container with a special liquid. Then the fire is out. Depending on the situation the car can stay inside for up to 24 hours. Works fine - but a bit more difficult than usual fire fighting.

how exactly do they get the car into the container?
 
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